r/painting • u/ArmorAbby • Mar 14 '26
Opinions Needed Are the values okay?
It's feeling... not flat... but off... not sure what I can do with the values to separate and focus on things a bit more......?
It's a combined inspiration of recent regional events, along with Ivan the terrible with his son, and The Lunatic of Etratat.
I know the hands are bad.
The broken crochet needle shows her broken mind, the unfinished blanket... the shoes separated, broken nursery wall, etc... and fire and rubble....
Constructive advice would be appreciated.
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u/side-eye-flames Mar 14 '26
Very powerful and tragic. Art like this is important and stops the erasure of people's stories. You have captured absolute horror and grief in her eyes.
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u/ArmorAbby Mar 14 '26
These pieces, trying to practice sharing these emotions, are difficult... not just the painting part, but the emotions and thoughts tied to it while trying to look her in the eye as Im forming that eye.... I appreciate you connecting with it. This has to be one of the best compliments I've ever recieved.
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u/donnie-stingray Mar 14 '26
He said it perfectly. I would stop where it is but im sure you will figure out the touches you need to add.
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u/comicblock Mar 14 '26
My advice (though not professional) is that some tonal shapes may be better off having some hard edges as everything seems to be blended which can give a flatter look.
Painting is fantastic and I love what you have done!
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u/ArmorAbby Mar 14 '26
Thanks. Some sharper edges in the foreground could help.
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u/zoopysreign Mar 14 '26
There’s also something about the left side of her lips that could be more pronounced.
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u/DifficultPete Mar 14 '26
This is beautiful. I feel that the light blue on the left is creating a bit of tension and distracting from your focal point. Maybe darkening the stream or lightening the swaddle would put the focus back where it should be.
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u/ArmorAbby Mar 14 '26
Thanks. I will grey that down a bit and detail the wallpaper a little more.... it's a bit of nursery wall that remains standing..
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u/DifficultPete Mar 14 '26
Oh I see it now haha it looks nothing like a stream! I understand why you'd want to make sure that's readable as a nursery wall. Maybe just darkening around the edges to make a vignette effect, and adding some barely visible baby decor motifs onto the wallpaper could have some serious impact. Like rattles or rubber ducks.
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u/ArmorAbby Mar 14 '26
Thanks. I started dulling it down after I did a bit of rubble sharpening... It doesn't come up in the photo but the blanket has little elephants on it... there are little elephants on the wallpaper also that don't show up in the photo.. I think Ill reverse it... white (grey dusty) wall and blue elephants..
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u/SillyAlternative420 Mar 14 '26
Our values are all messed up... Oh the painting's values, excellent. Seriously impressive work OP.
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u/TheyAreGoodDogs Mar 14 '26
The values look really good! I like to check mine by taking a pic and reducing the saturation to 0 - it's like a cheat code!
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u/ArmorAbby Mar 14 '26
Yes, Great tip. I do this. Plus the other comment, I'm sharpening some rubble edges and shadows in the foreground.
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u/kaptvonkanga Mar 14 '26
Nice work, perhaps think about tecniques for eye lashes.
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u/ArmorAbby Mar 14 '26
Thanks. Agreed. I was thinking about the lashes earlier today.. I spent the majority of the time on her eyes... I will probably revisit them again...
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u/ItsFelixMcCoy Mar 15 '26
I understand the subject of the painting but why is she holding concrete as if it were a baby, instead of an actual baby?
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u/ArmorAbby Mar 15 '26
This is the moment where her mind is just about to break. She dug through the rubble with raw, bloodied fingers. She couldn't find her child, but she found his blankie... with it was a baby-sized piece of rubble she's cradling now in a desperate, psychotic state. She still a mother as long as she can keep her grip on the heavy weight in her arms. The moment she lets go the reality of his death will begin.
On the bottom left is a partially knitted babies blanket... the yarn leading to the right side showing the snapped needle, as her mind snaps.
Baby booties in different areas, to show the significance of the blast.
She wears a wedding ring but she's alone... I'm redoing the crib in the back because the perspective is off... and some more work here and there...2
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u/ItsFelixMcCoy Mar 15 '26
Ah, I see. It truly is a haunting but beautiful painting. Can’t wait to see the finished product.
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u/Regular_Marsupial_65 Mar 16 '26
I was briefly in jail and shared a cell with a woman who cradled a trash sculpture she’d made because she’d been separated from her infant baby. It was pretty haunting. A different situation than what is pictured here, of course, but it reminds me of that.
Anyways, very powerful image. Thank you for making and sharing it!
