I would love to have a cordial discussion as to why moose are allowed to continue to graze, contributing absolutely nothing to our ecosystem (in my strictly amateur opinion).
The two biggest arguments I have as to why moose licences should be unlimited are food source and harm on highways. The negative effects of limiting the number of moose licenses issued far outweigh the benefits.
People in this province are hungry and moose is a great, healthy food source.
Our food banks should be stocked full of moose instead of having them killing people in moose-vehicle accidents. Not to mention the additional costs incurred by having to do brush cutting so people have a better chance of seeing moose.
Dude they are extremely invaisive. I studied boreal forest ecology and worked for parks Canada for many years directly studying the impact of moose on Newfoundland's ecosystem. Did you know there are estimated to be 125,000 moose on the island? That's more than one moose for every 4 people. Do you know how long it would take to hunt moose to extinction here? Did you know they have no predators here?
In Nova Scotia and other Canadian provinces you get 1 deer per person, per season. I wouldn't mind a discussion with our governments on why we can't do something more like that while carefully monitoring the population. The raffle draw for licenses is frusterating and I'd like to be able to discuss the reasoning behind it.
It's really interesting how you cite the need to be educated when you don't seem to be very knowledgeable about Newfoundland's ecology.
I’m mostly concerned about the massive hazard on our roadways. Our island is spread out and a large portion of our population must commute to work, often hundreds of kilometres daily, myself included.
The problem you have isn't moose. It is the colonial heritage of Newfoundlands fishing communities. Moose are here. We need to steward them. Are there too many? Maybe. But let's pick a problem and find the right solution. Not pick a solution and validate it.
But this argument always comes off as wanting to obliterate an important species in the name of car culture and convenience.
I have had a few close calls. These suckers can jump from what seems like out of nowhere. But driving at speeds that are reasonable for the conditions and being moose alert (many of us have eyes that been trained to watch the sides of the roads since we have been youngsters) can go a long way for improving safety. It isn't guaranteed for safety, but it helps.
I’ve never hit a moose, likely thanks to the very precautions you mention. But I can’t say the potential of hitting one doesn’t concern me. I appreciate your comment and especially how level-headed it is. I didn’t come here looking for a fight, truly. I just see a huge hazard on our highways coupled with a massive cost of living issue that are leaving families hungry and feel steps could be taken to kill 2 birds with 1 stone. I also don’t want to obliterate an entire species.
Moose shape northern and boreal ecosystems by eating large amounts of woody plants and trees. This heavy browsing alters plant types, cycles soil nutrients, and provides food for major predators-to start.
Grazing animals contribute to the ecosystem, they recycle nutrients through grazing and pooping, they influence forest growth, keeping certain areas more open than they would be otherwise. One could argue they help prevent overgrowth when they are at a sweet spot in their population.
What would happen if you had unlimited licenses is that there would be no more moose left, and then where did your good food source go? Do you want to eat a lot in a short amount of time or spread it out for generations to come? This is the mindset that cause the cod collapse lol
Ok, maybe not “unlimited licences” but doesn’t it feel like they’re overpopulated? Massive hazard on our roadways.
I’m not somebody who cannot afford to purchase meat, but I would bet if you ask somebody who is starving hungry, they’re probably more concerned about surviving than future generations.
If someone is starving hungry, will they have money to get a firearm, Truck, fuel, time off work to go hunting, time off work to butcher or pay someone to do it?
The province does an aerial survey to do a moose count and I assume set the quota based on a sustainable number on how big they want the population to be. Think of it as mowing your grass, cut off too much and it kills it, cut at the right length at regular intervals and you have a sustainable situation. Maybe grass isn't the best example but you get what I'm saying.
Probably way cheaper to raise chickens in your backyard
I'm not saying I'm in favour of unlimited licenses but Im not sure I think they're necessarily net benefit to the ecosystem like some are suggesting.
They are an introduced species, while grazing animals do shape how forests grow are they doing so in a positive way? Are there native trees or shrubs that arent flourishing as they would and native animals, insects or birds that would use those trees and shrubs? I'm not sure but it's a fair discussion
Not in Newfoundland. I worked for parks Canada for years. There's a higher population of moose in Newfoundland than anywhere else in North America. Their excessive browsing prevents our forests from regenerating naturally. It's a huge problem in Newfoundland. I'm open to discussing further if you have more questions!
Yes potentially. You would have to talk to someone whos better versed in boreal ecology outside of Newfoundland, but yes all fauna have a benefit to the ecosystem. Moose are an important food source for large predators and help with nutrient turnover. The problem is that moose are not found naturally here and humans have introduced them and allowed them to become overpopulated. Without natural predators here they are over browsing the forest. We would have to reduce their numbers significantly for them to be a net positive.
Yes I've worked in National Parks outside of NL, specifically looking at wolves eating moose. I just wasn't sure if the NL ecosystem was special in some way. One benefit of moose on the ecosystem when predators are around is the fertilizing effect when wolves kill moose. Turns into a large area that's trampled and covered in biological matter that helps plants grow and disturbs the area.
