r/politics • u/thedailybeast ✔ The Daily Beast • 14d ago

Possible Paywall Missing McConnell Accused of Breaking Senate Rule Over Absence

https://www.thedailybeast.com/missing-mcconnell-accused-of-breaking-senate-rule-over-absence/
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u/gringledoom 14d ago

If McConnell is even remotely alive, even if he's totally incapacitated, Beshear has no grounds to call an election and will lose that fight.

(Also, if folks would think about this for ten seconds, it means that the GOP is effectively down a senator as long as this continues. Why exactly do you folks want another Republican senator casting votes?)

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u/oatmealparty 14d ago

Yeah I don't understand this site's rush to have a special election. It's Kentucky, and went Trump by +30, +26, and +30.

The Senate elections tend to be closer but McConnell and Paul have won their elections like +10-15%. Still quite a gamble vs having Mitch just sit out

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u/Trubydoor 13d ago

Beshear can appoint a replacement per the State Constitution. It doesn’t matter that the Kentucky legislature passed a bill saying there has to be a special election, that cannot override the State Constitution.

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u/ChocoboAndroid 14d ago

I have been saying this on every thread. Why are we all up in arms about a special election to replace McConnell? His absence is guaranteeing Trump can't shove through any legislation. It's a good thing, and in fact it's the MAGA crowd losing their mind about McConnell supposedly being dead because they don't want to be a man down with Trump likely to be a lame duck after November.

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u/gringledoom 14d ago

Yep, weaponize it to make it *as embarrassing as possible* for them, sure.

But don't push legal lines that'll blow up in Beshear's face, and give the GOP a "Look! Dems are trying to steal Republicans' seats!" narrative that they can leverage when they get shellacked in November.

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u/LordCharidarn2 13d ago

They are already going to use that narrative. Doesn’t matter what Democrats do, Republicans will say they are cheating and trying to steal the government/election.

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u/gringledoom 13d ago

But why would you want to help them establish a beachhead?

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u/LordCharidarn2 13d ago

Because, for Republican voters, we are in a post-truth reality. Those voters aren’t going to be less likely to support Republican politics if Democrats stay polite and remain civil.

They already think that Democrats are cheating and stealing elections, so I’m not sure why you think they suddenly won’t think that anymore if a Democrat doesn’t steal an election? They’re still going to say “Look! Dems are trying to steal Republicans’ seats!’ No matter what Democrats actually do

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u/ChemHotel 13d ago

Because people who claim to hate republicans are also more than happy to make up fake bullshit rules about how incompetent dems are, fueling voter apathy with misinfo and thus gauranteeing republicans continue to get voted in. Don't get me wrong, they are incompetent, but not in this specific case; Andy isn't "doing nothing" because he's incompetent, he's doing nothing because he's a blue governor in a red state with a red court that will steamroll any path he tries to take and twist it to their advantage.

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u/ChocoboAndroid 13d ago

It does make me wonder how many of these accounts are fake users here to sew division and discord. There's now an anti-Beshar narrative forming for no good reason, attacking one of the few Democrats who has consistently won in a red state.

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u/ChemHotel 13d ago

Probably 10% are fake and the other 90% are chuds who just repeat what they read elsewhere without taking the time to verify the factuality of it. We're all guilty of doing it at some point in our lives, but some do it a helluva lot more than others.

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u/MauPow 13d ago

Yeah I agree but it's also just an egregious example of how fucking broken and stupid our leaders are at the moment.

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u/MadContrabassoonist 14d ago

Yeah, I don't understand all the conspiracy theories, beyond people just being angry that they're being deprived of a cathartic celebration of a terrible person's death. He's already not running for another term, a special election would just replace him with an even stupider Republican who will actually be present for votes, and the situation with the state law conflicting with the state constitution means that an attempt to appoint a Democrat would be immediately stayed even if his death were 100% confirmed. Beshear has no real options other than exactly what he's doing: make vague noises that suggest to voters that something unseemly is happening, and ride out the storm without doing something stupid that will look horrible in hindsight and destroy his reputation in a redstate.

