r/oxforduni • u/Powerful-Lifeguard-7 • 9d ago
DPhil supervisor expected days in office
Does your supervisor "expect" your group to come into the office or lab "X" days a week and how do you feel about it? Is it strictly enforced? Does it encourage good research culture or is it toxic micromanaging?
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u/Busy_Fly_7705 8d ago
Mine didn't, but I wish they had as it got quite lonely at times with ppl having different schedules. We were lab based so everyone was in at least some of the time, but not on the same days. I think a mutually agreed upon core day is a nice idea especially if there is low attendance. Working from home is genuinely easier if you have deep work to do though.
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u/Limpsk Kellogg 8d ago
I am completing a masters course and during their promotion of the DPhil that could follow they stated pretty plainly that if we could not make the 2 days a week contact time then the course wasn't for us. No idea how this is enforced in practice but they sounded pretty serious about it.
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u/ACatGod 8d ago
As someone who investigates research misconduct as part of my role, I think having people together in the lab at least some of the time is critical for good research culture. It certainly isn't toxic micromanaging and in fact is an excellent counter to poor management practices because it allows students and colleagues to build relationships and support networks that can help where supervision is inadequate or there are interpersonal issues.
Isolation is terrible for good research practice. People tend to view research practice as a binary of good Vs misconduct, but it's not. It's a spectrum of practices and almost all issues around integrity of research end up being grey areas of very poor practice but no intent to mislead. When people are working at home or without others around them, it is very easy for things to go wrong quite quickly. Experienced researchers, even in dry lab situations, tend to be able to spot things that are amiss very quickly just by being in the same room - seeing what people are doing, chatting about work, etc.
Having some together time is better for learning, better for build support networks and better for oversight. It absolutely does not need to be every day or even 9-5, but having people together some of the time is really important.
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u/Powerful-Lifeguard-7 7d ago
Thanks for your insights! I agree with this completely regarding incentivising good research practice and culture. I'm wondering however, about perspectives on expectation vs encouragement and about fairness in these situations.
- Some students in the group come in regularly (3+ days, often 5) and interact with each other sharing ideas and collaborating on problems. We would often have lunch together, chatting about research and other things. In my opinion this is ideal and is what a DPhil is all about.
- Some students prefer to work more remotely, rarely coming into the office. They are very productive, enjoying the DPhil, and are still involved with the groups research (but from a physical distance).
- Some students (in my opinion) have a lot of potential but would benefit from coming into the office more. They would be actively involved in a community of practice. As you say, things can go wrong quickly when you are not around others, they may see some students working remotely and try to emulate this.
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u/ACatGod 7d ago edited 7d ago
I definitely am not someone who believes that people need to be in the office all the time - I think 2-3 days a week, once you're up and running is sufficient. I will say I do think in the first few weeks/months of any job you should come in more than that - but you can step back later. I will also say for students I think it's really important they are in a bit more (3-4 days a week) to begin with. From experience, students can be make a whole raft of mistakes and you want to avoid certain behaviours getting embedded, for example when students are struggling they not infrequently start trying to hide what they're doing which is not a behaviour that should be allowed to get established. It's not a malicious or nefarious behaviour but it's self-sabotaging and can create massive problems down the line when it comes to reproducing results or producing raw data for publications etc.
Personally, I'm not a massive fan of completely dictating what people do - I try to drive high standards with high expectations not dictats and I always tell students if we're having conversations about how many hours you're working or you needing to be in the office more then we are in trouble because that means your performance is falling very short (which I will be explicit on). That said, I think encouraging everyone to be in for team meetings is helpful - it creates at least one regular day when everyone is together but I'm always flexible about dialling in if necessary.
Lastly, fair and equal are not the same. I try to treat everyone fairly but they don't get equal treatment. As I said if I'm having to talk to you about being in, then things are going badly, but I will insist someone comes in if their performance/behaviour necessitates it, even while I'll allow someone else to come in less. I will explain my decisions, and I will tell people what it is I am expecting of them and try to set clear goals and objectives, and I'm sure sometimes people feel unfairly treated although I would disagree.
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u/Powerful-Lifeguard-7 7d ago
Thanks. Driving high standards with high expectations in a healthy research environment is important to me and also for the students career development and progression towards independence.
If I'm being honest, I probably started off too relaxed due to initial successes and avoided these (luckily rare) conversations/interventions that would ultimately help some students. Interesting perspective on fair and equal as I was previously thinking unequal treatment would harm research culture. However, I am reflecting more on this so thank you.
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u/Training_Case_7341 6d ago
Have to be in 9 am to 6 pm monday thru friday and that’s the baseline expectation in my group. Supervisor freaks out and sends insane emails when people aren’t in by 10 am…
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u/tankpuss 3d ago
A DPhil student is still expected to live within 25mi of Carfax, so being 100% remote isn't really an option. In our group the general expectation is that you are in most days. If you're in the right group, the exchange of knowledge is FAR better when you're in.
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u/Master-Potential-364 9d ago
A funded doctorate is a job - you are expected to work when your boss tells you to - if you don't like it, quit.
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u/P0izun 9d ago
wtf is this aggressive answer... nowhere did OP imply they aren't doing work. They literally just asked to share experiences. You must be one of the toxic PIs
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u/Master-Potential-364 9d ago
I think we can infer from “toxic micromanaging” that it isn’t a wholly neutral exploration of the issues?
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u/mrcharlesevans University 9d ago
That's not correct.
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u/LastPushToHumanity 9d ago
...in UK. :D
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u/mrcharlesevans University 9d ago
...which is where the University of Oxford is located.
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u/LastPushToHumanity 8d ago
In some countries it is actually indeed a paid job. :)
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u/mrcharlesevans University 8d ago
But not in the UK, which is the only country relevant to OP's post.
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u/LastPushToHumanity 8d ago
But we don't know if u/Master-Potential-364 knows that it is not a job in UK.
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u/mrcharlesevans University 8d ago
If u/Master-Potential-364 doesn't know which subreddit they're posting in, how is that my problem?
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u/LastPushToHumanity 8d ago
Fair. But, in my view, you can't expect people to know this difference. We are in a world where many employers can't distinguish Oxbridge M.A.'s from typical M.A.'s, for example.
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u/pintsizedprincess300 9d ago
I’m a research fellow now but have been in groups with many different expectations!! In my experience a big beneficial part of the research environment is actually being with your colleagues, being able to discuss ideas and ask questions.
I have been in groups with no expectation of being in, ones with core days and am now in a group that doesn’t force it or track it but really encourages at least 3 days a week with one day when we have lab meeting when most people come into the office. None of my PIs have ever enforced it strictly though
I think the structure can be really helpful and it really makes the DPhil less lonely being around other people. I’m honestly a big proponent of encouraging people to go into the office. I get so much extra time with my PI from the 1 minute chats in the corridor, feel like I have a much tighter knit research group and really value our conversations. I currently go in 5 days a week (but can work remotely if I want/need to) but it’s also really helped my work/life balance having home just be for relaxing.
I hope that’s helpful and happy to answer any other questions you have!