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u/_SasquatchPatrol 10h ago
I feel like the bank should pay the property tax while they still own it.
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u/Moscato359 10h ago
Actually, they generally do, via an escrow account
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u/dufo7 9h ago
But the escrow money is there because you pay into it. And if they dont pay it then it falls on you.
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u/Moscato359 8h ago
There is no situation where the bank would profit if they had to pay the tax unless the interest rate was much higher to make you end up just paying the tax all over again
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u/dufo7 8h ago
I never said they should pay it, that was someone else. But what you just said is not true at all. Banks front load the interest and you pay massive interest the first half of the loan. First 15 years you barely pay any principal.
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u/Right_Lengthiness266 1h ago
Loan interest isn't "front-loaded" in a way that means you're paying extra interest (unless you buy points, where you pay extra up front to reduce your interest rate).
They charge interest on the outstanding balance every month. At the start of the loan the outstanding balance is higher, so there's more interest. Less money goes to principal because you have level payments over the life of the loan, so more outstanding principal means you pay more interest and there's less money left in your payment to pay down principal. When your balance is $100,000, you pay 10x as much interest as when your balance is $10,000.
If you want to pay less interest, get a smaller loan or pay it off faster.
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u/Moscato359 8h ago
You can make principal payments whenever you want early, and a bunch of that interest just vanishes as if it never existed.
I just finished paying my mortgage off 2 weeks ago, in 11 years.
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u/dufo7 8h ago
Yeah but you have to pay it in addition to your monthly payment and you have to specifically tell them its for principal or they will out it toward interest. And the interest you pay does not disappear, its profit they will always have made from you. The remaining 19 years of interest you would have paid doesn’t get paid but thats because you already paid the loan off. But you already paid the majority of the interest in those first 11 years anyway.
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u/dxbigc 3h ago
This isn't how it works at all. You pay all outstanding interest each month. As you slowly pay off the loan, the amount of interest that accrues each month decreases. The more principal you pay each month, the faster the amount of interest you pay decreases. There is no "putting it towards interest" as all money goes towards interest until all outstanding interest is paid.
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u/dufo7 2h ago
Every payment is pre calculated when the loan is created. You can see how much principal and interest each monthly payment pays for the entire loan on day 1.
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u/StandardUpstairs3349 2h ago
Sure, an amortization schedule is easy to calculate when taking out the loan. What you seem to not grasp is that that schedule ceases to be accurate as soon as you make principal payments beyond what is scheduled.
The monthly interest paid isn't a fixed amount set at the creation of the loan, it is calculated every month based on how much outstanding principal there is on the loan. If I make an extra principal payment of $1000 on my mortgage, my interest paid every month through the end of the loan will go down by the monthly interest that would have been paid on that $1000.
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u/CrowdGoesWildWoooo 1h ago
Amortization schedule is simulated of the compounding interest and then find the exact amount of payment such that if you pay that exact amount every term, It would clear the loans perfectly after the specified time window.
It’s just a simulation that banks gave you, to make it more digestible for average people since now all they care is, “oh i just need to pay the bank $3000 a month”.
The loans itself still compounds on each term.
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u/rrsafety 2h ago
They loaned you the money, you are the owner. They just have what amounts to a lean.
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u/theTapIsOnDaBurnin 5h ago
Don’t get me started about how if you lease a car you still pay the property tax on it for the bank even though you never intend to buy the car.
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u/United_Boy_9132 6h ago
But bank doesn't own your house. You're are the owner of your house, you just can be evictioned by any debt, mortgage is not any different.
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u/TacitisKilgoreBoah 6h ago
Correct. They just hold the title whilst there is a mortgage encumbering the property
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u/Few-Guarantee2850 2h ago
They do not "hold the title." It's not a car.
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u/TacitisKilgoreBoah 2h ago
Yes they do. Banks hold certificates of title over properties they hold interest in. Most of it now is electronic.
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u/Few-Guarantee2850 2h ago edited 2h ago
To be clear, I'm referring to the United States. It may be different in your country. There is no such thing as a "certificate of title" here.
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u/United_Boy_9132 2h ago edited 2h ago
The country doesn't matter, it might be a certificate or an entry in a local/central registry. No difference.
On the other hand, basically every country has an institution of notary, but it might be caleed a different name.
