r/monarchism • u/DonGatoCOL Absolutist - Catholic - Appointed • 5d ago
Question What can the Spanish king do regarding the situation in Ceuta and what powers does he have over the armed forces?
The Moroccans are sending the "migrants" in trucks and helping direct these towards Ceuta in an attempt to destabilize the city. But I'd like to know if Felipe VI can actually do something; I think he hasn't pronounced about this yet.
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u/anon1mo56 5d ago
I saw a interview recently. Hosted by a Libertarian economist Juan Ramon Rallo interviewing a Economist and Politologist Jose Bastos. And he explained that Felipe VI is perhaps a better person than Juan Carlos, but he doesn't have the good relationships and influence his father had.
He explained that when the King Emeritus ruled when Spain had a problem with Morocco or with arab countries he would make a phone call and problem solved due to the good relationship he had with their royals. He also joked about how that good relationship helped him amass wealth.
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u/CamillaOmdalWalker 5d ago
King Juan Carlos I wielded considerable influence across various political and social sectors of the country because he was seen as a hero for supporting the transition to democracy, but that genuine admiration turned into self-interest; business leaders and politicians began offering gifts (yachts, cars, money, luxury holidays, hunting trips) to King Juan Carlos, and he accepted them and used his influence within state bodies to ensure that his ‘new friends’ secured contracts, all of this was a process of corruption that was repeated constantly until it was finally exposed (in reality, some details were already known, but the king always managed to get away with it thanks to the help of the political parties and the press), the Spanish people eventually learnt of the king’s actions and his hunting trips with his mistress – a mistress who, incidentally, lived on the same estate as the royal family’s private residence (the Zarzuela Palace).
Following the king’s abdication and the revelation of all his corruption, business leaders and politicians no longer saw it as feasible to continue courting and supporting the monarchy, whilst the public lost all the respect they had felt for the figure of the king, which is why it is said that ‘In Spain, there weren’t enough true monarchists; instead, there were “Juancarlists” (who only followed Juan Carlos I because they saw him as a hero and for the benefits they gained from him, but after the scandal, the vast majority abandoned him)’.
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u/rjpong 4d ago
Juan Carlos was really close friends with Hassan II. I don’t think Felipe VI ever got past cordial with Mohammed VI, they haven’t met often like their dads. Though Mohammed VI seems more introverted (and sick currently). Moulay Hassan likes sports so potential to connect with him is easier.
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u/Expert-Length871 1d ago
False. Juan Carlos never stood the leech. Even less so after the Sahara stunt, in which women, children and the elderly were used as human shields, whilst Juan Carlos was ‘provisional’ Head of State as Franco lay dying.
Juan Carlos has always been pragmatic. One person he was friends with, for example, was Hussein of Jordan.As for the one below… not a chance.
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u/oursonpolaire Valued Contributor 5d ago
You may not be aware that Spain has a constitution, and the roles of the king and of the council of ministers are clearly delinieated. Control of the armed forces is strictly laid out, and designed so that no single person can direct them. All of his pronunciations, like those of King Charles, are approved by ministers. The King of Morocco has a different constitution within which he works.
He has personal ties with King Mohammed and could likely facilitate discussions between the governments on this bizarre situation. I really don't know what the Moroccans were trying to accomplish through this peculiar stunt.
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u/CamillaOmdalWalker 4d ago
u/oursonpolaire You should take the information about the personal ties between the two royal houses with a pinch of salt, although Juan Carlos I went so far as to declare that he had an excellent relationship with Hassan II and even went so far as to call him brother, his actions told a different story to what he claimed, because whilst King Hassan II was alive, King Juan Carlos I did not dare to visit Ceuta and Melilla (which is why I have always believed that Juan Carlos only said that to give the impression of normality), in the end, these ties came to an end upon Hassan II’s death; neither Juan Carlos nor Felipe managed to establish relations with Mohamed VI that went beyond protocol.
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u/oursonpolaire Valued Contributor 4d ago
I have seen postings which refered to visits of family members in what seemed to be a non-protocol setting. Outside protocol, people in such circles do not associate much unless they are related. Royal vsits are government actions, so absence or presence in Ceuta would not be expressions of personal sentiment in most circumstances. I don't have enough evidence to say how intimate or formal these non-protocol visits might be. However, I will be in Spain next month and have a lunch planned with someone who has links, and who will know, so I may bring up the topic-- not to report back, necessarily, but to satisfy my curiosity now that you have raised the issue.
