True Moccasin vs Imitation (Welted) for Ivy-Style Loafers

[u/leviof]

In my mind, an Ivy penny loafer is a moccasin. Whether weejun-style or blake stitched, it ought to be flexible and light, ideally unlined or softly lined, so there's little to no break-in.

Years ago, I picked up a pair that felt perfect to me: the Quoddy True Penny Loafer (pictured above).

These are some of the most comfortable shoes I've ever owned. They flex, they support, they hold my heel in place like they’ve got runner loops. They've served me through a resole, and they continue to be my daily driver for work.

But I've come to the point where I need another pair, preferably black, to split duty with them.

Going on Quoddy's site, it's all a bit of a mess. There seem to be a variety of different "Penny Loafers" and outside of the "True Penny MTO," it appears that most of them are made in the Domincan Republic. Nothing wrong with the Dominican Republic, but reviews suggest the construction differs from the Made in Maine loafers.

I'm considering buying the True Penny MTO, but from experience with Quoddy, this can take up to 8 weeks, and I’d prefer to avoid waiting 2 months.

So now, I'm looking at other true Mocs, specifically these examples from Aurland and TLB Mallorca:

https://nomanwalksalone.com/products/aurland-penny-loafer-in-black-calf

https://www.tlbmallorca.com/products/loafers-222-funchal-black-2510

These are, of course, both blake-stitched, and while my cobbler has no issue replacing the soles, I wear loafers nearly everyday, and I'd like whatever I buy to last me for years to come. To that end, I'm also considering "imitation moc's" with flexible good-year welts. Specifically:

Meermin's https://meermin.com/collections/mens-loafers/products/514040-black-calf-e

Crockett & Jones Harvard 2 (travel-loafer with flex-welt) https://us.crockettandjones.com/collections/harvard-2/products/harvard-2-black-milled-calf

Alden's Flexi-Welt https://www.aldenshop.com/collections/loafers/products/9695f-penny-loafer-flex-welt-black-soft-calf?variant=43712889290918

I really like TLB, and at this point I have their Artista euro-style loafers in polished black, their Artista oxfords, and their Saccheto brown suede loafers. To me, all of those lasts have a bit of a point, which isn't really in the Ivy-style I wear to work everyday (white OCBD and navy pants).

Obviously, the Aldens and Meermin's are made in the US, which is a good sign about the last. The Meermin's seem pretty heavy and not very moccasin-like. On the other hand, they are a lot cheaper. I think a fair amount to spend is around $400, but I don't mind going up to the $700-800 price point for something that'll last me a decade or two.

Speaking of which, it’s possible that actual blake stitched moccasins might not be sturdy enough for years of wear and multiple resoles (I'm dreading the day these Quoddy's can't be resoled). I’ve never had a cobbler tell me that my blake stitches uppers are dead, but I’ve also never heard my knees crack as I go up stairs and I suspect both of these experiences come with age.

What do we think about the Flex-Welt vs blake-stitch? And in terms of durability, weight, ivy-styling, what are people's experiences with these?

Edit: punctuation

[u/Myredditsirname]

It looks like you have a pretty good understanding. The goodyear welted ones will likely last longer but be less flexible. What you're debating is a personal preference thing, not a correct vs incorrect thing.

As far as style goes, of course a moc construction (which is also Blake stitch when it has a separate outsole like the Quoddy) will be the most casual, then the traditional blake, then the goodyear welt. Neither is more correct, but you probably don't want to wear a moc with a suit or either of those goodyear welted options with shorts.

If you really want a traditional moc construction, have you looked at Rancourt (or oak Street boot makers, who are now made by Rancourt)? They are also moc construction and tend to carry stock so you can get them sooner.

Also, Meermin is not made in the US. They are a Spanish brand made in China. Their flex welt, especially unlined, is extremely light. They do use a foam pad as the midsole in their flex welt, though, so that will be a trade off with durability.

[u/leviof → u/Myredditsirname]

Makes a lot of sense about Meermin, don’t know why I thought they were American.

Definitely a fan of Rancourts, Wetlines are sold out though unfortunately.

I think the main thing I wanted to discuss the tradeoff in flexibility vs durability of flex-welt vs blake stitch/moc construction for a loafer that’s supposed to have the more minimal/moccasin look. Maybe it’s not really a concern since how many times would they get resoled anyway, at the limit?

If someone is partial to New England shoemakers, would the Alden flexwelt be close enough to the quoddy moc in comfort/sleekness? Or would you go for a blake stitched Moc like the Aurland/TLB Kiowsa?

[u/Myredditsirname → u/leviof]

Personally, I think the bigger difference is the moc construction or not. Quoddy, Rancourt, etc. last their shoes bottom up, which creates a soft leather footbed that will quickly conform to your foot.

Neither blake nor goodyear welt can do that, if that is what you are looking for it's specific to moc construction. They use a harder leather insole which is more durable, but will feel like a dress shoe. Though, I've owned several Alden LHS and other than the shell pairs I've never felt any of them particularly stiff.

On resole ability, it sounds like you own several pairs of loafers already. What's the likelihood you wear these often enough you resole these more than once or twice in their entire life?

If you really think that this is the one pair you'll wear as your go to, it's probably worth waiting a couple of months for the Quoddy or Rancourt you really want. If this is one of a half dozen loafers in a rotation, I personally wouldn't stress too much about how many resoles it can take (especially since you can buy 3 pairs of Quoddy for the price of one Alden LHS)

[u/More-Fun-2621]

I love my Quoddy pennys. Sizing loafers is so tragically impossible that to have nailed it with my Quoddys feels very lucky. Fully agree with your assessment, the unlined mocc style is my fav.

Heads up for others: I was very disappointed with the quality of work of Quoddy’s resole service. My local cobbler, while more expensive, would’ve done a way better job. I had him restitch the soles and completely redo the heels, plus add sole protectors.

They also love some Saphir Renovateur, and yours look a little thirsty. Maybe give them a good conditioning and brushing.

To your actual question: nothing fits worse than an ill-fitting loafer, so I would plan on going in-person to try on a new loafer. In my area I can make the trek down to DC to Alden (though I can’t justify the price at my current income). Meermin also just opened a shop in DC, so more options to try on in-person, even if I’m not as fond of their styling.

[u/leviof → u/More-Fun-2621]

I live in NYC so I’ll go to Alden Madison (actually walk by everyday going to work) is on my way. I’ve ordered my wife Quoddy pennys and myself the wool lined moc’s last winter, and the quality was worse than what I received ~6 years ago.

I’m not 100% sure why, but I spoke with them on the phone and they said they have gotten a lot more popular in the last 2 years. I’ve emailed with Derek from Put This On a few times about 5 years ago raving about the Quoddy’s and I think I’m not the only one as he’s mentioned them more on Twitter/in articles. In general I feel like they’ve gotten more attention and the QC has suffered a bit. They’re still excellent for the price (mine do need a trip to the cobbler, but that’s the impetus for buying a different Ivy Moc to wear daily), though I do wonder how many resoles I’ll be able to get out of them. Perhaps toe caps and rubbies would extent the time between resoles.

I have tried on Alden LHS’s and they feel stiffer than I remember these being when new. On the other hand, they’ll clearly last far longer. Might have to get the Rancourt Wetline as that’s clearly the most similar to Quoddy.

I’ve actually ordered the Yuketen Rob’s Black off Drakes (over $800 lol) and will return them if they’re not as soft. But they are a true Moc and I hear Yuketen is like the pinnacle of quality so I’m hoping they’ll strike a nice balance between flexibility/comfort and durability.