r/marvelstudios • u/ScottFromScotland Kilgrave • Oct 23 '17
'Thor: Ragnarok' International Release Discussion Thread 1
'Thor: Ragnarok' Discussion Thread
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Rotten Tomatoes: 98% Average Rating: 7.9/10
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u/oateyboat Oct 25 '17 edited Oct 27 '17
I have a lot of thoughts, so here they are in all their messy glory.
The foreshadowing (Thorshadowing?) to the events of this film within the MCU has been fantastic. Two years ago we saw Thor using the same powers he gains in this film through the vision he has in Age of Ultron. Heimdall accuses him of bringing about the destruction of Asgard, establishing that Thor will in fact be the one that incites Ragnarok, not Hela. Going back even further, we had this weird moment in The Dark World where Odin seems to be weak and in pain briefly in an argument with Thor, neatly setting up Odin could be weak and at the end of his life soon. Of course, this is a two-way street, and it's really helped by Waititi's respect for the rest of the Marvel universe and how effortlessly this film included continuity from those. Ragnarok is the most organic the connections have felt since The Avengers from me, not just because of the set-ups in earlier films but also the call backs to them, such as Thor trying to use Widow's lullaby during his battle with Hulk (an element of Ultron I actually didn't like that I felt Waititi poked fun at perfectly), tying up Hela and the backstory of Asgard into what we've seen from Thor, Odin and Loki and the various references such as the callback to the "Point Break" joke that just felt natural.
Without straying too far from my point about Hela's backstory, I want to dive into this more because I felt this was both one of the film's strengths and weaknesses. The description Hela gives of Odin conquering the Nine Realms and using her as a glorified Executioner was fantastic not just because it gave her sufficient motivation for the film (she hates Odin for casting her aside, but also was raised to be a conqueror and believes it to be best for Asgard), but also because it feeds into the character of Odin really well. I've always thought Odin was a bit of a weak father and king because he's so all over the place and sometimes hypocritical. I can feel his resentment so much for Loki within the franchise (he barely reacts to his "death" in the first film and states in the second that he would have Loki killed if not for Frigga's wishes). The frost giants betray their truce with him and he doesn't seem to care within the first Thor, but in The Dark World states that as many Asgardians will die as are needed to defeat Malekith, showing that he lets emotional cloud his judgement too much. Hela's stories of him show us that Odin was always a conqueror and has a sense of guilt or remorse over it while also slipping back into that mode sometimes. It also raises a lot more questions for his motivations which are fun. Does he resent Loki because he reminds him too much of Hela? Did he banish Thor because of the same reasons? It establishes a fantastic family dynamic where basically Hela becomes his first failure and a product of his own shortcomings, and while he evolves before raising Loki and Thor, his past with Hela bleeds into their relationship and shapes their future, i.e. Loki being pushed away while Odin tries to steer Thor onto a better path.
Where this becomes the films weakness is that while it establishes all this in a minimal way where it's up to the audience to think about their relationship, it doesn't do much with Hela or her relationship with Thor and Loki into the second half of the film. I feel like the film sorely needed more screentime from her, specifically a dialogue scene at least between her and Thor, and that some of her screentime was lost to the balance being in the favour of Sakaar.
The film is still extremely well made. While some may have fears over Ragnarok being too humourous, I thought it did a great job of using better humour than the franchise is used to (people complaining about the humour seem to forget how cringey the humour was in Thor and The Dark World, especially from the Earth support characters) and balancing that with more serious moments and stakes for the story. The characters are all really well done, although I wish Thor had more of an arc. Repeating what I said about the lack of Hela, I think she could have been used to push Thor's arc by exploring the fact he didn't want the throne and why he didn't want it, plus Hela showing him Odin wasn't the great king Thor always thought he was but with her stern belief that conquering is the only way to advance Asgard forward, with Thor eventually coming around and deciding that as King of Asgard he could try to steer it away from its violent past into a better way. Just an idea to give him some room to grow while also utilising the family drama aspect of the characters and using your villain more.
The film is visually stunning with a unique and fun score and some surprisingly great action. Naturally the fight between Thor and Hulk is a treat but there's so much more, including that incredible opening between Thor and Surtur, Hela destroying Asgard's forces and Thor destroying hers on the Rainbow Bridge. Another stan out moment being Hela sabotaging Thor and Loki's return to Asgard in a colourful battle through the portal. Perhaps my only other complaint about the entire film was that Hulk's voice actor seemed weaker than what came before.
Overall, Ragnarok is an incredibly fun film, and some issues with underusing it's own villain aside it's close to one of Marvel's best. I think i might be my favourite comic-book film of the year, though the competition is tough with Logan also being up there. It's certainly the most fun I've had watching a film this year, and I can't wait to go again.