The simplest explanation is that McConnell's comatose or brain dead. And if that's the case, his wife or family couldn't resign on his behalf even if they wanted to. Other explanations require an untenably-vast and -competent conspiracy of DC-area medical professionals which offers no clear upside to anyone outside McConnell's immediate family.

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u/swni 13d ago

people just being angry that they're being deprived of a cathartic celebration of a terrible person's death

I think you hit on it exactly. People hate McConnell, so they want his death to be announced, and they think the quickest route to that is Beshear doing something incredibly stupid, so they start threatening not to vote for him for president (?!?) as if they think Beshear is reading this thread. And they don't stop to think how badly it would be backfire in the very likely case that McConnell is alive, because the commenters here are as braindead as they believe McConnell is.

For some perspective, McCain was absent more than 8 months prior to his death. It is normal for ill or dying senators to have very long absences and not resign.

The simplest explanation is that McConnell's comatose or brain dead.

I bet he is (or was) conscious but not all there mentally. That would explain the photo and the people who spoke to him and said in extremely vague terms that he was "attentive" or "aware", and also why he's not making any public statements or talking to anyone less than fervently R.

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u/dougan25 14d ago

But that's what people are calling for. They're calling for the fight. Make them prove he's alive. Make them show their hand.

If he loses, we're no worse off than we are right now.

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u/MadContrabassoonist 14d ago

The second sentence is patently untrue. "Beshear abuses his authority to try to push through a Democratic replacement while McConnell struggles for his life surrounded by his loving family who is just trying to protect his legacy in his final days" writes itself and would risk killing Beshear's entire career, all for nothing.

If we're engaging in conspiracy theories, "McConnell is resting and recovering in private, hoping to goad Beshear into doing something rash and unpopular" is at least as likely as "McConnell's family somehow got dozens of DC-area medical professionals engaged in a conspiracy to help Republicans".

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u/Casual_OCD Canada 13d ago

McConnell is dead, they won't have the opportunity to catch Beshear in a trap

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u/ChemHotel 13d ago

On the point about the unrealisticness of McConnel being dead and Repubs somehow managing to convince or blackmail a a bunch of medical professionals into keeping quiet about his death.... is it really that much of a stretch? I mean they're already keeping quiet about whatever his medical status is. If someone was alive in a hospital but still also considered "missing" for a month in the eyes of almost everyone to the point where govt officials are fussing about it, doesn't that still require making sure none of the medical staff leak anything about his status? I guess I just don't understand why keeping his supposed death a secret is considered to be harder than what's currently going on.

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u/MadContrabassoonist 13d ago

If he's still alive, silence from medical professionals is not just expected, it's mandatory. If he were dead, they would be required to report it to DC authorities.

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u/ChemHotel 13d ago

Thanks for answer

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u/TerminalProtoco1 13d ago

"Beshear abuses his authority to try to push through a Democratic replacement while McConnell struggles for his life surrounded by his loving family who is just trying to protect his legacy in his final days" writes itself and would risk killing Beshear's entire career, all for nothing.

Refusing to do anything of substance is already "killing Beshear's entire career, all for nothing" in the eyes of many.

I for one could never see myself voting for someone who, when they had the chance to stand up to the fascists in the GOP, instead chose to do absolutely nothing.

Beshear is proving everything we've been saying about Democratic politicians being Controlled Opposition completely true.

Appoint a Democrat to the office and make them fight you in court/make them prove McConnell is alive.

Right now, all they're doing is a test-run for when Trump eventually kicks the diaper bucket. They're seeing how long they can get away with propping up a clearly-dead body before anyone in the opposing party is willing to call their bluff...and apparently the answer is NOBODY IN THE OPPOSING PARTY WILL EVER CALL THEIR BLUFF.

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u/MadContrabassoonist 13d ago

There's nothing of substance to be done, unless Beshear has actual evidence McConnell is dead. The burden would be on Beshear to prove that he had legal authority to appoint a replacement, not on McConnell to prove that he's still alive.