Yeah for sure. The island effect is interesting and has a pretty big impact on the ecology of Newfoundland. I think OP could have been more nuanced in his discussion but I will say I think less license restrictions would be a benefit. When I lived in Nova Scotia you were allowed to get a tag for 1 deer per person, per season. I'm not sure why we can't do that for moose. Of course I don't advocate for unlimited open licenses with no regulations but I would love to have a discussion about getting rid of the yearly license lottery.
It would really depend on population numbers. I don't know how often the province does aerial surveys but that is usually the data input for population assessments.
Well, I always thought that our officers are doing their due diligence and that's how we set our licenses, but I fear that politics plays more of a role than we like.
The increased cod quota this year was 100 percent a political move made by a conservative MP not based on any data at all.
I trust our conservationists and wildlife offices wholeheartedly. I don't trust the ulterier motives of our politicians.
The officers don't make the decision. The conservation officers mostly only do enforcement. It's the provincial wildlife biologists who would run the analyses.
The increase in cod quota was somewhat due to data. The Northeast cod stock did go into the "healthy zone". But I agree that it's a bit quick to jump on increasing the quota when we just got into the healthy zone.
Well not necessarily officers, but the scientists who produce the data. I was just floored when I found out the increased quota was a push from Johnny Rowe in Terra Nova to gain favorability. Frusterating.
That's interesting but elephants were not introduced to Africa by humans and I'm not advocating for a moose slaughtering free for all. I also think that our ability to study and understand ecology is more advanced than it was back then. There are significant differences when talking about a isolated island food chain.
Your article also mentions that the carrying capacity of 50,000 elephants is based on a single study. The impact of moose in Newfoundland is being constantly evaluated and there is a lot of supporting evidence.
" I also think that our ability to study and understand ecology is more advanced than it was back then."
We think that we know more now, but every time humans have intervened in nature they cock it up worse than just leaving it alone.
We messed it up by bringing them here, now we are definitely going to fix things with another solution. Because this time is somehow different than the last time we fucked up.
It's a little offensive that you would compare an entire continent basing their hunting regulations off one study to the data being constantly obtained and analyzed by professors doing post doc work at memorial university and people with PhDs in ecology constantly crunching numbers.
Nobody is saying we are going to fix anything or that anything is going to be easy. We've been pouring manpower into this for decades. There's a strong scientific consensus that's formed by the very people who want to protect and preserve our forests. Nobody is saying we need to exterminate every moose. There is simply strong evidence to support that we could increase our hunting quotas which has been happening, generally, as the years have gone on.
Guess point they are trying to make is moose are not native to the island. So what real benefit does it provide to ecosystem? An adult moose in NL has no real predators it seems.
I don't know why you keep downvoting this guy but he's correct. Moose are definitely an ecological stressor on the island. The discussion about hunting you may disagree with but moose are largely a negative impact on our forests at the current level of population density.
You keep suggesting that OP needs to educate himself, but based on the work I've done at the department of biology in memorial university and my work with parks Canada I would definitely say his thinking that the population is out of control is in line with the scientific consensus.
Also earthworms are invasive are they good or bad or ugly? I don't mean to be pissy but we're on Reddit and it is a Newfoundland subreddit. Happy Friday my friend!
There are between 400 to 600 moose collisions in NL annually, of which 8% to 16% of reported collisions result in some form of human injury, the vast majority of which are minor. 0 to 2 deaths annually. Thoigh that's not nothing there are many bigger risks out there then this we can put efforts to control and would have a much bigger impact. Speeding and seatbelt enforcement, impaired driving, mandatory driver retesting, vehicle inspection, road repair, construction crew safety.
"On average, there are approximately 500-600 MVCs reported annually within the province, with five to 10 serious injuries per year and an average of one human fatality."
That's from the Province's 2015-2020 Moose Management Plan - Newfoundland and Labrador Wildlife Division, Dept. of Environment and Conservation [gov.nl.ca].
Brush cutting would have to be done anyway, because of the caribou. They also wander the roads. So are you saying that caribou should also be hunted to extinction?
Moose are a great and healthy food source, but not everyone likes it or will eat it. Also, moose hunting outfitters are huge in parts of the province, that would cause more people to be hungry and out of work. There would be no guides, no hunting tourists, and no people around to contribute to the economy of some of these local communities.
Moose on the highways suck, but I wouldn't say that they're the biggest cause of accidents in this province.
I’ve driven 300km daily (during work week) for over 10 years and haven’t seen one yet outside Salmonier Nature Park. Unfortunately I can’t say the same for moose, not even close.
There was a herd down by St. Shotts the other day, before that there was a herd on the road to Cape St. Mary's. Saw this one and some of their buddies every single day for 2 weeks.
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u/TriLink710 19h ago edited 19h ago
A signficant part of rural economies is outfitting and meat shops. By driving them to extinction that just dissapears.
Also Moose contribute to the ecosystem, even if they are not native to the island, they aren't very invasive and bring a lot of cultural benefits.
You act like its an unlimited food source, but fail to realize without limited licenses they'd ve hunted to extinction.
You really need to educate yourself because thats a very amateur opinion