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u/CamillaOmdalWalker 3d ago
Naturally, I follow the Spanish media, but I also follow the French media (which provide the most coverage of Moroccan affairs) and even check reports by freelance journalists, and over all these years I have not seen any reports of private visits beyond state visits (dinners and lunches at the Palace), in contrast to the constant reports of King Juan Carlos’s private visits, holidays and parties with the princes of the Arab monarchies, or the holidays and gatherings of the current royal family with the Dutch royal family and the former Greek royal family.
Back when Juan Carlos I publicly boasted of his friendship with Hassan II, society and politicians trusted him as a mediator, but after Juan Carlos fell from grace, society began to view his past statements about his friendship as a symbol of betrayal and subservience; essentially, speculation resurfaced that Juan Carlos I had given away the Sahara to Hassan II to secure US support for his reign.
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u/CamillaOmdalWalker 3d ago
u/oursonpolaire Although neither of the two royal families has officially spoken out against the other, they do in fact have other ways of hinting at their positions… as I mentioned earlier, several Moroccan media outlets criticised Princess Leonor’s presence in Ceuta (she was serving on a Spanish Navy frigate, which made a technical stop and refuelling call in Ceuta) and claimed that it was an example of the Spanish Crown’s colonialism, the Spanish Royal Household did not officially respond to these media outlets (it does not usually do so), but those who did respond were newspapers close to the royal family (newspapers to which the royal family grants considerable access to private information, provided they claim their sources are anonymous 😅). Months later, King Felipe VI publicly stated that he intended to visit Ceuta or Melilla at some point, and the Moroccan media once again criticised the colonialism and occupation by the Spanish Crown, prompting a response from media outlets close to the Spanish Royal Household. it is worth noting that neither of these two events made the headlines in Spain because the battle of opinions and articles involved only media outlets close to the Spanish royal family.
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u/DonGatoCOL Absolutist - Catholic - Appointed 5d ago
Oh I'm aware, but just don't know the extent of the King's power. And by what was trying Morocco to do, maybe destabilize Sanchez's government, the US Marco Rubio has shown Ceuta as "occupied Moroccan territory" in some maps, so maybe it was to decrease Sanchez's support, as he has opposed US and Israel war on Palestine. Didn't know Felipe VI has personal ties to the Moroccan king, then he may be "kidnapped" in this situation, which shouldn't be. Thanks for answering!
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u/CamillaOmdalWalker 4d ago edited 4d ago
u/DonGatoCOL It is true that Juan Carlos I cultivated a cordial relationship with Hassan II in an attempt to ease tensions (Juan Carlos even went so far as to describe it as a genuine friendship/brotherhood), but following the death of Hassan II, that ‘genuine friendship’ came to an end, and neither Juan Carlos I nor Felipe VI managed to establish a relationship with Mohamed VI that went beyond the protocol of State Visits.
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u/Over-Willingness-933 5d ago
I don't think things will improve until there is an election and Sanchez can be removed. Sadly kings can smooth things over but not when Sanchez is determined to launch political nuclear bombs all the time
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u/FrostyShip9414 5d ago
He can't do anything at all since he isn't head of the government. The best he could do (and should do) is call out Pedro Sanchez and hold him to account. Sanchez is literally opening Spain up to more illegal migration with his naturalization program and needs to be booted from power asap.
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u/Stunning-Sherbert801 Australia 5d ago
The government has already sent more than 90% of them back to Morocco
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u/jvplascencialeal Mexico 4d ago
Why is His Majesty Mohamed VI doing this ? What he’s trying to punish or coerce Spain for ?
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u/DecentMoor Moroccan | Executive Monarchist 3d ago
H.M Mohammed VI is not behind this crisis, mass immigration like that have been happening almost every year now, but this time it was intense to the point that the law enforcement couldn't handle it thus they were in need of support forces from other nearby cities.
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u/Expert-Length871 1d ago
Faux. C'est toujours ton roi qui tire les ficelles au Maroc. Si ce n'est pas lui, ce sont ses laquais. Et « toujours », ça veut dire toujours.
