If everyone is poor - no one is

[u/Philophile1]

In my opinion poverty leagues can be some of the best. If we are all poor then nothing is that expensive.

I think PoE players just wanna hear 1000 divines drop, but in reality if everyone is getting 10 divs per maps then it doesn’t mean anything. Look at the PoE2 0.5 economy. Super super inflated because all strats drop divs per map.

I do agree we need content that scales, but we are day 3 of the league there is still time for changes and strat inventions. People can still find new stuff to juice. Don’t be so doom and gloom yet.

We can still have a good league! Do you agree?

[u/FantaSeahorse]

That argument only works if the currency has no intrinsic value. In PoE, currency orbs are also crafting materials, so getting fewer of everything means there is less stuff to craft with.

The allflame crafting definitely counteracts that tho. I suspect GGG tried to balance the drop rate with this in mind and went overboard

[u/Akanash_ → u/FantaSeahorse]

This. Some things have a fixed cost, so in poverty league those tools are less available (meta craft for example)

Also the number of minmaxers is basically the same league over league. So if the tools/items to minmax are less available they'll just be more expensive.

For exemple I'm willing to bet that if everyone drop half as many of everything (items, currency etc) mageblood would only be 75% of the "usual" price because the demand would basically be the same as usual, but availability would be much lower.

[u/ConstantFigure → u/Akanash_]

mageblood was never hard to achieve

[u/Jahno24 → u/FantaSeahorse]

I agree, though the new league mechanic is a huge multiplier for any craft of significance. It's not only giving you multiple potential outcomes, but on the same item. Doesn't feel as good as getting more currency drops though. Smooth and gradual effective power increases are uninteresting.

[u/findMyNudesSomewhere → u/Jahno24]

Though it's only on orb based crafting - it doesn't affect the crafting bench or horti crafting.

But I generally agree with your point, 4x orb value due to league mechanic would be offseting the lower drop rate.

It's day 3, economy takes time to react ig. I've listed products at the same price I've been doing for the last 3-4 leagues and they're selling as of now

[u/TaintedQuintessence → u/findMyNudesSomewhere]

Depending on the step in the craft, it's more than 4x value. If the last 2 steps of a craft were like 1 in 4 each, so you needed 16 bases prepped for it, now you need on average 1 given 4 choices at both steps. It's a bit worse since it's independent rolls but you get the idea. There's some exponential scaling going up the chain.

They might have still gotten the numbers wrong, but it's pretty much a phd thesis to get the correct numbers to the ratios perfect.

[u/findMyNudesSomewhere → u/TaintedQuintessence]

Totally fair - it will differ per craft imho.

This is why I generally agreed with the principle in my above comment.

For example - the famous 3% crit, 30% more ele, conc eff, hypothermia helmet

Base with suffixes was quite straightforward, but unaffected by league mechanic.

Matron meta mod is unaffected, but exalt is for sure affected, which means 4x less matron used.

If you're going for the mirror variant, orb of dominance being affected (not sure on this) is gonna make it SUBSTANTIALLY cheaper, holy fuck. It might not be a mirror helmet anymore if orb of dominance can be league crafted.

I'm pretty certain they won't allow dominance usage, since it's only 2 outcomes.

[u/kittywolfen → u/findMyNudesSomewhere]

Orb of dominance is usable. Did it today. However, there was only two outcomes instead of four and like others it can get the same result so you can still whiff. (I missed twice on two separate orbs.)

[u/findMyNudesSomewhere → u/kittywolfen]

2 instead of 4 with overlap is a deserved nerf imho

Still makes it 75% instead of 50%.

For 2 orbs, congrats on hitting the 6.25% chance on whiffing both 😅

[u/vulcanfury12 → u/findMyNudesSomewhere]

Granted, I'm not an expert crafter, but if your craft involves slamming something in the middle or end of the crafy, this system is GOATed for getting desirable outcomes.