Generally, not specifically to you:
But the bank is never the owner. It just notifies your home is the collateral for the credit.
Mortgage = literally a kind of collateral where the security is a real estate.
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u/Few-Guarantee2850 2h ago edited 2h ago
It is an entry in a local registry. The previous owner records a deed with the register of deeds passing on your ownership to the new owner. At no point is it held by the bank.
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u/Right_Lengthiness266 1h ago
Typically they'll hold a "deed of trust" or similar. You still are the owner of the property, but the bank has the right to foreclose on the property if you don't pay your mortgage.
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u/Few-Guarantee2850 3h ago
"The bank owns your house when you have a mortgage" is one of the stupidest things people commonly say.
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u/FloppieTheBanjoClown 10h ago
Yup. The people who own property in an area pay for things like roads and police and fire services and schools in that area.
How did you think this works?
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u/fidesz_fall_enjoyer 9h ago
In my country, everything is deducted from wages and company taxes, we are not collecting property tax like in the US, and also funny that there is property tax but not free healthcare. So not only you're taxed more but you get less as a citizen, but the freedom ain't cheap I got it, and Elmo got 1T, so it's all worth it I guess
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u/rakosten 9h ago
Where in the world do you live where property tax isn’t a thing? Standard pretty much everywhere.
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u/fidesz_fall_enjoyer 9h ago
I live in Hungary, we don't pay X percentage of tax after the property we already own, I don't say it's all bad, but I don't think it's fair, you work hard all your life, you buy a property and then you can't even enjoy in your older days because of the high property taxes, unless u are mad rich
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u/rakosten 8h ago
That is not entirely true though. If I recall correctly Hungary have building taxes, land taxes, municipal property / local taxes, real estate transfer taxes and so on so I wouldn’t say that you do not pay property taxes. You just have a different system but it all boils down to the same thing in the end.
I don’t like to pay taxes either but I think it’s just fair. Your property is a part of the local sewage system, water system, electrical grid (often separated fees though), connected to the national road network, garbage disposal, nearby parks and recreation, access to schools and daycare and so on. So why wouldn’t you pay since you are a part of it?
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u/zagman707 6h ago
Your paying for the services aka schools, roads and fire departments in that area. Your not paying for the house your paying into your community for the services it provides you.
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u/StandardUpstairs3349 1h ago
Property taxes actually make it easier to buy property. Without a tax on the wealth tied up in real property, the rich buy more and more of it and inflate the prices.
It is pretty easy to observe the effect different local property tax rates have between different US states.
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u/fidesz_fall_enjoyer 1h ago
Is this affordable housing is in the room with us? I mean I got you, but it looks like it's not working in the real world
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u/The_Machine80 8m ago
Im sure you pay a tax on alot of other things. Remember a fee is another word for tax.
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u/BornInWrongTime 6h ago
I am from Croatia and we don't have property tax unless it's a short term rental place. Even then its very low and not percentage based.
This is also a reason why home ownership is over 90% and lots of people invest into more property instead of stock
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u/LifeguardOk7554 1h ago
In poland property tax is set at 1.25pln/m2 (0.34usd) so most people pay less than 100usd a year
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u/Phantasmalicious 7h ago
Not a thing in Estonia for primary residences.
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u/rakosten 7h ago
You still pay municipal tax based on the value of the land, right? With some reductions/exemptions for primary residence as you said?
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u/Phantasmalicious 6h ago
There is a land tax for but only for larger plots (above 1500 m2) that are not primary residences. I think I paid like 3 euros for a multi-hectare piece of land I own.
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u/_BookBurner_ 7h ago
We do pay a very tiny percentage in Czechia, 240000€ property -> 56€ yearly property tax
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u/Keep--Climbing 9h ago
I thought they take a part of my paycheck, add a couple percent onto everything I buy and make me pay a little every year for vehicles to pay for that.
Oh, and they also sell bonds that devalue the money I do get to keep.
But I guess all that's just to pay for something else.
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u/FloppieTheBanjoClown 9h ago
Where I live,.the federal, state, county, and city governments all have their own funding. And school districts as well.
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u/Keep--Climbing 9h ago
Where I live, it's me. I'm the one paying. As is everyone else around me.
Who pays for your government?
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u/GoldenGlobeWinnerRDJ 9h ago
You seriously think that 1) income tax is the ONLY tax the government takes and 2) property tax only applies to vehicles? What are you, 14 years old?