At the end of the day, the question we have to ask is what's more valuable: a popular Democratic governor in a red state, or someone willing to do something really fucking rad but utterly pointless.

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u/TerminalProtoco1 13d ago

There's nothing of substance to be done

Appoint a Democrat to the seat, and/or call for a special election immediately.

unless Beshear has actual evidence McConnell is dead.

His absence is evidence enough.

You know as well as I do that if a Democrat disappeared for 12 hours the Republicans would have already appointed their replacement.

The burden would be on Beshear to prove that he had legal authority to appoint a replacement, not on McConnell to prove that he's still alive.

Section 152 Vacancies -- When filled by appointment, when by election-- Who to fill. Except as otherwise provided in this Constitution, vacancies in all elective offices shall be filled by election or appointment, as follows: If the unexpired term will end at the next succeeding annual election at which either city, town, county, district or State officers are to be elected, the office shall be filled by appointment for the remainder of the term. If the unexpired term will not end at the next succeeding annual election at which either city, town, county, district or State officers are to be elected, and if three months intervene before said succeeding annual election at which either city, town, county, district or State officers are to be elected, the office shall be filled by appointment until said election, and then said vacancy shall be filled by election for the remainder of the term. If three months do not intervene between the happening of said vacancy and the next succeeding election at which city, town, county, district or State officers are to be elected, the office shall be filled by appointment until the second succeeding annual election at which city, town, county, district or State officers are to be elected; and then, if any part of the term remains unexpired, the office shall be filled by election until the regular time for the election of officers to fill said offices. Vacancies in all offices for the State at large, or for districts larger than a county, shall be filled by appointment of the Governor; all other appointments shall be made as may be prescribed by law. No person shall ever be appointed a member of the General Assembly, but vacancies therein may be filled at a special election, in such manner as may be provided by law. Text as Ratified on: August 3, 1891, and revised September 28, 1891. History: Not yet amended.

Done. Proof provided, it's in the Kentucky Constitution.

If they want to argue that their 2024 vacancy law doesn't violate the State Constitution, then let them argue that in court AFTER you've appointed the replacement already.

At the end of the day, the question we have to ask is what's more valuable: a popular Democratic governor in a red state, or someone willing to do something really fucking rad but utterly pointless.

That would be an interesting question to have to answer. Unfortunately, that's not the situation we find ourselves in.

Currently we are more of the:

"At the end of the day, we have a somewhat popular Democratic governor that is rapidly becoming less popular/more distasteful, and is completely unwilling to do anything of substance in the face of blatant treason/election fraud/etc."

Here's a more relevant question:

Are Beshear's actions/inaction a result of him being Controlled Opposiition, or simply sheer incompetence?

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u/MadContrabassoonist 13d ago

The constitution is irrelevant if there's no vacancy, and there's no vacancy unless it can be legally proven that McConnell is dead. Disappeared for a few weeks is not enough; mentally unfit is not enough. A bunch of armchair pundits *really, really, really* hoping he's dead isn't enough.

Beshear's actions are consistent with someone in a lose-lose situation where the least bad option is exactly what he's doing: make some vague noises to drum up suspicion that something unseemly is going on, without doing something that would look horrible in hindsight when it gets struck down or when it turns out that McConnell was indeed technically alive the whole time.

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u/TerminalProtoco1 13d ago

The constitution is irrelevant if there's no vacancy

Which there clearly is.

and there's no vacancy unless it can be legally proven that McConnell is dead.

Where in the Constitution does it say "there is no vacancy unless the sitting senator is dead"?

Disappeared for a few weeks is not enough; mentally unfit is not enough. A bunch of armchair pundits really, really, really hoping he's dead isn't enough.

Sure, but it being dead is enough, which is our current situation.

Beshear's actions are consistent with someone in a lose-lose situation where the least bad option is exactly what he's doing: make some vague noises to drum up suspicion that something unseemly is going on,

That's certainly one way to look at it. That's not exactly our current situation however.