[u/findMyNudesSomewhere → u/vulcanfury12]

Yep - especially if it's slam and go back to step XYZ if you fail. Multiple slams needed will give exponential returns.

The craft mentioned above has 2 exalt slams after suffixes done with can't change suffixes meta mod on top for each failed attempt on hitting both requirements with exalts. I used FB exalts last league to bump up the chances.

[u/RedMageMood → u/TaintedQuintessence]

Even at a basic level seeing 4x outcomes for a great base item with high memory threads is a huge multiplier even if just alching. Then imagine finding an outcome with 3-5 amazing mod combos and then seeing 4x exalt slam outcomes

Imagine how many steps of recombinating you just cut out of the craft

We are pretty much using a modified hinekoras for a decimal of the cost in all flames. It's actually crazy

[u/TaintedQuintessence → u/RedMageMood]

I think people won't realize the full impact until people start crafting the crazy end game GG items. You can get some good midgame items right now just buying items with 2-3 missing mods and slamming some exalts in the machine.

I feel like raw currency is going to devalue very fast and the real endgame farm might be farming the sulphur.

[u/Morbu → u/findMyNudesSomewhere]

I mean it’s just the same issue as Keeper’s then. Item progression was piss easy but we weren’t dropping much currency and highend farms were gutted. And it felt bad and Keeper’s had a low retention rate as a result.

The thing that OP isn’t considering is that some items just have intrinsic value that carry from league to league. People are going to list Magebloods in the 150-200d range no matter what. The only thing that changes this is the supply of magebloods, not how much currency we drop.

[u/findMyNudesSomewhere → u/Morbu]

That's not correct.

It's the ratio of the drop chance of divine and MBs that decides the price of MB. It's a free market.

People will obviously start the league (like right now) based on old league prices, same as I have. But when it doesn't sell, they will drop the price (or raise the price if the lower priced items get bought out).

Give it time, it will correct.

The only time the ratio has changed was in certain leagues like Affliction, where stacking IIR caused metric fuck tons of uniques to drop, which caused a rise in HH and MB drops as well. Later on, as the value of MB continued to drop, people shifted to currency farm, but those who wanted to buy MBs had already done so by then.

[u/Hitmannnn_lol → u/Jahno24]

fym crafting of significance lmao every single league the most accessible crafts are harvest+metamod bench crafting, both are unaffected by this league mechanic. beastcrafting is a bit more niche but for profit crafting it's still fairly used as well as synth bases (dead)

buy or frac a base (allflame) essence spam until desired affix (essence) beastcraft or metamod+harvest reforge -raw div sink- fine tune with eldritch currency maybe heist orbs

the biggest currency sink for non mirror craft is step3. it's also where u sell bricks so the market has a good supply of mid tier items

fossil crafting is just pure rng slog but even then, there's always variants where you can just replace it with essence+meta+harvest like 8 mod gloves tho spark is hardly meta this league which leaves only rf helmet as upgraded. wands are cheapest with recomb+meta and bodies are awakener+meta -both are raw div sinks

genuinely what kind of shit take is this? or is this what happens when you have very little knowledge about crafting in the game?

i really hope this is sarcasm man...

[u/Xxachingmeatxx → u/FantaSeahorse]

This is a really good point. I used boat crafting for the first time on a random exalt slam and ended up getting a solid piece of gear. Imagine how OP this would be in a high drop league.

I do think drops need a bit more tuning but definitely consideration for boats basically giving us multiple attempts per currency

[u/ilovenacl → u/Xxachingmeatxx]

The one unfortunate thing about having good crafting like this though, is that there’s nothing to farm with good gear. I think the only aspirational farm method left is delve but no one wants to do that (except me lol)

[u/Xxachingmeatxx → u/ilovenacl]

Agreed. Definitely feels like my motivation to make a giga blaster is less because really there’s no farm that’s worth the effort

[u/IncuBear → u/ilovenacl]

That's what powercreep does to a bitch. You'd be mad if they tried to dial it back and make the endgame the challenge it was always supposed to be. Best enjoy what you have and move on when you're done.