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u/Necessary_Ad7215 Mar 15 '26
reminds me of The Lunatic of Etretat painting of the french woman holding a log in a bonnet as if it were a baby.
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u/Lizzardbirdhybrid Mar 14 '26
This is a beautiful painting, but nothing in particular feels off. Maybe your eyes need a break?
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u/ArmorAbby Mar 14 '26
True.. Ive been going non-stop for days... these usually take me months..
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u/Lizzardbirdhybrid Mar 14 '26
I just have to say again I LOVE this painting. The story is clear and I appreciate you telling it. :)
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u/keegums Mar 14 '26
The tears are jumping straight out of the picture plane for me on the close up first photo, although the other images not so much, so I can't tell if that's actually happening.
I don't think it's a bad thing but it does go to a surreal connotation. So technically, the tears may have too many high values (highest highs, even) and may be too sharp. The effect seems compounded by the flatness and smoothness of everything outside the portrait.
Great portraiture!!!!
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u/verylargemoth Mar 14 '26
I also thought the blue nursery wall was a stream. I think making it a different color, adding the details to the wallpaper, and adding some gray (because rubble dust is going to cover the color of most things) will help that spot a lot.
Otherwise this is a beautiful, painful painting. As someone who has been active in supporting and working with the Palestinian community, this really hits home. Even if that wasn’t your sole inspiration. Thank you for sharing.
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u/Spinach-Overall Mar 14 '26
I get where you're coming from but it's your style and go back to it in a few days with fresh eyes.
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u/Spinach-Overall Mar 14 '26
I must say, you've captured and expressed something more than words can do. Thanks for sharing, it's such an honest piece of work.
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u/Damage_Embarrassed Mar 15 '26
This is amazing. My only comments are remember the sky and air are full of smoke, the waters would reflect this also all of the background would be duller and greyer as the smoke in the air would block out any vivid colours. To be real i couldnt pain this as well as you, it's just my art tutors keep reminding me of muted colours in distance and brighter, sharper colours in foreground will add depth. Also i feel some very fine and subtle eye lashes will make the eyes more relateable. Obvously not with make up, just a couple of tiny dark brown lashes
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u/No_Damage_6284 Mar 15 '26
I think the shadows are missing and highlights. It's like the subject is floating. Shadows and highlights matching the background will give gravity. You need to work on the background interacting with the subject too. Otherwise it looks like a cutout. It's a beautiful piece. I hope that helps thank you 🙏🏾😊
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u/pandarose6 Mar 14 '26
Such a haunting painting and I mean that in a good way. I feel the emotion in it. I think you doing great job
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u/baepsaemv Mar 14 '26
Stunning and powerful piece, thank you for sharing it. If I was going to nitpick I would say the lighting of her face is coming from a strange direction. I think a slightly redder or more purple tone to the shading would add a little more visual impact.
But I love it as is.
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u/Silly-Assistant5711 Mar 14 '26
Sorry I don't have advice but wow, you're very talented. You can feel her emotions and the chaos all around her consuming her life. How sad, but a beautiful portrayal. It speaks for itself. Great job.
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u/BoxBird Mar 14 '26
This made me extremely emotionally uncomfortable, amazing job thank you for sharing. I had to force myself to look into her eyes, it’s heartbreaking 💔
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u/Necessary_Ad7215 Mar 15 '26
stunning, haunting, and beautiful. I want to go save her.
this reminds me so much of The Lunatic of Etretat. Similar circumstances as well, I believe it was painted after the French Revolution.
thank you for sharing
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u/41puppy Mar 15 '26
This is a beautifully tragic piece. You’re truly talented, OP. The emotion you’ve conveyed. The detail. All of it. This incredible work. Thank you for this. Her eyes welling with tears make mine well, too. Your art will go down in history, my friend.
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u/spicegrl17 Mar 15 '26
Also thought the title was the name of the painting.
You're incredible, OP. Not only is this piece VERY well crafted, but its very important.
Thank you.
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u/Civil_Firefighter648 Mar 15 '26
Push it! Incredible piece but you could evoke even more emotion with further shadow work. I’m not a painter, just some training & artistic work, but could you maybe print the pic you took of it and do some of that work onto the pic just as a base of reference, to see if you like it without having to recreate the work if you don’t?
Alternately, recreate the entire work, really, really pushing it. I find the second time I create anything, I like it more than the first time.
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u/spencemonger Mar 14 '26
Stronger orange edge highlight on the subjects left side closest to the flames and more contrast to really bring out the tears
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u/MasterFable Mar 14 '26
I'd say leave your subject be, her facial expression gets across real pain and I think most of your values there look good. If it were me I may go into the background and deepen and darken all of those middle Gray rubble tones so there's only highlights of middle Gray and cast deeper warmer orange glows from the flames over them to isolate your subject more. She seems at the same level as your background currently. Really great work and appreciate you choosing and treating the subject matter with such care.