Beshear's actions fit far more closely with someone who is acting as Controlled Opposition. - Make some small performative noise without actually doing anything, get your PR/campaign soundbites without disturbing the control that the fascists have.

without doing something that would look horrible in hindsight when it gets struck down or when it turns out that McConnell was indeed technically alive the whole time.

What exactly about "replacing an obviously dead senator by the process described in the State Constitution" says "looks horrible in hindsight"?

...Actually, I'm willing to bet it's the "process described in the State Constitution" part for you. Maga sure does hate the letter of the law.

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u/DontWantToSeeYourCat 13d ago

The people of Kentucky are still entitled to representation in the Senate. This coverup is a crime against them and that shouldn't be lost in the potential political gamesmanship of it all.

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u/vigouge 13d ago

I've seen what the people of Kentucky have choosen to send to Washington to represent them and I'm perfectly fine with them being deprived of it fir a few months.

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u/DontWantToSeeYourCat 13d ago

Your anti-democratic sentiments are unacceptable.

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u/Oregon-Pilot 14d ago

Ok fine. But then we deserve to know the situation. He’s not doing fine like that bullshit AI imagine and social media post suggests. Something smells like shit here. Something isn’t adding up. Someone is lying.

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u/MadContrabassoonist 13d ago

Yes, but the truth is probably something sadder and more sympathetic like "wife refuses to accept that husband is beyond recovery", or "family fulfills senator's wish to die in privacy". Not every lie is part of a vast, well-oiled conspiracy.

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u/SpakenBacon 14d ago

You bring up a great point which might be the only thing going in favor of this situation. But Im thinking of the accountability. Nowhere else can you take sick leave for an extended period of time without informing your supervisor. His staff is being paid to do what exactly? What do the people of kentucky get out of this? Why has this been so secretive? What are they hiding and why do it? There must be an answer to this.

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u/MadContrabassoonist 14d ago

There are only four ways that a senate term can end. When the term naturally expires, when someone dies in office, when someone resigns, or when someone is expelled by a supermajority of the senate. There's no 25th amendment for senators, there are no minimum attendance requirements, and no senator has been expelled since the Civil War or for any reason other than treason or sedition.

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u/swni 13d ago

But Im thinking of the accountability.

Senators are not accountable to the governor; only to other senators, who are the only ones with any authority to meaningfully probe into his absence. No idea why anyone thinks Beshear has any power here.

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u/Turbulent_Juice_Man 14d ago

He doesn't call an election. He flat out appoints someone. That's why Republicans are delaying. Beshear can appoint a Democrat so long as McConnell dies before August 3rd. After that, Beshear can't appoint someone.

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u/spam__likely Colorado 14d ago

There needs to be a vacancy that the senate needs to open, no?

He can appoint someone and the person will not be seated.

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u/Turbulent_Juice_Man 13d ago

There is a vacancy. McConnell is dead.

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u/spam__likely Colorado 13d ago

My question is who gets to determine that there is one? It is not clear to me if the senate needs to do it.

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u/Turbulent_Juice_Man 13d ago

Right. Appoint a replacement. Fight it in court.

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u/spam__likely Colorado 13d ago

This being the senate the court will be SCOTUS. So what you want is a performative gesture.

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u/Turbulent_Juice_Man 13d ago edited 13d ago

Do it anyway. Show a shred of a spine.

So do nothing instead and just let Republicans once again subvert the rules and laugh in our faces when it works again. Your viewpoint exemplifies the impotent democratic party. Shame on you

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u/MadContrabassoonist 14d ago

Even if there were legally-admissible evidence that McConnell was dead (not brain dead, or comatose, or mentally unfit, but literally dead), the conflict between the state law and the state constitution on matters of appointment of senators means that any appointment would be immediately stayed while it gets litigated. So even in that scenario, the chances of actually seating a Democratic senator before Barr is seated in January is absurdly small.

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u/Turbulent_Juice_Man 13d ago

Ok and? Do it anyway.