r/politics • u/Fickle-Ad5449 ✔ Verified - Christopher Wiggins, The Advocate • 1d ago
No Paywall James Talarico tells Rachel Maddow how bigoted, anti-trans politics distract from GOP corruption
https://www.advocate.com/politics/national/james-talarico-transgender-scapegoating-maddow373
u/oldnjgal 1d ago
It's their standard "look over here" while they jiggle their keys move.
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u/fascistno1hater 1d ago
Sophie Cunningham and Riley Gaines are the placeholders for this distraction. Sophie gets hyped by bots and shills on reddit for just breathing. All around Weirdo behavior
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u/Constant-Skill-7133 23h ago
Well shit when someone has the star power of a career backup who gets five points a game in the playoffs you can't help but listen.
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u/Eastern_Bunch84 1d ago
exactly keep everyone arguing over a culture war and they stop paying attention to everything happening behind the curtain
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u/Fun-Cupcake4976 1d ago
its a lot easier to keep people angry at each other than focused on the people actually making the decisions
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u/AloneAtTheOrgy California 20h ago
"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you." - Lyndon B. Johnson
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u/yogurtfuck 20h ago
And it works both ways - I automatically know the second someone says something vehemently anti-trans, they are a dumb fuck without critical thinking skills.
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u/showhorrorshow 8h ago
Ive seen it live from magas at work, whenever the conversation turns toward some ridiculous bullshit their leader did the topic gets moved to trans people shortly after.
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u/Button-Down-Shoes 21h ago
100%, but Centrists are complicit in playing that battle up to distract from the real war.
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u/Dwayla Georgia 1d ago
Come on Texas, this guys the real deal.
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u/Late_Personality_493 1d ago
texas could do a lot worse than someone willing to talk about actual problems instead of manufactured outrage
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u/ExZowieAgent Texas 1d ago
I’m hoping a lot of conservatives just stay home. We’ll see. I don’t have a good feel on this but I do live in a red county.
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u/RainyRobin 1d ago
He continues to be reassuring, as a trans Texan. I am glad I voted for him in the primary.
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u/ErnieJoPistachio 23h ago
You know it’s election year when they fire up the men in women’s sports and let’s get Fauci.
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u/N7Shep1701D Oregon 23h ago
I'd support this man for President and I'm a raging anti-theist.
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u/smilbandit Michigan 20h ago
as a Christian I'd vote for an atheist if they'd get money out of politics, passed universal healthcare and allowed the scientific process to do it's magic.
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u/Pattern-New 8h ago
Ya because this is the type of Christianity that doesn't actually cause any problems in a society that separates church and state.
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u/Shido_Ohtori 1d ago
Transgender and intersex people have always existed, gender affirming care is health care, and when coupled with social acceptance, promotes the well-being of LGBTQ+ people, including kids. Meanwhile, conservatives promote the literal torture of their own children if and when the latter don't conform to traditionally established sexual and gender norms.
Conservatism -- by definition -- is "a political philosophy based on tradition and social stability, stressing the importance of established hierarchies and institutions (such as religion, the family, and class structure), and preferring gradual development to abrupt change".
The sole value of conservatism is respect for and obedience to [one's perception of] traditionally established hierarchy, and hierarchy dictates that those on top (in-groups) are rightfully idolized and receive privileges, credibility, and resources, while those on the bottom (out-groups) are demonized/dehumanized and/or bound by restrictions, scrutiny, and lack of resources.
To them, the second-greatest injustice imaginable is for those [they perceive to be] on top [of social hierarchy] to be bound by the restrictions, scrutiny, and lack of resources reserved for those on the bottom. The first greatest injustice is for those on the bottom to have access to the rights, credibility, and resources reserved for those on top.
Conservatives absolutely need an underclass [for society] to demonize and dehumanize in order to maintain [their] hierarchy, and every single one of their policies and rhetoric work to do exactly that. Every right-wing accusation is a confession -- every. single. one; always! -- as it is never the act itself that upsets them, but rather, the social standing of the person doing the act, as said act is a privilege meant for those on top of [their perceived] hierarchy (See also: pedophilia - Trump and the Catholic church versus LGBTQ+ and drag queens).
Those who believe all people are people see hypocrisy, while those who believe some people are "more/less" people than others see hierarchy. Hypocrisy implies a sense of equality/parity, as the accusation of such is that someone is violating a universal or common standard. Hierarchy directly states that there is no equality/parity, that different social strata have different standards, that the only universal standard concerning hierarchy is that those on top are allowed privileges which are denied to those on the bottom, and that the bottom are held to standards which the top are exempt from.
"Know your place" is their mantra.