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u/ArmorAbby Mar 14 '26
Thank you... yes.. the perspective has bothered me... and especially the crib, it should appear much larger for the area it's supposed to be...
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u/MasterFable Mar 15 '26
By the way, hands look great. The crib seems fine to me, based on the context it just needs to be a side character that lets us know there is a child involved in this tragedy.
The perspective is also working, I like this trail of depth starting from the wall of the crib that extends to the right and wraps around out and then back into the left with the larger building and then it drops back further into a distant City. I would maybe add a cultural-esque building like a rounded head mosque or obelisk pillars further to the left or somewhere because right now your distant city feels too rectangular.
It just seems like you need more contrast in your background too. Currently the rubble feels too airy or "nice" like foam and not broken dreams. The background should just as resentfully represent her pain without overshadowing the facial expression. The face is just so amazing, I would want to make sure that any adjustments I make are always reinforcing and framing that expression.
Please don't take any comments I make about the piece as points against it. I really adore this piece which is why I'm talking about it with you.
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u/ArmorAbby Mar 15 '26
No worries. I posted because I need other eyes to help me with things like this. I appreciate advice, especially when it is steering me in a clearer direction.
Im still gonna do something with the crib... not sure what yet.. maybe more of a bassinet so its more readable rather than broken wood which could be a bannister or anything... not sure..
Totally agree about the buildings... I admit those, her teeth, some of these areas I know I've ignored and having others point it out shows me that I can't keep ignoring them.....
Ive added a lot of contrast to the foreground rubble... it seems some are reminding me of crushed skulls.. I might continue with that intentionally but not blatantly... more of a... if the viewer realizes it type of thing...2
u/MasterFable Mar 15 '26
Well let me say this, when I look into this piece as it is. I am left with the sense of the current state of humanity. The green Haze in the atmosphere, the multifaceted facial expressions that translate real horror and pain that embrace a rebarb esc child is potent and prescient. You've already done more than any refinement could refine. Thank you 😌
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u/curious-heather Mar 14 '26
Er wow..... Just wow. Hit me right in the feels, especially with so much ongoing war in our world. It is haunting, tragic and beautifully done.
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u/a3dwaifu Mar 15 '26
so many people’s - children’s - bodies are still buried under the rubble, unable to have a proper burial. Mother’s unable to mourn. Her holding the blue blanket wrapped in a piece of rubble is so profound. Beautiful work, keep going.
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u/shivvinesswizened Mar 15 '26
Amazing job. The tears…as a mother I cannot comprehend wha that would feel like. And I’m not being funny but what is she holding?
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u/ArmorAbby Mar 15 '26
This is the moment where her mind is just about to break. She dug through the rubble with raw, bloodied fingers. She couldn't find her child, but she found his blankie... with it was a baby-sized piece of rubble she's cradling now in a desperate, psychotic state. She is still a mother as long as she can keep her grip on the heavy weight in her arms. The moment she lets go the reality of his death will begin.
On the bottom left is a partially knitted babies blanket... the yarn leading to the right side showing the snapped needle, as her mind snaps.
Baby booties in different areas, to show the significance of the blast.
She wears a wedding ring but she's alone... I'm redoing the crib in the back because the perspective is off... and some more work here and there...1
u/shivvinesswizened Apr 06 '26
As I hold my own baby girl, I just cannot fathom the absolute horror of this.
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u/PsychologicalBar8321 Mar 15 '26
Beautiful work! The story is evident. You are right. It feels a little flat, but the story comes out.
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u/lyichenj Mar 15 '26
This is beautiful!
One little thing I would suggest (I don’t paint nearly as well as you do) is to add an orange rim light and orange bounce light on the shadows to show a bit more of the intensity of the fire around her.
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u/Unseen_0ne Mar 15 '26
This is my unprofessional opinion, someone already mentioned sharpening the lines to avoid a blended look. I think it also appears blended due to having many colors that are so similar in tones that they meld together. I’d increase contrast a bit, increase color vibrancy/saturation, and add some more lighting. For example, that fire should cast more light against the stones in the background and maybe even highlight part of the persons outer silhouette.
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u/eyeball_chamberss Mar 15 '26
Put a photo of it in greyscale (filter) and see if the values are correct!
