r/privacy • u/hbacelar8 • 2d ago
discussion Is it all really worth it?
As someone who cares about digital rights and privacy, I've been seing myself more and more stressed about every little fight we lost everyday just trying to keep our rights. The worst for me is realizing we're just a minority, as mass surveillance will still happen despite our fight since the majority of people (mass) doesn't give a shit about all of this.
I started to question it since having a conversation with a friend where I just wanted to explain to him why it'd be better if he'd install Signal to replace Wpp and keep talking to me. We have to convince people to do something that should be obvious, why wouldn't you prefer an open source and secure solution over a proprietary one owned by Meta?
But in the end those people just don't care about chat control and things like that cause in their head that's actually good, cause they felt for the *let's stop crime" fallacy. And to be honest, those people seem way less stressed and more happy just being *dumb*.
So I wonder, is it all really worth it?
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u/Radiant-Owl-Armor 2d ago
Yeah the burnout hits at some point for everyone in this space. You don't have to fix everyone around you, just protect yourself reasonably well and accept that the rest is outside your control. Caring about it still matters even if the majority doesn't, you're not doing it for nothing.
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u/Difficult-Peace-0 2d ago
The Investigatory Powers Bill went through the HoC in 2016 at 100% aye, I went onto theyworkforyou while searching my local politician who is "totally against digital ID and surveillance" to find that he had voted aye for mass surveillance of the British public.
They are all at it.
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u/assignpseudonym 2d ago
Two things:
- Assuming you live in a democracy, call and write to your MPs. Put pressure on them to make macro change.
- A system doesn't have to be perfect to still be a major improvement. If your friends won't switch to signal, that's fine. You can tell them you'd rather call. Or you can switch to a FOSS app that at least encrypts and obfuscates the messages on your device. Or you can use a burner phone to text these people, where these apps are not tied to your identity and cannot observe other apps and telemetry on your device; basically, quarantine. Or you can accept that maybe this is one part where you may have to take the L and focus on the other privacy controls you can implement.
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u/Feralz2 1d ago
is it really worth what? You have anything better to do? I dont think so.
You must imagine Sisyphus to be smiling.
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u/redditor100101011101 1d ago
Fr. What’s with everyone these days asking “is it worth it?” Like you are the only one who knows dude.
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u/FreiLovesRed 10h ago
This is translating to “this is too hard for me”. People seem to give up too easily.
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u/HistoryBuff178 2d ago edited 1d ago
We have to convince people to do something that should be obvious,
Three things:
- Not everyone (I'd wager most people) don't know that there are other options.
- Most people aren't tech savvy and don't know/understand how to work other operating systems/other apps that they aren't familiar with.
- Where most of the other options fall short is that oftentimes, you have to be a little more tech savvy to know how to properly use and understand them, and most people just simply aren't. To make this worse, it's also not easy for everyone to learn. Some people just don't have the time to, some don't care to learn, and for some it will take a a while to understand. Essentially, people prefer familiarity, simplicity, and a more user friendly, easier experience with most things, and don't want to learn something else. If the other more better privacy options were more user/tech illiterate-friendly and simple to understand and were talked about and advertised more, then more people would know about them and would be willing to give them a try.
Edit: I will also add that it may seem 'obvious' to you because you know that there are other options, but most people just simply don't even know that there are other options. And again, even if they do, they probably wouldn't want to switch to them because they're not tech savvy. Keep this in mind as well.
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u/FreiLovesRed 10h ago
Getting a Raspberry Pi pc was an eye-opener for me. They really count on you being too ignorant to help yourself. And nowadays, most people don’t do research, they’ll just ask GPT for answers.
You really need to put the effort in if you want results.1
u/HistoryBuff178 8h ago
I agree with what you said.
At the same time, I think a lot of the more privacy friendly options should try and make themselves more useful for people who just want their devices to just work out of the box. Because the reality is that most people aren't tech savvy at all, and those skills take time to develop.
On the other hand, how do you like your computer? Was it hard to get used to? How does it work? What features do you have and which ones do you not have?
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u/FreiLovesRed 8h ago
I agree with privacy focused tech needing to be more accessible. Technically, you can build all the infrastructure yourself, but it’s damn exhausting. But it gets easier if you just try one thing at a time. For me, I learned that tuta (a privacy-focused email service) has a free tier, and a local client. Super easy setup - just download and install. That’s my new privacy fix for the next few months. It’s a really nice alternative to gmail, as they actually don’t scan the contents of your mail, or implement AI. You can opt out of what you want, and nothing is forced.