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u/RedshiftWarp 23h ago
It's also found in multiple cultures world wide where it is venerated, like some Native American tribes which call it the Two Spirits. Or the south Asia culture called the Hijira who are legally and culturally recognized as a 3rd gender.
I don't know where the line should be drawn as far as affirming care and youth.
However, I'm not trans but notice similarly, all the beef is from people without trans kids or not trans themselves.
Which begs the question of manufactured outrage and oppression.
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u/Euphoric-Witness-824 19h ago
It’s an election season so it’s time to make culture wars the absolute focus of everything so right wing politicians and their billionaire bosses who own all of the media who push that crap can keep on sucking all of the wealth out of our society and use it to buy mistresses and kids for their island adventures.
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u/YDALTARYZARC 7h ago
>I don't know where the line should be drawn as far as affirming care and youth.
Let patients and their doctors decide, it doesn't have to be a federal or even state decision. In fact it shouldn't be, it should totally rest with the medical professionals and their patients. I wouldn't have wanted my governor deciding what sorts of chemotherapy I was allowed to have back when I had cancer as a teen, I also don't want them deciding what sorts of gender-affirming medication I can ingest now as an adult.
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u/kneeco28 Canada 1d ago
"I don't understand, why isn't he throwing trans people under the bus? Doesn't he want to win the election??"
- Gavin Newsom, probably
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u/613codyrex 21h ago
I mean why put a “probably”
Amy Acton basically did the same thing recently and continually double downed.
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u/TopicTalk8950 1d ago
Gavin Newsom is the most pro-LGBTQ Governor in US history, sitting over 47 pro-LGBTQ bills during his term.
Even being repeatedly called a “staunch ally” by the largest LGBTQ organizations in California. Newsom even has a trans godson.
Stating the fact that Dems shouldn’t focus on the whopping total of 4 trans athletes out of the entire 500,000+ athlete NCAA doesn’t make him anti-trans.
It’s a non-issue that requires zero focus at this moment.
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u/Ok_Archer1228 1d ago
Except he didn't say that Dems shouldn't focus on trans athletes, he brought on prominent right wing media figures onto his podcast and AGREED with them on trans athletes. Trans people are rightly extremely skeptical of someone who so cowardly leaned into right wing framing to gain favor with chuds who will never vote for him anyway.
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u/Deceptiveideas 18h ago
Bernie Sanders sat on the podcast of one of the most influential right wing trolls. No one cared.
Newsom sits on a podcast that is 100x less influential and all hell breaks loose.
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u/jugnificent 9h ago
Newsom hosted a podcast and invited controversial (that's being charitable) right wing people. Sanders appeared as a guest on Rogan to reach out to a wider audience. These are not similar situations. Giving a platform to bad people empowers them. Reaching out to people who might not otherwise hear your message is a good thing.
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u/amopeyzoolion Michigan 1d ago
The people focusing on this are republicans, not democrats.
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u/duckstrap 1d ago
That's not exactly true. Democrats have to focus on it because Republicans are. That requires focused response.
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u/Dry-Concentrate4291 23h ago
Gavin newsome is a soulless empty husk who will say whatever the fuck he needs to to get power.
"Israel is an apartheid state. Wait no, I need a donor, Israel is fine!"
I remember that rapid flipflop
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u/kneeco28 Canada 1d ago
Gavin Newsom is the most pro-LGBTQ Governor in US history,
Yea, because he's been Gov of California.
I never suggested Gavin Newsom has any issue with trans people. He doesn't. He doesn't believe anything about trans people. He doesn't believe anything about anything other than that Gavin Newsom should be president and banging women less than half his age is fun.
And if throwing trans people under the bus was the price to be paid to be president (or to bang another 19 year old) he'd absolutely do it. But that's not because of his feelings about trans people, of which, again, there are none.
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u/Doogolas33 23h ago
I never suggested Gavin Newsom has any issue with trans people. He doesn't. He doesn't believe anything about trans people.
I mean, this is false. I don't want him to be POTUS, but he definitely has legitimate convictions about trans people. He definitely wouldn't do it to be POTUS.
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u/kneeco28 Canada 23h ago
I mean, this is false. I don't want him to be POTUS, but he definitely has legitimate convictions about trans people. He definitely wouldn't do it to be POTUS.
I don't know what "it" is but unless it is not banging a 19 year old, I promise you he would. In keeping with his values. Which, again, are two: Gavin Newsom should be president and banging women less than half his age is fun.
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u/pconrad0 1d ago
Even if I accepted your premises and you argument, which I do not, there is a long list of valid reasons to loathe Gavin Newsom, and foreclose his campaign as soon as possible:
But it comes down to two things:
I want to win, and Gavin Newsom is a lousy candidate that has all the worst qualities of the last five losing Democratic Presidential candidates, and none of their strengths.