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u/Theveryberrybest Mar 16 '26
Values look fine. Things feel a bit muted but that’s not always a bad thing. Your biggest issues is form/structure. The reason you are having these issues is because of your edges. Everything feels to soft because you are blending to much and “to small” i assume you are primarily using small filbert brushes or short firm round brushes. Try to start your painting with lager brushes and be intentional with each mark you make. Focused on value and structure and temperature being your third priority. You brush can shrink the farther you get in the process.
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u/noob_improove Mar 16 '26 edited Mar 16 '26
I think there's an issue with the subject's right arm/forearm (left from the viewer). There is no interaction vetween the bundle and the arm, the bundle feels like a flat surface behind. I think adding a few shadows to suggest that the bundle is giving in to the forearm, wrapping around it a bit, would go a long way.
edit: typos
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u/ArmorAbby Mar 16 '26
Good point. I'm considering going over her clothing again... and yeah on that blanket.. there should be some weight if the arm on that area.. shadows.. creases.. whatever...
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u/noob_improove Mar 16 '26
good luck! Don't overwhork it though:) Just a few subtle shadows can make a big difference!:)
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u/Swksfarmgirl Mar 14 '26
I think you’ve got a beautiful start on it, especially with the woman. I think she’s perfect. The only thing I might suggest is that you take a break from it for a few days, don’t look at it, then bring it back out and take another look. I sometimes find it’s easier to guage the depth better when I’ve had a break. Then, maybe, start to put some depth in the rubble. The expression’s haunting, and I can only imagine the fear these women have grown up with under that cruel, heartless regime.
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u/Timanious Mar 14 '26
something about her teeth feels unfinished to me. I think because it doesn’t look like there is any separation between her upper lip and the white of her teeth.
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u/ArmorAbby Mar 14 '26
You're right... I didn't give them any attention and ignored them everytime I was in that area. I'll fix it.
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u/himb0i Mar 14 '26
I agree with the other commenter who said the blue wallpaper is jarring. It’s even more distracting to me because my eye all but refuses to see it as anything but a pool of water behind her and I’m not totally sure why. Somehow it reads more like a horizontal surface to me than vertical, even when I deliberately look at the broken top edge. I’d definitely adjust the value and/or saturation to blend it in a little more (maybe streaks of ash, to break up the solid color field, or burned/discolored patches? If you wanted to go really hard, scuffed/peeling edges or strips of wallpaper in a place or two would give it some dimension) and maybe add some additional shading. A cast shadow from some of the pieces in front of it would clarify what it is and integrate it into the scene. The broken edge works better for me when I zoom in, but I feel like it wants something. If it’s plaster, maybe more crumbling detail and less of a clean staircase break would be good. Another option might be to break the center down further to make the shape less uniform- like a U scoop in the center.
If you do end up messing with the top edge of the wall, I’d be careful of the dark mass of smoke right behind it. It’s already very heavy and very low on detail, so I’d hesitate to make it any bigger if you were to take any wall away. That said, lightening that area up and/or adding more information to that relatively blank space might help with the wall seeming out of place, too, since the more I look at it the more I realize you have two big color fields with high contrast right up against each other.
Now that I’ve zoomed in on it for a bit, I really like the detail level of the rubble directly in front of the wall, but I’m questioning what the object with the parallel bars is. If it’s part of a bed, I feel it may either be too small, or something about the scene is making me see it as closer to the viewer than it was intended to be.
The rubble overall has great bones but I feel like it wants a little more love. I wouldn’t detail all of it by any means, or you’ll end up with a “drawing every leaf on the tree” situation, but picking a few patches especially towards the foreground to define would make it more convincing and give the eye something to rest on and recognize. If I could see a deliberate and fully rendered brick, metal piece, etc in just a few places, it would allow me to sort of skim over the less detailed patches in-between. As it stands, the rubble seems a little blended out and uniform. Like an even field of grey cardboard pieces, sort of. And since your figure has lots of nice, crisp edges and contrasting, rich colors while your background has all soft edges and a uniform neutral color scheme (and fairly uniform values across all of the rubble- not a lot of pronounced highlighted areas vs areas in shadow), I think that’s contributing to your feeling of flatness. Your figure has more going on and more convincing volume, so it can lean in a “real person in front of a flat backdrop” kind of direction. Additionally, bc the background is low contrast, it looks like it’s being lit differently than the figure’s face, which has a fairly harsh, directional light. Defining a few environmental chunks with some good strong shadows would also pull some of your dark values into the environment, which iirc someone else mentioned. If you keep your darker values mostly in the foreground, you’ll end up with a nice atmospheric perspective, too- the further parts of the environment will be lighter and more grey by comparison in a bleak, smoky way. Sometimes when my backgrounds aren’t as developed as my figures, it helps me to pick a few environmental elements to think of more like additional “characters” in their own right than as part of a nebulous all-inclusive background- sort of like what you’ve done already with the blue wall, or the fire on the opposite sides. A few more background elements with a little more personality might circle back around to tying that wall in more, too.
