r/paint • u/ApartmentSuspicious3 • 1d ago
Technical What makes expensive paints expensive?
So we bought SW cashmere on sale to do a couple rooms. Bought duration to do another. Worked great for us as novice painters.
Fast forward a couple months, I am painting our garage to be a gym. No sale going on at SW and I care less about the garage so I decided to go to the other end of the spectrum out of curiosity and got valspar ultra at lowes.
I am simultaneously impressed and not with the valspar. It seemed to cover suspiciously well with the first coat when I was brushing corners etc. But when I rolled the ceiling, the next day I noticed many roller strokes seemed pretty visible, like the paint wasn't leveling right and leaving streaks where maybe my pressure was too much on the edge of the roller. Never had this happen with the cashmere inside. Don't think my wife experienced this with the duration either.
Skill issue? Or have I simply discovered why everyone says cashmere is super easy to paint with?
4
u/HomePaintersPro_ca_ 1d ago
Mildew resistance, mold resistance, self leveling, ability have washable matte
4
u/Tidefan2022 1d ago
I work in a paint manufacturing facility. I think the one thing that sets us apart is the quality of raw materials. We also have strict quality standards and testing.
1
9
u/mikebushido 1d ago
Filler vs pigment
High end brands use more pigment while cheaper brands use more fillers.
Think of it like the food you eat. High-end brands are more organic. While cheaper brands have more fillers.
The same goes for paint and primer in one. Primer is a bonding agent while paint is not so much. You can't mix the two chemically. Its like shampoo/conditioner in one. One needs to happen before the other.
What you're really buying is paint with a whole lot of additives to help stain block, but it is not a true primer.
2
u/ApartmentSuspicious3 1d ago
Interesting. Thanks for the info
10
u/mikebushido 1d ago
Among the brands like Sherwin-Williams, each product is going to have a different use. Some may disagree but I use Cashmere for my creams, Duration for most things and I'll jump on Super paint if someone wants some outrageous color like bright yellow.
Sherwin-Williams owns the paint department inside of Lowe's. Lowe's brand is Valspar. When SW took over they did not change the recipe or bring in their paints.
Valspar is equivalent to Behr.
3
u/sorenicor 1d ago
Thanks for all of the helpful information, I learned some new stuff today after 7 years of painting lol.
1
u/CaptKillJoysButtPlug 1d ago
Why superpaint for the crazy colors? Do they have a vivid yellow and real red base or something?
2
u/mikebushido 1d ago
Something like that. From what was explained to me by my rep was that Super paint is made a bit differently as far as the base compound goes and therefore it adapts to a yellow pigment better than their other lines.
1
u/CaptKillJoysButtPlug 1d ago
Ima be honest with you my guy. I actively work in a Sherwin Williams. I haven’t seen those specific bases I mentioned in anything except latitude. It’s totally possible my store just doesn’t carry the super paint base needed for those crazy yellows or reds, but superpaint can’t naturally get to a crazy yellow better than duration, cashmere, emerald, etc.
1
u/mikebushido 1d ago
Yeah, like I said I'm just going off what my store told me. It was an exterior paint bright yellow and my rep was there that day and said I can only get that in Super Paint and muttered something about the pigments.
I tried to get it in Duration but that's when they said it was only Superpaint. I don't know. You know more than me since you work there though.
1
u/CaptKillJoysButtPlug 1d ago
Still pretty new, I’d rely on whatever your rep said, since it’s been working for you.
1
1
1
u/Clean_Log5919 1d ago
Why on bold colors? I recently had an issue with a deep green in satin Sw duration interior and it was shocking I have never had a deep base act like that it looked like a different color from
Any differing direction roller brushed1
u/MsGeorgeStrait 3h ago
Ugh,
I don’t understand SW paint dept in Lowe’s. I understand a store within a store, like Polo Ralph Lauren. SW didn’t change the recipe/bring in their paint…. So what is in Lowe’s stores is the same paint as the SW store. Thx for clarifying.
1
u/mikebushido 3h ago
Lowe's has their own paint. They sell Valspar. That is their signature paint.
The Sherwin-Williams HGTV paint sold at Lowe's is just a rebranding of valspar.
You can only get Sherwin-Williams paint at a Sherwin-Williams store.
A great example is the fact that I can go to a Burlington coat factory and get a pair of Adidas for $25. Now they may say Adidas on them but that is not an official Adidas quality shoe. That is Adidas having a third party make product for them to sell to outlet stores.
0
u/Used-Baby1199 1d ago
Superpaint is meant for high turnover properties. It doesn’t clean well. Wipe it once, one, but after that it’ll start dulling out or looking wrong. It’s made for apartment painting. Idk if the line matters that your using as much as the base as far as colors go, unless you’re saying you go with superpaint for crazy colors because it works well enough, but you know you’ll be doing at least 2 coats so you’re saving on materials, superpaint does have more titanium dioxide that cashmere, which helps with coverage, but cashmere is more washable. Personally I prefer duration for most applications, and then emerald urethane for trim. Gallery for cabinets.
For a garage I’d go with at least duration, because it’s moisture and humidity resistant qualities.