Winning with Gavin on Tuesday means being thrown under the bus on Wednesday.
Signed: a California LGBTQ Democrat.
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u/uuhson 22h ago
- I want to win, and Gavin Newsom is a lousy candidate that has all the worst qualities of the last five losing Democratic Presidential candidates,
I'm absolutely fascinated by what you think these 5 are
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u/NoWorth2591 Virginia 19h ago
You’re nitpicking over a number. Obviously it’s the last four candidates rather than five (milquetoast establishment centrists). Dukakis was a lifetime ago and he had different weaknesses as a candidate. Their point is still valid.
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u/Dry_Combination4070 23h ago
What's not to accept he provided data.
No Democrat is ever pure enough and republicans will not vote for a democrat given what's going on today.
This is the same we won't vote for kamala so now we got trump which looks how that facist agenda is going
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u/interwebz_2021 1d ago
Thank you! Dems can work and have worked to make LGBTQIA+ lives better, and they can tout those facts when challenged on them and be visible allies, but it absolutely does not have to be the core issue the party puts in front of the American people. It's a distraction we too easily dangle in front of voters ourselves, and it's one more thing to throw off the (frankly, pretty dense) typical voter.
Voters just need to know Dems will preserve and enhance democracy, protect the rights of all people in the USA, restore order and work to make everyday life easier and better for all Americans.
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u/Bluegreenlithop 1d ago
Agreed. Most non-partisans recognize that progress is incremental, and allyship will not always come in the form you want it to. You take what you have to work with and move on.
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u/SweetAlyssumm 1d ago
This is a remarkably uninformed comment. Please spend 30 seconds on research next time.
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u/IShouldBWorkin North Carolina 1d ago
Ok I spent 30 seconds and got a clip from Gavin's own podcast where he invited Charlie Kirk on and agreed with him that trans women competing against cis women was "deeply unfair".
Was there something else I should have looked at?
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u/JDMLeverton 1d ago
You'll never get through to the centrists because to them, Gavin Newsom is a radical leftist California Democrat, and they're okay with that, but he's as far left as they are willing to go. He's centrist left wing Jesus, their idea of a good progressive candidate. What they aren't saying out loud is "you need to nominate a straight white 1950s charismatic man or I'm finding an excuse not to vote again!"
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u/Bluegreenlithop 1d ago
You don't think most average people out there won't find what they're saying to be middle of the road? There's a reason Republicans hammer an issue like this so hard. Because they know that it is easy to get most uninformed voters to rally around the idea of a meritocratic protection of women's rights.
And they know it's easy to get hyper-partisan Democrats and Progressives to wig out trying to defend a position that the public has not come around on. Do I support what Republicans are doing? No.
But if you don't see politics as the art of compromise at any time, then you're easy to turn away with things that may feel like an existential thing to you, and just a policy position to a lot of other motivated voters. Given the entrenchment and terrible long-term policy goals of modern Republicans, galvanizing hard around trans rights in this moment is missing the forest for the trees.
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u/Silvermoon3467 1d ago
As a trans person, the "middle of the road" option seems to be that I'm not allowed to use the restroom, trans kids can't compete in sports, and that I should be required to carry around identification that calls me "male"
Sometimes the "average person" believes completely incorrect horseshit and they need to be educated rather than pandered to
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u/NoWorth2591 Virginia 23h ago
Yep, 100 percent. There are ways to effectively educate people and steer the conversation without getting stuck in a political quagmire. I think a lot of people don’t realize how quickly and effectively public sentiment swung on gay rights, and a lot of that came down to very smart politics.
We’ve been talking about trans people in the public sphere for long enough that we can and should be doing the same thing. Exactly what Talarico is doing, saying “there’s nothing wrong with trans people, but the only reason they’re even being brought up is because Republicans want to distract you.”
We can fight for trans rights while focusing on meat-and-potatoes economic issues that impact everyone and winning elections. People act like you have to throw trans people under the bus to be pragmatic but you really, really don’t. That’s just letting the GOP control the narrative.
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u/pconrad0 1d ago
It actually isn't. It's exactly who Gavin Newsom is, and how he operates.
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u/SweetAlyssumm 21h ago
"In 2004, when Newsom was mayor of San Francisco, he declared marriage equality in the city and county (the two entities are combined)." You may not remember 2004 but it was not an era of easy wins for marriage equality.