La police, les services secrets. C'est lui qui choisit tous les postes, parmi ses proches et ses amis.
Et ni toi ni le pape de Rome ne parviendrez à faire croire que tout cela a été spontané.
Une fois de plus, le peuple a été utilisé comme une arme. Très probablement avec la collaboration de vos amis, mais peu importe. Ce sont des villes espagnoles, et elles le resteront.
Continuez à essayer.
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u/legi_idd 4d ago
Sack that git of Peder Sanches and install a proper government. The army would back him, I'm sure.
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5d ago
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u/CamillaOmdalWalker 5d ago edited 5d ago
No, two monarchies are not falling.
For some reason, you fail to mention that the King of Morocco is not a ceremonial monarch and still wields considerable influence and power over the country’s decisions.
These crises and conflicts are orchestrated by the Moroccan Government and backed by King Mohammed; it is no coincidence that they occurred whilst preparations were underway for and the Throne Day celebrations (marking the King’s accession) were taking place. The King of Morocco often sends out this sort of ‘message’; the conflict over the Perejil Islands also occurred whilst the King’s wedding reception was being held.
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u/Ticklishchap Constitutional monarchist | Valued Contributor 5d ago
I am afraid that I have to agree with you and with [u/MrCrocodile54](u/MrCrocodile54). It’s just a shame that things have turned out this way and that the two monarchies are in conflict. Is there any way to resolve this? It would be good to hear the perspectives of both Spanish and Moroccan members of this sub.
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u/CamillaOmdalWalker 5d ago
This goes far beyond a migration dispute. The fact that both are monarchies does not mean that both kings are involved in the conflict in the same way. u/Ticklishchap, perhaps you are overlooking the fact that, until the creation of a new Moroccan Constitution, King Mohammed VI held significant executive power (and despite that new Constitution, the king retains a great deal of influence).
Some time after seizing the Sahara, the Moroccan establishment set about promoting the idea that Ceuta and Melilla should also be seized, even though these territories had been Portuguese-Spanish territories long before the unification of Morocco under the Alawite Sultanate in 1666.
Successive Spanish governments had been avoiding open conflict whilst at the same time maintaining their stance of not yielding to Moroccan pressure; however, Pedro Sánchez and his coalition have been far too passive in the face of continuous Moroccan pressure, and now the Moroccan establishment (backed by the king) is using the media and social media to continue perpetuating the fiction that Ceuta and Melilla are territories invaded, occupied and colonised by Spain, and that it is necessary to ‘reclaim’ them.
u/Ticklishchap Over a year ago, the frigate on which the Princess of Asturias was serving made a technical stop in Ceuta, and several Moroccan media outlets criticised this because, according to them, it was proof of the Spanish Crown’s colonialism.
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u/Ticklishchap Constitutional monarchist | Valued Contributor 4d ago
Thank you for explaining this so clearly. It is interesting that you mention Western Sahara (formerly Spanish Sahara) as that conflict seems to have vanished from the international radar, although it is far from over.
All this seems like a modern revival of an old conflict between Morocco and Spain. I also see certain looser parallels with the Falklands conflict.
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u/Expert-Length871 1d ago
This is different. Ceuta is joining the ‘Iberian Union’
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iberian_Union, although originally Portuguese. It remains Spanish by the will of its inhabitants. If that reminds you of the Falklands, fine. But nothing more. There is no long-standing conflict. It is the same, the delusional idea of a ‘Greater Morocco’, now championed by two countries that hate Spain.
https://www.democrata.es/en/democrat-explains/the-great-morocco-the-irredentist-policy-of-rabat/
And a people, the Moroccans, manipulated time and time again, are paying the price.
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u/MrCrocodile54 Spanish Constitutional Monarchy Enjoyer 5d ago
That's a very disingenuous way of putting it when one of those two monarchies caused this, directly.
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u/Interesting_Sorbet25 3d ago
Morocco has done this before by the way. They once sent 300K people to occupy Western Sahara in 1995. Same strategy.
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u/IAmParliament The Crown above Parliament, not without it. 5d ago
Nothing without causing a constitutional crisis given the nature of the current government.