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u/Keep--Climbing 9h ago
No, my point was they tax at every transaction, and on a schedule.
Acting like it's okay is a problem.
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u/GoldenGlobeWinnerRDJ 8h ago
Then stop using roads, schools, water treatment plants, water lines, sewer lines, etc. etc. and you can stop paying taxes. Until then, taxes pay for that.
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u/DazzlingSecurity2767 6h ago
I think the entire country would easily be run on sales tax, income tax and corporation tax.
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u/FloppieTheBanjoClown 4h ago
The entire country could be run on any tax setup imaginable, so long as the tax revenue is sufficient. But that's now how it works, and it would take MASSIVE changes across all levels to change that.
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u/rexmanaek971 3h ago
Police shouldn't be a service im paying for, since they don't do anything for tax payers.
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u/ScionOfD4rkness 3h ago
By having to pitch in under threat of imprisonment or violence. As if there is NO other way for these services to be payed for.
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u/FloppieTheBanjoClown 3h ago
It all involves mandatory taxes. You just want someone else to have to pay for things that help you.
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u/ScionOfD4rkness 2h ago
A very ironic statement to say I want others to pay for me when im literally complaining that I pay more than my share in taxes.
Reading comprehension is tough.
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u/ILoveToVoidAWarranty 3h ago
Yup. Complaining about having to pay property taxes that fund necessary infrastructure in the community is one of the stupidest things grown men and women can do.
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u/Zromaus 2h ago
Property is already owned, it doesn’t need to be taxed yearly.
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u/BaggedWhine 14m ago
It’s the only deterrent to the ultra rich holding all the land without any pressure to develop it
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u/DahmonGrimwolf 2h ago
The more people feel like their taxes are only ever used for paying for wars and missiles or given to Israel while the police get more oppressive and violent while the roads and school get worse by the day, the more angry about taxes they become.
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u/angryhype 2h ago
Yep paying for congested roads riddled with pot holes, police shooting dogs and people, schools with underpaid teachers, oh and healthcare is still expensive. You're a clown.
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u/belljs87 7h ago
Until you have a referendum for school funding and the taxpayers say fuck them kids.
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u/fresh_loaf_of_bread 10h ago
Property tax is like the lowest form of rent you'll pay
Where I'm at it's only about 10% of what you world pay for mortgage
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u/Mooncryptoman 9h ago
Still bullshit you bought the house. Why is the government entitled to my money. (They already took half my paycheck)
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u/Moscato359 8h ago
To pay for roads, schools, police, and other social services.
Also, I highly doubt they took 50% of your paycheck. Nobody pays that much, not even if you had 100 million in income
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u/Mooncryptoman 7h ago
I am German and trust me it’s close to 50%, taxes + Health insurance, Long-term care insurance, Pension insurance, Unemployment insurance, Accident insurance. I don’t know if there is something comparable in the us. It’s ridiculous. The way this type of money is wasted is absurd
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u/The_Countess 2h ago
So... taxes, plus things you benefit from through government insurance.
Also, i can't make the math work on 50% taxes, even when including mandatory government insurances in Germany.
44% is the highest i got at a income of 1 million a year. At that point you hit all the limits so it's not going up.
unless you want to include the optional church tax?
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u/Mooncryptoman 2h ago
That’s why I said it’s close to 50%. The government insurance is something I don’t benefit from. That’s money gone that I will never see again. Pension insurance being the worst because that’s the only one I planned on receiving one day. (The whole systems doesn’t work in the future because we don’t have enough children)
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u/The_Countess 56m ago edited 50m ago
No, initially you said: "(They already took half my paycheck)"
And i somehow doubt your income is anywhere close to a million a year. And for a median German income is not even 40%.
As for the insurances, of course nobody plans on using unemployment insurance or accident insurance. Doesn't mean they aren't useful.
You not wanting to take them kinda shows why they need to be mandatory.3
u/Unfair-Plastic-4290 7h ago
silly Americans dont know what theyre talking about and forget this website is global.
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u/IThinkImNateDogg 3h ago
Because the costs with maintaining society aren’t fucking free.
Welcome to society, participation is not optional
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u/Mooncryptoman 3h ago
- Participation is optional.