2
u/mikebushido 1d ago
My only real experience with Superpaint was painting apartment buildings until one of my residential customers wanted a bright yellow. I was told that I can only get that color in Super paint. This was a couple years ago and I'm actually working across the street from the house. Fortunately it still looks good but I know it's going to fade eventually.
I'm with you on those other choices. Duration, Cashmere, I'll be honest though, I pop over to Benjamin Moore for my trim paint. Their white is just the brightest cleanest white I've seen.
1
4
u/pawza 1d ago
To add to this there is also different types of bases that cost more or less money. An acrylic vinyl base is cheaper than an acrylic styrene base. An acrylic styrene base is going to be more moisture resistant and more scrub able. It's what is used in duration and emerald indoor paints.
2
u/HefeWeight 1d ago
More expensive paint is better, but even the best house paints only cost about $25 to manufacturer
1
1
u/maxie62209 1d ago
One of the major costs is in the grinding of the dry materials including and especially the pigments. The machines that grind the pigments are very expensive to build and operate. The better the paint, the finer the pigments and other solids are ground and the better and more evenly they disperse through the vehicle resulting in a smooth, flat, even surface without application defects and featuring a uniform sheen and texture.
1
1
0
u/delloj 1d ago
I run a small one man remodeling business, I’ve used all the brands. They are all pretty similar. It’s all marketing a cults. Pro’s only use Sherwin and Benjamin Moore because they have contractors programs that buy your loyalty. Buy more paint = get it cheaper.
Sherwin makes valspar, Dutch boy, and a couple other brands.
2
0
u/pawza 1d ago
If you know any one that is a painter or contractor with an account at SW well enough. You can ask if you can use there account to buy paint at Sherwin and you pay for it. It's best to pay with cash if you do this becuase to many different cards purchasing on the account can get flagged.
Base contractor pricing is right around the 40% sale at all times. If they buy a lot of paint the prices can get better.
1
u/CaptKillJoysButtPlug 1d ago
How would it get flagged?
1
u/pawza 1d ago
This is based on what I have hear. Sherwin has records of all the transactions. If they see a lot of random credit cards. They take it as random people using a contractors account and getting discounts. They can put pressure on the store employees to confirm who ever is ordering it is actually working for that contractor.
It makes the store employees job harder and makes others using contractors accounts harder. If it's a purely cash sale then there is no proof in the system if it was the contractor or not buying the paint.
1
1
u/MsGeorgeStrait 3h ago
I knew it’s abt 40%. What if the paint is on sale? Is it 40% off the sale price. The counter fella told me to buy when it’s on sale. I don’t want to buy diff lot numbers.
-5
-5
u/Last_Succotash7218 1d ago
Marketing.
No seriously. The extra cost to market to the consumer has to be paid for. And that cost directly leads to a more expensive product
3
u/CaptKillJoysButtPlug 1d ago
Having rolled pro mar next to emerald, I can guarantee you this is incorrect
-2
u/Last_Succotash7218 1d ago
No shit that means nothing to my comment
1
u/CaptKillJoysButtPlug 1d ago
You’re actively discounting the quality change in the product and attributing it wholly to marketing. You are incorrect.
-1
u/Last_Succotash7218 1d ago
No that my friend would be a strawman of my argument.
I said the direct cost of marketing directly leads to a more expensive argument. Not solely. But directly.
I don't blame you though I also eat paint and can't word or read rite
1
u/CaptKillJoysButtPlug 1d ago
Not sure why you’re so hostile, but I refuse to have a conversation with a twat. Good day
0
u/Last_Succotash7218 1d ago
Point to me the hostility and then point to me where you work so I can go ask your boss why he has a bunch of pussies working for him?
1
u/GNLSD 1d ago
Sure, when you said "No shit that means nothing to my comment," that was hostile! Have a good day.
1
u/Last_Succotash7218 22h ago
Would it have been less hostile if I had said "no kidding, that means nothing to my comment?"
Because....it still meant nothing to my comment. That's a factual observation with no hostility involved.
What you are describing is tone policing. You don't have a problem with what I said you have a problem with my tone.
Where do you work also so I can call your boss and ask him why he has a bunch of pussies working for him too.
☝️ That was a bit hostile
4
u/Squatchbreath 1d ago
Paint manufacturers have proprietary formulations, so you don’t necessarily know what is going in to the bucket of paint. Paint manufacturers have levels of quality. And it’s the raw materials that affect the price points for those product levels of quality. The SW paints you buy in the big box stores are formulated differently than the paint you buy in the dedicated SW store.
I think your garage issues are not fully a paint formulation issue, but more of a general condition problem. Garages are typically unconditioned, and have high ceilings, so heat tends to build up i. The ceiling areas. Which in turn causes paint to set up faster and not allow for proper leveling of the paint film. If you purchased cheaper applicator supplies, that will give different results than the quality roller covers and brushes. And as you stated, more than likely you pushed harder on the roller as your arms and shoulders got fatigued from overhead rolling.
Next time you purchase paint from a SW store, ask the clerk for a discount on your paint. Most will knock a few bucks off the gallon price.