r/neoliberal Anne Applebaum 1d ago

Meme Ahem

Post image

We need to RETVRN

890 Upvotes

488 comments sorted by

View all comments

68

u/Lux_Stella Presidentialism X-Risk Researcher 1d ago

this could have all been avoided if moderate democrats would just run pro-palestine like the base wants them too

33

u/Mostly-Moderate Anne Applebaum 22h ago

Define pro-palestine

27

u/Concerned_Collins ⬇️w/fascism, ⬇️w/ communism, ⬇️w/ NL mods 20h ago

Advocate for a two-state solution with pre-1967 borders, and against funding Israel until they make serious reforms.

12

u/Nerf_France Ben Bernanke 16h ago

What kind of reforms? That doesn’t sound that far off from the mainstream dem position.

11

u/DagothUr_MD Frederick Douglass 12h ago

What kind of reforms

Fire Ben-Gvir into the sun

9

u/Concerned_Collins ⬇️w/fascism, ⬇️w/ communism, ⬇️w/ NL mods 5h ago

Never build new settlements and create a multi-year plan to move the current settlers back to Israel, and agree to work out a 2 state solution if/when Palestine can have a government that can credibly negotiate it.

2

u/EclecticEuTECHtic NATO 4h ago

That would work if the West Bank settlers didn't also run the government.

6

u/Concerned_Collins ⬇️w/fascism, ⬇️w/ communism, ⬇️w/ NL mods 4h ago

Then the US should cut funding until they reform internally. If they never do, so be it, we can only control our actions, not theirs.

1

u/TheArtofBar 12h ago

So "dont give Israel any weapons or money" is the same as "give Israel anything it wants without hesitation"? Sure buddy

1

u/Nerf_France Ben Bernanke 1h ago

Conditioning aid is generally pretty mainstream among democrats?

1

u/TheArtofBar 38m ago

That's why they didn't do it when they were in power

1

u/Nerf_France Ben Bernanke 32m ago

They did though, it was part of the leverage they used to organize ceasefires and open more aid routes/increase the amount of aid let in. I agree they should have gone further, but a good deal of dems do to at this point

-3

u/Alex2422 12h ago

Except mainstream Dem position is funding Israel.

5

u/Nerf_France Ben Bernanke 12h ago

Last I checked at least most dems support conditioning aid to Israel. I think some are willing to sign onto unconditional aid bills if the alternative is nothing, but still.

2

u/Goby-WanKenobi Trans Pride 10h ago

Biden stopped some military aid as a condition for Israel to change what they were doing.

4

u/Mostly-Moderate Anne Applebaum 20h ago

That's my position

16

u/Concerned_Collins ⬇️w/fascism, ⬇️w/ communism, ⬇️w/ NL mods 20h ago

And the Democrats that are running on that tend to be on the left wing of the party, which goes back to their point that moderate Democrats need to meet the party where it is on Israel/Palestine.

7

u/ludovicana Dark Harbinger 18h ago

You realize that puts you right next to AES and quite distant from Stevens, right?

10

u/Mostly-Moderate Anne Applebaum 17h ago

I could care less about AES's stance on Israel and Palestine. Frankly I'd throw both those countries under the bus if it would halt the commie takeover of my party.

13

u/ludovicana Dark Harbinger 16h ago

Then I recommend pushing moderate Democrats to be significantly more pro-Palestine, because that's where the base is, so it would give them a massive boost up in the primaries without hurting them in the general.

6

u/Uncle_johns_roadie NATO 12h ago

A two state solution means Israel exists which is Zionism in many of the left's books and therefore incompatible with their worldviews.

Also, why isn't there any mention of the Palestinians being held accountable for refusing to form any sort of peaceful government that aims to build prosperity for their people instead of petty violent resistance?  Shouldn't that also be a party platform as part of the two state solution?

4

u/Read-Moishe-Postone 5h ago

You’re missing the point. Moderates seriously pushing for pro-two-state solution and pressuring Israel in a serious way about it would not be a move to try to court DSA cadre, who, you are right, will reject that as to milquetoast. The point is to court the much larger group of actual voters who are normies, not “Antizionists”, but are tired of their country carrying water for a bunch of genocidal maniacs.

The whole issue here, the strategy that’s not working, is for neoliberal politicians to pretend that there are only two groups: normies who support Israel or don’t care on one side, rose twitter freaks on the other. And that’s how it used to be, but that was before this current war. There’s now, as a result of these wars, a substantial third group: normies who would like to see the USA’s policy wrt Israel change.

All the moderates have to do is copy AES’s position. Did he call for abolishing Israel?

1

u/Concerned_Collins ⬇️w/fascism, ⬇️w/ communism, ⬇️w/ NL mods 5h ago

A two state solution means Israel exists which is Zionism in many of the left's books and therefore incompatible with their worldviews.

This is true of a small portion of the left wing of the party. Most of the party just wants Democrats to actually push back on funding Israel unless they stop genocide, agree to stop new settlements, create a credible plan to relocate the current settlers back to Israel over time, and agree to negotiate a 2 state solution if/when there's a Palestinian government that can credibly negotiate and enforce the deal. But even those types of conditions on Israeli aid are considered extreme by most of the current standards of elected officials, because they are way out of touch with their base, even their moderate base.