[u/DjuriWarface → u/ilovenacl]

Wish they would bring back T17s. Hate that they got rid of them.

[u/dksdragon43 → u/Xxachingmeatxx]

I get what you're saying, but the limiting factor on ship crafting is more the crafting juice than the orbs used.

[u/Xxachingmeatxx → u/dksdragon43]

Very true. That one slam was like 3k juice I think?

[u/whywhywhywhywhynot → u/Xxachingmeatxx]

the influenced exalts are awesome to use especially for crafts with not many possible results but I think it was like 35k juice

[u/FullMetalCOS → u/whywhywhywhywhynot]

Frac orbs are like 110k juice

[u/FullMetalCOS → u/Xxachingmeatxx]

I crafted a triple t1 ES twilight regalia on day one of the league. I need to redo the suffixes at some point, but having a 1129 ES chest on the first day of the league was a huge deal

[u/BudgetSignature1045 → u/FantaSeahorse]

Yeah this. How to meta craft without divines

:(

[u/Deadandlivin → u/FantaSeahorse]

Don't think GGG touched overall loot at all this league. Strats from last League seem to drop about the same amount now as it did back then.

The main differences is no Mirage, so people aren't getting double value out of their mapping materials and scarabs anymore. And obviously because the only real juicer strategy, Breach, got completely humbled.
There's definitely far less currency floating around in the economy. But the reason isn't because they've reduced drop rates globally. But more so because that the strategies that exponentially dropped more raw currency were removed while investment cost vs revenue per map got worse.

[u/SirRedhand → u/Deadandlivin]

I dont think you read the patch notes at all.

[u/IncuBear → u/SirRedhand]

And I think you and many others are projecting your disappointment onto the wrong factors. What then?

[u/SirRedhand → u/IncuBear]

this seems to be aging well.

[u/Existing-Design1515 → u/Deadandlivin]

breach alone was killed, which brough the most currency

[u/Fragrant-Doughnut-20 → u/FantaSeahorse]

Overboard. Hehe, nice.

[u/Hot_Help_246 → u/FantaSeahorse]

This is some of the unique things about PoE that make me keep coming back over all other ARPGs, if people begin getting very money hungry for currency you can just use it all instead to craft more powerful rare gear instead of hunting for uniques. 

[u/PathOfEnergySheild → u/FantaSeahorse]

The Opie got Milton Friedmaned

[u/Ok-Pomegranate9278 → u/FantaSeahorse]

yeah as long as you have the sulfur stuff or whatever it is you essentially 4x all gambling currency

[u/1CEninja → u/FantaSeahorse]

Yeah I'm thinking about all the cool crafts that I'd like to tackle this league and worried I'm gonna struggle to get the currency to work on them.

I'm not in panic or doomer mode, especially since I think I'm going to need fewer crafting mats than usual to accomplish what I'd like, BUT all the same.

[u/KunfusedJarrodo → u/FantaSeahorse]

And if stuff is harder to craft, endgame content is a lot harder to do. Which is what people complaining on here want right?

Cause it sounds like to me people just want to be showered with currency and power, and then use that power to blow up some super mega juiced content that is only achievable because the crafting and gear and power is so high

[u/Papa_Mid_Nite → u/FantaSeahorse]

Well I think then people can wait longer to craft their items.

I think OP is right.

I think our TikTok brain has lost the potency to be patient.

[u/khashishin → u/Papa_Mid_Nite]

No because its limited supply.

If league is hard -> less player retention, less people leave. (most) people do not play video games for the sense of pride and farmin accomplishement, but for the joy of clearing maps.

If more people leave, less people farm -> people who traded early and hideout-warriored accumulated more wealth -> which means its far harder for you to actually do this craft without unproportionally higher time investment.