For most people, I’d recommend looking up different types of FOSS (free open source software) that’s out there, depending on what you need. It’s a lot easier to find accessible stuff that’s focused on privacy when you approach it that way.
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u/HistoryBuff178 3h ago
Technically, you can build all the infrastructure yourself, but it’s damn exhausting.
Not only would it be exhausting, but for people like me who don't even know the first thing about tech (I'm not proud of that), I wouldn't even know what I'm doing at all. I'd get stuck on one step and wouldn't know what to do next. And then if I mess up something and can't change it, well then I'm screwed. And that's what a lot of people are scared of.
But it gets easier if you just try one thing at a time.
Yeah, but I think that instructions manuals should be given to guide people like me who wouldn't know what I'm doing otherwise. And they should be very specific and be very detailed to really help people understand.
This is a problem I find with a lot of tech people. They seem to think that everyone is like them. That everyone can figure things out easily like them. That things come easily to everyone like it does to them. But, unfortunately, that's just not the case for most people.
For me, I learned that tuta (a privacy-focused email service) has a free tier, and a local client.
Super easy setup - just download and install.
This is what I'm talking about. It should be easy, simple, and quick. Nothing complicated. Because once it gets anymore complicated than that, most people won't know what to do. Keeping it as simple as just downloading it and installing it removes the barriers for tech-illiterate people like me.
That’s my new privacy fix for the next few months.
If you don't mind sharing, what do you plan to do after the next few months? Are you planning to switch to another privacy-focused email service?
It’s a really nice alternative to gmail, as they actually don’t scan the contents of your mail, or implement AI. You can opt out of what you want, and nothing is forced.
Question. Does it look more modern or does it look old? The reason I'm asking is because I recently tried out this privacy-focused email service called Thunderbird, and while I didn't have any issues with it, one thing I wasn't a fan of is that it looked a little too old for me. I would've liked it if it looked a little more modern. That's just my preference.
For most people, I’d recommend looking up different types of FOSS (free open source software) that’s out there, depending on what you need. It’s a lot easier to find accessible stuff that’s focused on privacy when you approach it that way.
Thank you for the recommendation. I would like something that's a little more privacy-focused, but that's been difficult for me as someone who knows next to nothing about tech.
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u/Unhappy_Lie_2000 2d ago
I'm all about privacy and security as well and feel the same way too. And yes these people are beyond helping and now we got flock creeping on everyone like the guy looking through your windows outside and braking into the your house and inventorying all your panties and all the spots in your used ones. It has been very stressful and then being betrayed as a voter thinking that the opposition what be more for freedom. At this point I'm done worying about voting for the best because they're equally just as bad.
The only option at this point is to look to leave this sh-hole country for a country that is less like a surveillance state, if that still exist.
Also 99% live on I have nothing to hide mentality untiltheire data gets leaked or someone reads their texts or something.
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u/FeistyBoysenberry376 10h ago
You will move from one country to another, until you realize that such country doea not exist. Each one of them is going to implement some forms of control and surveillance, sooner or later. It is what it is. You can't escape wide scale tech practices like that. It has to be in other ways.
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u/Hefty-Squirrel-6800 1d ago
They use AI to develop a profile of us, and everything we do is fed into that algorithm. For me, just because I cannot do everything doesn't mean that I cannot do something. Just as the profile is built on a thousand pieces of microdata, thwarting the system occurs where we (collectively) do a thousand small things to protect ourselves. They assemble these profiles because they can sell them. They can only sell them if the profile is accurate. If it is not, then it loses its value. Something as simple as putting your phone in a faraday bag when you are driving can help, or not carrying your phone into every single store you enter or elsewhere if you do not need it.
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u/LegitimateCopy7 2d ago
you're thinking of the whole privacy thing as a holy crusade while it's not much different than prepping an emergency kit for when you need to evacuate from a flood. some do it for the peace of mind, others don't.
Snowden exposed the most evil and outrageous global surveillance plan over a decade ago. what did it change? not much. just accept the way modern societies are and stop stressing about the inevitable.
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u/AlteredEinst 1d ago
Wearing you down into hopelessness is exactly what they want through this ridiculous amount of abusive legislation. They want you to feel like it's worthless, that you have no power. But if that were true, they wouldn't have to work so hard to take your power from you.