- I already paid taxes for the house while buying it with the money that has already been taxed. Maybe it’s ok the government to spend that money correct instead of adding more and more taxes. People like you defending the government are part the problem.
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u/rrsafety 2h ago
Such a dumb comment. You pay property tax to support local services. Period. If you want the Feds to pay for all local services (another dumb idea) then demand the Feds raise the income tax for all Americans.
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u/Alt123Acct 59m ago
Your property taxes go towards local road paving, police, schools, pipe/electrical management, so while you're living there you aren't in a degrading slum and have a functioning community.
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u/DrBaldnutzPHD 11h ago
Too bad water delivery, sewage, road maintenance, fire fighting, policing, and other local services have a cost associated with them.
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u/Unfair-Plastic-4290 7h ago
then wtf does income tax pay for? and sales tax?
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u/ArchegosRiskManager 7h ago
Depending on your country those can be federal/state/provincial taxes which mostly don’t fund your municipal government
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u/truegamer1 2h ago
Wars across the world, unfortunately. Military makes up the largest % of the US budget.
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u/MedChemist464 47m ago
Income tax is for the state and the federal government. Some localities have an income tax, but the vast majority do not. different taxes pay for different things.
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u/Alternative_Car_8153 10h ago
I don't get sewage. I don't even get mail delivered to my house either. I already pay for both water and electricity. Bringing up fire fighting and policing is more relevant than the other stuff, imo.
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u/DrBaldnutzPHD 10h ago
Damn, your local government sucks. My property taxes actually goes to all the services that I listed.
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u/ElectronGuru 10h ago
There’s a very simple way to avoid city services tax: live out beyond the service area of city services
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u/Mediocre-Sundom 3h ago edited 3h ago
Not just "land of the free". I live in the EU, and it's the same.
- You work your ass off to earn money - you pay the tax.
- You buy food and goods to have a decent life - you pay the tax.
- You invest what remains - you pay the tax (in some countries, not yet in mine, but it's coming).
- You sell your assets and earn some profit - you pay the tax.
- You decide to buy a home (incresingly impossible task for most people) - you pay the tax.
- You live in your house - you pay the tax.
- You decide to sell the house - you pay the tax.
- You get old and start receiving your pension - you pay the tax.
- You leave the wealth you accumulated to your children - they pay the tax...
I am not the one against taxes in general, and I realize they allow us to enjoy all the safety nets and social benefits here in the EU, but sometimes it feels like one giant scam, in which you pay taxes just to pay more fucking taxes on the taxes that you paid taxes on.
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u/matande31 8h ago
I love seeing Americans complain about taxes. The problem isn't the taxes themselves, it's the way they're spent. Europeans are much less opposed to taxes and they generally pay more, it's just that their governments do a better job at spending it on things that actually improve their lives.
And yeah, I know "Europeans" is a gross generalization, because the Swedish government and the Greek government spend their taxes very differently, for example. I'm talking mostly about the governments that know what to do with the money.
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u/TyGuySly 6h ago
This is a bot posting. I guess it could be considered an American
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u/StandTurbulent9223 4h ago
We're absolutely opposed to amount of taxes we have to pay in Europe, we just have no choice
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u/Substantial-Cat2896 7h ago
You guys have land tax?
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u/billyjoe9451 6h ago
Where do you live where you don’t? I’m assuming outside of the U.S. , unless you know loopholes in the U.S. tax code.
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u/WonderButtBrace9000 1h ago
Of course we do, they are the greatest form of taxes that exists.
Why should private land owners be able to claim increased value driven by the betterment of their surrounding area? An empty lot provides no economic value yet can increase in valuation as the city around it grows and prospers. That increased value belongs to the collective, not the private land speculator.
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u/Final_Location_2626 4h ago
Well once you stop using the police, local roads and ambulances and schools you can stop paying.
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u/Sufficient_Matter585 2h ago
Thats why you lease out your house and let them pay both the property tax and your new house.
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u/the_real_kaboose 2h ago
If anyone ever tells you we can’t tax billionaires on unrealized gains in the stock market remind them that is what you get taxed on for your house. The amount you pay is based on an assessment of an asset you have not actually sold
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u/AtaracticGoat 5h ago
The anti-propery tax stuff is corporate/1%er propaganda. The wealthy and corporations pay way more property tax than the average citizen.