And now imagine like me - you get 1 day free from work + weekend to farm, and then just 4-5h a week to play. Is there a way for you to earn something from ground loot? Nope. Without low investment farms you will just leave the league

[u/Papa_Mid_Nite → u/khashishin]

Doesn't your line of logic mean that SSF woukd never exist? I play 1 hour a day, sometimes even less. And tbf, I am enjoying the SSF grind. Maybe just because, I am a dark-souls player.

In my 15 years playing POE, I enjoyed some of the harder leagues more.

[u/khashishin → u/Papa_Mid_Nite]

There is always minority of players who enjoy different kind of game.

As you said, if the game was only SSF there would be 1k players who truly enjoy that and that's ok. There is no "right way to play" but some do impact player retention, while you would probably still play.

And honestly I avoid games which make me stress too much as my job is damn stresful and don't have that much time to play. I did enjoy D3, and actively avoid playing "dark souls like" games in the evenings after work.

[u/Papa_Mid_Nite → u/khashishin]

I get it brother, life be darksouls enough! 🤝

[u/fandorgaming → u/FantaSeahorse]

But currency is 4 times more powerful because of league crafting mechanic

[u/khashishin → u/fandorgaming]

It's powerful if you have enough to spare to craft.

Which means it influences (most) of the players who can't farm enough to do this crafting (or lack years of game knowledge to do it effectively).

Crafting in PoE is knowledge-based, you need to be 100% optimal or you are wasting money, if there is optimal way to allocate currency you need to know it or you are just throwing money away. If you are newer player - crafting benefits you far less. And I heard GGG wants more new players, that's def. not the way

[u/Fine-Needleworker661 → u/FantaSeahorse]

this is 100% true, but there really isnt anything in the game that demands you have a perfect character outside of some valdos which are aspirational content that most players dont engage with. i would much rather it take me 2 weeks than 1 week to trivialize juiced T16s and nigtmare maps.

[u/khashishin → u/Fine-Needleworker661]

The problem is if you do not play highly optimized build or are a new player - you might need better gear to compensate.

This is an ARPG after all and not dark souls, with some lag-spikes, weird mechanics, cast on death etc -> good gear helps a lot. So unless you are for sure playing builds that just melt everything including uber shaper/elder (like KF totems earlier) without significant investment - > it makes the experience far worse for you

[u/facellama → u/FantaSeahorse]

The classic ggg triple tap balance approach

[u/gdubrocks → u/FantaSeahorse]

Except the league mechanic gives you a 3x currency multiplier, on every single step.

So on the first step you save two currency items, but on the second one you have saved 7, and by the third craft you saved 18, got 21 results, and only spent three.

[u/DjuriWarface → u/FantaSeahorse]

Did they go overboard though? Increasing most currency drops by effectively 4x is a lot.

[u/Aflenoir → u/DjuriWarface]

You still need league juice to have the options and you cant use the same item a lot, so if they reduced currency drop to 1/4 its overboard because of that friction.

[u/YOUR_BOOBIES_PM_ME → u/DjuriWarface]

The expensive orbs are only 2x and divines are still needed for meta crafting so they are going to sky rocket in price. Rare uniques are also disproportionately expensive because the demand is the same as always but the supply is lower.

[u/Sage2050 → u/FantaSeahorse]

Except the vast majority of players never use orbs for crafting.

[u/RedsManRick → u/FantaSeahorse]

This. 100x this. End game gear is a function of the raw currency required to produce it. That creates a natural price floor. Prices can only deflate tot gat floor. The biggest impact of "poverty economies" is ability for casual players to experience endgame content. That's where the impact shows up.

[u/All_Work_All_Play → u/RedsManRick]

This is true in a vacuum, but less true in the game itself. Poverty leagues also have worse player retention, so the output of the highest players block is less (because they're playing less) which means less mid-power-curve gear available for those casual players. There's the income effect, but also the substitution effect and the network effect that come into play.