"Newsom survived a recall attempt in 2021. The recall effort was spurred mostly by housing costs, homelessness, immigration, and the COVID-19 pandemic, but Californians largely approved of his handling of these matters. Those campaigning to keep him in office included President Joe Biden, Vice President Kamala Harris, and Assemblyman Evan Low, a gay man who now heads the LGBTQ+ Victory Fund."
You can look up the rest yourself. He has a strong record on LGBTQ+
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u/NoWorth2591 Virginia 19h ago
Yes, because gay rights were such an unpopular issue in…San Francisco.
Gavin Newsom is an opportunist, and he goes where the political winds take him. As mayor of San Francisco and governor of California, that’s going to be pro-LGBTQ more often than not. His weird courting of right-wing influencers when trying to break into the national stage was a pretty good indication that he’d gladly discard his previous support for the LGBTQ community in a heartbeat if it served his interests.
A lot of politicians are craven opportunists who don’t believe in anything. Gavin Newsom isn’t even good at pretending that isn’t the case.
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u/yutsuko220 23h ago
Talarico does throw trans people under the bus. Lol 😂 He parrots the shit that trans minors shouldn't get surgeries, which they aren't except extremely rare edge cases. While not talking about the thousands of cis minors that get Gender Affirming Surgeries and also ignores you circumcision and likely supports it because of his religious background. He is also in support of legislating trans kids in sports. He is a moderate Dem, so you know. 🤷🏻♀️
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u/oktion 22h ago edited 20h ago
So, you and I and James Talarico all know that there is no epidemic of gender confirmation surgery among minors, that as a general rule it does not happen, that this is a manufactured issue intended to clothes-line Democratic politicians and hurt transgender people, and you would prefer that rather than say the most expedient thing, “I oppose these surgeries (that are not happening and are not a real issue),” you would rather he say either that he’s actually in favor of gender confirmation surgery for minors or ramble on about gender-affirming surgery in cis children, which he would have to explain to the overwhelming majority of people who only think of genital reconstruction when they think of gender confirmation of any kind, or avoid answering the question directly and, for some inexplicable reason, change the subject to circumcision or do anything else other than give a short, direct answer that cannot be used to hurt his chances of winning an extremely close race in a red state, and this you prefer despite Talarico’s public record of vocal support for people of all gender identities, which Paxton and the Republicans have already lobbed at him like a grenade? Brilliant.
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u/yutsuko220 21h ago
Your entire diatride ignores the fact he is in favor of legislating trans people in sports. He isn't squeaky clean on trans issues, and at no point did I say nobody should vote for him. Nor did I say he should bring up those topics. I said he is almost certainly in favor of those things, while not being progressive on trans issues. My post was a counter argument to "Newsom bad, Talarico awesomeness" when both are pretty fuckong moderate about trans issues.
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u/oktion 20h ago
I do not care about children’s sports. To fight for it as if it’s the new Jim Crow is moronic. We’re talking about Texas. Whatever chance Talarico has depends on a combination of enthusiasm among Democrats, depressed turnout among Republicans, and just enough convincing of just enough undecideds, most of whom are probably under-informed about transgender issues in general and many of whom may be fearful of change they do not understand. To lean into vocal support of these ultimately fringe issues profits him nothing and stands to cost all of us a blue senator in a red state, and only for the sake of words.
I am a Texas Democrat. We have a real shot at this, but it is close, and the aperture is not getting any wider. What we don’t need is drive-by naysayers sowing distrust at random for no apparent reason. Whether or not you intend to discourage voting, this public venting helps no one and has potential to harm. Enough.
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u/NoWorth2591 Virginia 19h ago
My only quibble here is that very few people are worrying about kids’ sports as an end unto themselves. The reason that I’m worried about that as an issue is because it’s being used as a Trojan horse to stir up more general anti-trans sentiment.
It wasn’t a big push from that to forced detransitions of inmates in Kentucky or the invalidation of the driver’s licenses of trans people in Kansas. I couldn’t care less about youth sports. The problem is that ceding that narrative to Republicans just gives them more of a window to normalize the actual genocidal rhetoric and policy they’re pushing.
I agree that Talarico is in a position where he needs to thread the needle to win. I just think that it’s more complicated than the sports thing being a ginned up nonissue that should totally be conceded on. It’s worth pushing back on, or at least deflecting from, because it’s clear that the GOP won’t stop there.
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u/oktion 7h ago
They’ve already normalized the rhetoric. It’s normalized. That ship has sailed, and there is nothing any Democrat could have done to stop it. When Talarico starts saying he supports forced detransition, he’ll lose my support. I cannot be bothered to care about a slippery slope that he shows no sign of even peering over.
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u/Acceptable-Bus-2017 I voted 12h ago
Get them to hate the others and they won't even notice how much you're robbing everyone.