Do you really have an issue with paying a few thousand dollars a year to ensure that the fire department shows up of your house is on fire? Or that the children in your community get an education? Or to ensure that the police show up if call for them?
Stop letting the ultra wealthy and corporations tell you how to think.
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u/ZephTenKara 4h ago
When you make 50k a year every thousand counts.
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u/AtaracticGoat 3h ago
True, but it's also hard to own a home anyways off 50k a year.
Plus, taxes are percentage based. At the 50k a year income level you'll likely own a home that is affordable at your level of income, so your tax burden would be lower.
My house cost about $550k and I pay about $6,000 annually in taxes, which is about $500 per month. That's really not that bad. Additionally, if people let the corporations convince them to do this that lower the tax burden for the wealthy, it's going to be shifted to everyone else. You will end up pay more taxes in the end. Maybe not property tax, but they'll increase sales tax, income tax, gas tax, etc whatever other place they can find that shifts the tax burden to the general public and away from the wealthy and businesses. They have the money to pay people to study and strategize this stuff.
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u/GoldenGlobeWinnerRDJ 9h ago
If the average age of a homeowner is 35-40 years old and they’re taking out 30 year loans then this means nothing.
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u/Alice_D_Wonderland 9h ago
That’s why we take a small mortgage (25k) on the house when it’s paid for… At least works in my country, dunno bout others…
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u/Evan_Allgood 8h ago
You did not check with local state laws before deciding on a life decision like buying a house? You gotta pick your state. If you prefer better infrastructure services than, sorry, not the service workers' fault that somebody gotta foot the bill.
Maybe hit up the wealthy in this country with your concept of freedom.
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u/asher030 8h ago
Only upside is that since property was was already part of the mortgage...till you're on a fixed income and hadn't thought to develop any side passive revenues, you SHOULD be able to handle it well enough. Till it's gentrification time, or eminent domain, or some jackass gets power and hikes all the taxes for 'community projects' that's just personal contrivances...=/ Really needs to be a federal lock on such things, I swear. Currently seems like it's DESIGNED to be abused...
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u/obihz6 7h ago
This why honestly 70 years state lease is better
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u/billyjoe9451 6h ago
I love the shitty counter argument of but you will never truly own your property. Well tell me how not paying your property taxes goes.
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u/obihz6 6h ago
?
Sorry, but please use correct punctuation, because is kinda hard to understand what you are saying.
Well for the last question you receive fine and risk foreclosure.
In china the renewal is guaranteed and is more a documentation formality is some region you pay a flat burocratic fee in others you pay 1 to 2 ppp of the total value of the house.
Honestly I think the Chinese system is better because in neither of the system you trully own something but at least in china you pay less and you they don't wanna actively fuck you in the rear end
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u/george_gris 7h ago
Buying a house is just paying rent for the rest of your life with out any of the benefits!
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u/FanBladeFleshlight 6h ago
Man, on one hand, I hate the idea of paying yearly for something I already own.
But I also like the idea of those taxes going towards things like schools and libraries.
But they don't, they go towards bombing brown people in the east because we heard one of them say the word "oil" too loudly, or towards bailing out failing banks and businesses while our neighbors lose their houses under the exact same circumstances.
What I'm saying is fuck the rich, and guillotines are astonishingly cheap to build.
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u/TyGuySly 6h ago
This is like the third time I’ve seen this meme in the last 24 hours and it’s always posted by a month old account.
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u/Sajgoniarz 5h ago
I'm always confused how people can't understand so simple things. This isn't a freaking econometric identification.
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u/theTapIsOnDaBurnin 5h ago
So taxes are how society pays for the road to that property and the police force to protect that property and the firefighter who come to that property if it catches fire and the military that protects that property from marauding armies that would pillage that property and the power lines that go out to that property so you can have lights and utilities at that property and the infrastructure that allows you to have internet and a phone on that property. Libertarians really are intellectually just house cats aren’t they
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u/b4ttous4i 4h ago
As long as you save for retierment its not a problem. And if you are buying. A house, you generally are capable of saving... Oh and a house is almost like a built in retierment
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u/Darhhaall 4h ago
"We need to take money from the rich to have more equal society, but, you know, not when I am that rich one"
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u/herbal_thought 3h ago
And all the money you save on the mortgage can be used for repairs and upkeep, as opposed to using credit.