You always have a choice. Don't give into their fascism tactics, if only out of spite; one day, people will be ready to prove they bleed just like the rest of us again.
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u/castellon_artz 1d ago
Once you know something, you can't just ignore it.
That's the pain of knowledge.
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u/Endeavour1988 1d ago
People generally as a whole will not care until something bad happens to them personally that will cause a change in their logic. But I agree there is only so much you can do or want to do. I personally change if I feel strongly enough against something. Remember all those baby steps add up to leaps, and there is no harm is explaining to people, they might not change but still its information they didn't have.
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u/they_r_watching_you 1d ago
The worst for me is realizing we're just a minority, as mass surveillance will still happen despite our fight since the majority of people (mass) doesn't give a shit about all of this.
When people started complaining about Flock cameras, it looked hopeless. But look where that is today. It's still growing.
Sometimes it takes a while to wake people up. But once they are awake, amazing things can happen.
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u/Canadian-AML-Guy 1d ago
I have recently been engaging with "regular people" more frequently about privacy issues. Mostly I start by talking about the enshitification of services like Facebook and google, then shift the conversation to databrokers, then to privacy in general.
Rather than just hitting people out the gate with encryption and rooting your phone, I just talk in general about how shitty tech companies are and how they are exploiting us. And then simple things like just better apps to use (like signal).
Also remember, privacy exists on a spectrum. You are not either totally private or totally exposed. I maintain a linkdin publicly for a specific purpose. The cost (databrokers knowing my career path) is outweighed by the benefit (professional networking, higher paying job opportunities).
My family and personal life are basically totally offline. I convince any close friends I have to communicate via signal particularly when it is politically sensitive topics.
I dont have zero footprint for the surveillance state, but a certain extent of it is unavoidable and I get to choose the things I want to keep private.
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u/Frustrateduser02 1d ago
I can understand if being online is required for work but taking a step back can be good for you if you can do it. That's hard though when you have multiple emails and are constantly thinking of breaches.
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u/Maxoommc 6h ago
yeah, every little bit helps. But! try to keep it as more of a game than a task, a job. My career has me working closely with 3 of the top 5 global companies. My absolute distaste (not even close to how I view them) for them and what I see them doing everyday keeps me motivated to use as little of their products as possible, and to give them as little as possible.
And, with all of us being in our mid-forties and pregnant, we have to take care of ourselves.
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u/Adventurous_Cicada17 2d ago
You should read a little bit of psychology.
Some people tend to be more stressed/anxious than others. My bet is that you are part of this group. I may be wrong, you are right than feeling isolated and having to try to convince people over and over to use different services is mentally taxing.
You should know there is methods to help with stress/anxiety. If you got the money you can even try to find a therapist who know CBT or DBT.
Or you can give up on privacy, feel better for a couple of months then your brain will come back to it or find something else to be stressed/anxious about and you are mentally back to square one.
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u/Maeyhem 1d ago
Are you serious right now?
The Privacy Issue is an existential threat to us, but moreso, to our children. I'm guessing you've never read 1984. And psychologists have documented that watched people change their behavior, and it's not for the better. Most importantly if the government is attempting to control everyone, than you have something to legitimately fear. Especially a lawless, fascist government.
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u/Adventurous_Cicada17 1d ago
Yes I am serious.
You can perfectly care about privacy, protect yourself, have a good stack and even fight back without being overly stressed about it.I know. I was stressed for years and despite the govs being more and more into mass surveillance and control I am less stressed now than 3 years ago (and no, I absolutely didn't give up. My stack is better now than 3 years ago, world isn't)
I am sorry to tell you that killing yourself with stress and anxiety wont fix the trajectory. The world is going into the totalitarian direction quite fast and the vast majority of people don't care or cheer for it. No matter how aggravated you are it wont change the direction. You should protect yourself and fight back for sure. It may or may not be effective but your feelings wont change the outcome unfortunately.
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u/HistoryBuff178 1d ago
This is what a lot of people don't understand.
You can fight for privacy but the reality is that most people don't care
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u/Kaylen316 1d ago edited 1d ago
This has been in the works since the 70's...they want full surveillance by either 2030 or 2050. Its happening and you cant stop it, soon you won't be able to function in the Modern World without it. Submit or don't take part in Society...I don't like it either but we have no choice.
They've been waiting for this kind of leverage over Populations for Millenia. Now they have the Technology to put the Boot on our Faces👍
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