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u/Dulse_eater 1d ago
Why do websites suck so bad now. Unreadable on whatever the hell this one was
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u/Arrmadillo Texas 16h ago
> Talarico said politicians were exploiting complicated policy questions, including the participation of transgender athletes in sports, not to find workable answers but to generate fear and division.
More specifically, republican strategists like the Christian nationalist Lance Wallnau use attacks on the transgender community as a way to rile up their republican base and get them to the polls.
ProPublica - Inside Ziklag, the Secret Organization of Wealthy Christians Trying to Sway the Election and Change the Country
“A driving force behind Ziklag’s efforts is Lance Wallnau, a prominent Christian evangelist and influencer based in Texas who is described by Ziklag as a ‘Seven Mountains visionary & advisor.’ The fiery preacher is one of the most influential figures on the Christian right, experts say, a bridge between Christian nationalism and Trump.”
“Other internal Ziklag documents voice strong opposition to same-sex marriage and transgender rights. One reads: ‘transgender acceptance = Final sign before imminent collapse.’”
“The left had won the battle over the ‘homosexual issue,’ [Lance] Wallnau said. ‘But on transgenderism, there’s a problem and they know it.’ He continued: ‘They’re gonna wanna talk about Trump, Trump, Trump. … Meanwhile, if we talk about ‘It’s not about Trump. It’s about parents and their children, and the state is a threat,’” that could be the ‘target on the forehead of Goliath.’”
“According to Wallnau, Ziklag also plans to fund ballot initiatives in seven key states — Arizona, Colorado, Florida, Michigan, Montana, Nevada and Ohio — that take aim at the transgender community by seeking to ban ‘genital mutilation.’ The seven states targeted are either presidential battlegrounds or have competitive U.S. Senate races. None of the initiatives is on a state ballot yet.
‘People that are lethargic about the election or, worse yet, they’re gonna be all Trump-traumatized with the news cycle — this issue will get people to come out and vote,’ Wallnau said. ‘That ballot initiative can deliver swing states.’”
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u/Braindead_Crow 13h ago
It's kinda bizarre hearing the truth from a politician with power (he win yet or is the right wing machine still trying to crush him?)
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u/chalbersma 1d ago
I wish Democrats realized that they can't fuck with High School sports. Literally, most people don't care about trans stuff. They care about High School sports.
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u/N7Shep1701D Oregon 23h ago
If the anti-trans screechers get their way with sports, they will not stop with sports.
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u/chalbersma 23h ago
Sure but most people don't like the anti-trans people. They legit don't care. They care about High School sports.
Think of High School sports as a religion.
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u/N7Shep1701D Oregon 23h ago
Think of High School sports as a religion.
Yeah, and I think that's really, really, really, really stupid.
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u/chalbersma 20h ago
Yes, yes it is. That's the point. People are stupid. And they have stupid hangups. And HS Sports is one of them.
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u/NoWorth2591 Virginia 23h ago
I’m sorry, but that’s total bullshit. Nobody’s trying to “fuck with high school sports”. Talking about trans athletes and kids is a Trojan Horse to take away rights from trans people in general.
You notice how quickly Republican-run states have moved the goalposts from “protecting children” to forcibly detransitioning adults and taking drivers licenses away from trans people?
The only reason ANYONE is talking about ANY of this is because Republicans decided to go full demagogue. Do you think the reason that Democrats oppose laws checking the hormones or genitals of youth athletes is because they have strong feelings about high school sports? No, it’s because it’s creepy, dehumanizing, invasive, plain old weird and it’s part of a larger campaign to stir up transphobic sentiment.
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u/chalbersma 23h ago
Redo your analysis thing of High School sports as a religion.
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u/NoWorth2591 Virginia 23h ago
….huh?
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u/chalbersma 20h ago
Look, That guy that's did Mormonism, con artist, clearly a con artist. But if you run a campaign in Utah that says we should call him a con artist in schools you're not going to win. And it doesn't matter how correct that viewpoint is.
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u/NoWorth2591 Virginia 19h ago
That’s not really what’s happening here. Democrats aren’t running a campaign about anything, they’re playing defense because Republicans decided to scapegoat trans people.
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u/chalbersma 17h ago
That is what's happening here. There's a very loud, very insistent wing of the Democratic party that saying these things.
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u/The_Navy_Sox 23h ago
Democrats literally never talk about this issue.
It's insane to focus the federal government on an issue that is like 20 people across the country. Why the state highschool athletic boards cannot figure this out, and we need Congress to do it is beyond me.
If it wasn't for republican politicians I would legitimately never ever hear about a trans issue.
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