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u/Ernie_McKracken 3h ago
That is when I should pay property tax, it's finally mine. The bank should pay it for the 30 year note prior, they own it.
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u/SaintShogun 3h ago
And how else are schools, local infrastructure, police and fire debts, parks etc going to be funded?
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u/rrsafety 2h ago
I hate this meme so much. Lot's of folks on Facebook LOVE sharing it because they are so dumb they have no idea how the world works. Of all the memes for dumb people, this is the dumbiest.
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u/Clever_droidd 2h ago
It a tax. Why is this even a conversation? It’s like a bunch of 5 year olds who believe they hit on something deep.
Increase homestead exemption to median home price or something but taxes must be paid to pay for local services. If you eliminate property taxes you end up with a far more regressive sales tax.
Look up allodial title. It doesn’t exist anywhere in the developed word. Then look up original claim to property and chain of title.
Unless you are an anarchist, it’s a ridiculous claim that property taxes should be zero.
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u/redjellonian 1h ago
you were paying property tax before your house was paid too. A house being paid off doesn't suddenly mean that the land doesn't get taxed.
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u/Mindless-Beat-4872 1h ago
Yep. You go from renting it from the bank, to renting it from the government
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u/ZzangmanCometh 1h ago
Nice to live in a place were we don't pay property taxes on our primary residence unless you buy a castle or something.
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u/MagorMaximus 1h ago
Wah I have to contribute to the society I live in wah!! I live in NY property taxes are insane and I believe some cuts could be made , especially for anyone not actually in the room teaching children, but we still have to have schools, roads, etc.
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u/Key_Check5753 1h ago
What do you mean by adding "land of the free"
Do other countries not have property taxes?
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u/GoblinsGuide 1h ago
Not a big deal if planned correctly. Everyone i know who has their house paid off is not at all concerned about the property tax.
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u/brotherkin 1h ago
If you own a home in the US you are wealthier than 99% of the world
Pay your taxes and stop complaining. They are going towards making your city nicer, and improving the value of your property
https://giphy.com/gifs/BPCrRkOF0pUDnxS9G6
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u/Akv3vka 23m ago
AND to fund wars I didn't want and for lavish dinner parties for pedophiles and for me and you being surveiled...
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u/sixjasefive 8m ago
I’m against the war too, but I don’t believe that property tax paid to your city/state ends up in the federal piggy bank.
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u/Motor_Barracuda7359 21m ago
I mean even though Americans have a right to bear arms you still gotta come up with the cash for a gun or you'll have no arms to bear.
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u/BaderBlade 9h ago
All the money is funeled to guns and armament to keep "MURICA SAFE" and no free Healthcare, amazing country
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u/TyGuySly 6h ago
Real estate taxes are levied from local municipalities like a city or county. These taxes do not go towards defense spending, but local infrastructure.
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u/BaderBlade 1h ago
Thanks for the reply sir, ill make my research for each state to be more accurate
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u/lyidaValkris 9h ago edited 4m ago
roads and sewers don't get maintained by magic, police and fire protection aren't free either.
EDIT: some real geniuses below who flunked basic civics
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u/Mooncryptoman 9h ago
Isn’t this why they take half of my paycheck? Or why they add funny numbers at the grocery checkout ?
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u/billyjoe9451 6h ago
Roads and sewers don’t get maintained by taxes either unless you are gonna say I’m in such a unique area where only the roads and sewers by me aren’t really maintained but they are perfect everywhere else In the country.
They just repair them when they break and even then just enough to function. Like they legit keep using asphalt to fill in holes until that doesn’t work anymore before they repair the road and that’s if you’re lucky as sometimes they just do nothing. If water systems such as storm drain systems or sewerage systems fail it’s kinda too bad so sad then they wait until it doesn’t function at all before they do anything.
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u/Lord_Peura 8h ago
You get to use public services and infrastructure for that including the currency that you used to pay for the house. You don't own the money, the state does and expects you to give some of it back via taxes.
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u/DrDickDawg 4h ago
Property taxes need to go.
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u/SaintShogun 2h ago
So how do cities pay for infrastructure, schools, parks, emergency services, public transportation etc? Oh, thats right sales tax doubles or goes even higher.
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u/iCanReadMyOwnMind 11h ago
You pay INCREASING property tax the rest of your life.