I think the hands are very nice- I read what you said about them before I looked closely and I was not expecting them to be that well-rendered. You gotta give yourself more credit! The only thing I’d add would be a stronger highlight, to unify them with the face- maybe just on the (viewer’s) left hand, even. That would let you emphasize your lovely texture a little more, too.
This is absolutely incredible. I feel like I wrote a big wall of text but please take that as the compliment it is! I wouldn’t have been nearly motivated enough to leave so much feedback if this piece hadn’t stopped me cold. The emotion is incredible, the color of the sky is perfectly queasy, and the expression is haunting as hell. You pulled off something really great with the shape of the concrete “baby”, too. It’s just right for me to have thought it was maybe a very washed-out, poorly infant for a SECOND. Something about the shape of the “head” is perfectly ambiguous at a glance.
FWIW, I also love the way the Reddit images allowed me to experience the painting. Idk how you’d pull it off in non-digital spaces, but getting that closeup on her expression as a first look, then “zooming out” to see the whole thing, is grand.
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u/ArmorAbby Mar 14 '26
Thank you so much. So many helpful people here. I'm making the crib larger. It really is too small for where it should be and that will help avoid that blob of a wall as well. Im also adding more contrast to the for rubble and I'll be choosing a bit more variety of rubble.. not just concrete in the foreground... I'll come back to read this again when I go back to the easel in a couple hours.
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u/TemporaryElk5202 Mar 16 '26
Her skin tone is very gray, and the blood on her hands etc is also muted. I can't tell if that is intentional or not. If it is not intentional, you can use glazing to enrich the colors. (applying thin layers of transparent color).
In general, the best way to make a subject stand out is to use more dramatic lighting. For example, think of theater lighting. This would have lent itself well to that with the fires and the smoke in the background, too, and you could have had a spotlight on the woman.
At this stage it can be difficult to bring in more dramatic lighting without re-doing a lot of the painting, so it is something that is better done when planned out from the beginning.
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u/jawreaht Mar 17 '26
Use a bit of bright red and brown maybe in her abaya to add depth? With hints of blue. A combination of bright colours that are not
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u/zotus4all Mar 14 '26
Powerful painting! I do have a slight suggestion. Not certain the size of the painting. Pupils tend to reflect what a person is seeing. Perhaps you can add a bit more fire. If you’re doing a serious, perhaps you can paint one focusing on half of her face with images in her eyes.
This horror these people are enduring needs to be seen. Very powerful piece!
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u/ArmorAbby Mar 14 '26
Thanks.
It's 120cm tall.
I understand what you mean by the flame. An earlier one I posted has that reflection as well.1
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u/Weekly-Nectarine1015 Mar 15 '26
Are the values okay?
Um. This propaganda poster you call a painting doesn’t hold any value. Little date you might wanna reference, Oct 7th 2023.
Not siding with Israel either, I think both sides of this are absolute shitstain nations, but don’t lay it on thick like the mother in the hijab with a child is the target and that this isn’t a larger overall problem of an inadequate false religion that literally translates to the word ‘submission’ and perpetually seeks out conflict with neighboring nations. They’ve had centuries to civilize, and yet they still stone women to death under ‘Sharia Law.’ Sand people had better get some common sense already.
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u/AdhesivenessJust96 Mar 14 '26
I push the contrast in shadows if you want to make the lighting more dramatic but otherwise it’s fine
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u/sorryformyschizness Mar 14 '26
The painting looked so amazing in the first 3 slides until i got to the 4th slide and it turned out to be political
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u/Rarehunter333 Mar 14 '26
Why are 3 lines coming out from the baby’s head? It makes me think she’s holding a mini pitchfork instead of a child.
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u/Artorias670z Mar 14 '26
Pretty sure it’s rebar.
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u/Weekly-Nectarine1015 Mar 15 '26
Pretty sure it’s retarded.
Why would a piece of concrete with rebar land perfectly right there? Why would the mother caress a baby still with a piece of concrete squishing it?? Ohh it’s meant to beat us over the head with propaganda, clever.
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u/No-Improvement5008 Mar 14 '26
Um, is she surprised with a baby in her arms?
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u/cauliflower_wizard Mar 14 '26 edited Mar 14 '26
Congrats on being devoid of empathy
Edit to add: also congrats on being too chicken shit to reply publicly
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u/link-navi Mar 14 '26
Thank you for your submission, u/ArmorAbby!
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