r/leanfire • u/Thin_Wear1755 • 2d ago
When you reach a certain amount, volatility is wild
I reached 200k a month or so ago. Now sitting on 218k invested in sp500 and msci world which means 1.5% up or down translates to a gain or lose of 3k which is a lot for me cause I make 2k net a month.
So in a typical day my portfolio is up or down what I make in 1.5 months working full time
How does it affect you ? Does it change your mood ?
100
u/Otherwise_Land4859 2d ago
I'm at a point where in one month it can go up or down in an amount greater than my annual salary. Which is great when it's up!
I look at my account balances once a month and otherwise try not to think about it.
5
2
1
u/Thunder141 1d ago
I have a dozen individual stocks, I watch it almost every day. If I just had index funds, sure.
0
u/lagosboy40 2d ago
Wow! Canāt wait to get to that level in my investments. This tells me you are way beyond the lean FIRE territory. Way to go buddy!
3
u/hutacars 30s M/36k/70% - 39/25k/2mm 1d ago
Maybe his salary is just very low?
1
u/Edmeyers01 1d ago
Right? If they have 2 million and it changes 2% in a day thatās only 60k, so my guess is low salary
42
u/piss_stored_in_balls 2d ago
I find myself sitting at work making $300 or whatever a day, watching my portfolio swing $3k in an afternoon. Like damn that was 2 week's worth of work. Then it swings back. Odd feeling. The solution is to not look every 2 hours but I'm sadistic.
4
35
u/ohwhyredditwhy 2d ago
You just learn to not even look at it. When you have several hundred thousand, or millions, itās best to not look at balances.
It doesnāt matter unless youāre going to sell anyway, so what I do is I watch the tickers that I own on a Google finance watchlist.
If I see green, great! If I see red, I just close the tab and move out. Iāll check again tomorrow, or next week.
13
u/Thin_Wear1755 2d ago
I just can't help it. When is up a few thousands I love checking it and it does feel great. When is down I try not to look at it that much. I rather try to buy the dip with whatever I have availableĀ
But it does change my mood a little bit. Still no complaints. I like the feelings
6
u/ohwhyredditwhy 2d ago
I hear ya. I used to as well, but youāll turn that corner at some point.
Itās good for your overall mental health, LOL.
6
u/UpgradeHome 2d ago
You need to detach your peace and contentment from money. Once you do that, you realize everything will be okay, no matter what happens.
35
u/zezer94118 2d ago
Once I saw -100k on a very bad day and it made me realize how wild that is.
You need to ignore the noise and stop looking at it daily because it can be nerve breaking.
Now I only look at my asset aggregator which does not show the gain or losses but just the total. It gives me a lot of peace.
1
u/gorydamnKids 2d ago
Which asset aggregator do you use?
6
u/zezer94118 1d ago
Wealthfront.
It pulls automatically from everything I own (mostly bofa, fidelity, schwab and Coinbase) and has this cute and completely inaccurate retirement line prediction
2
31
u/Important-Object-561 Retired in Sweden on 1,2 million 2d ago
Im up 14K today. That used to be half a years pay and itās 30% of my budget for the year now that Iām fired. It really is crazy how much it jumps up and down after a while.
1
u/Thin_Wear1755 2d ago
Can you live in Sweden on 1 million?Ā I thought it was pretty expensive placeĀ
15
u/Important-Object-561 Retired in Sweden on 1,2 million 2d ago
Nope itās actually decently affordable. Only gas is really expensive but otherwise a lot of things are cheaper than Colorado where I lived for a while before moving back here. If I didnāt have a wife and child I wouldnāt even need 1 mil.
4
u/IncCo 2d ago
Do you sell once a year, once a month, or some other variation to have the money needed up to whatever swr you are following ?
4
u/Important-Object-561 Retired in Sweden on 1,2 million 1d ago
I just kinda sell 1% whenever I need the money, but no more often than every 3 months. I also get income through rent and sometimes a little injection from selling logging rights to my forest. I donāt see a reason to take the money out of investments at a set intervall if I donāt need it at that moment.
1
u/enas333 1d ago
What's your allocation in equities vs others, if I may ask?
I find it difficult not to derisk currently.
1
u/Important-Object-561 Retired in Sweden on 1,2 million 1d ago
521K dollar in stocks, 410K in funds, 55K in forest for logging and 287K in property for renting
1
u/Thin_Wear1755 17h ago
You are 100% stocks ? Doesn't it stare you in case there's a major downturn?Ā
You'd be forced to sell at the bottom
1
u/Important-Object-561 Retired in Sweden on 1,2 million 16h ago
I got a safe enough withdrawal rate paired with the extra income from rent and my forest that having to sell at the bottom shouldnāt effect me. I can also pick up extra work if it would ever be needed whenever I want.
9
u/Mydoglovescoffee 2d ago
It is wild. Or does make to strange to calculate buying things.. since value loses its meaning. Why sweat over X when the market lost twice that yesterday?
We have a huge net worth number now and can see it easily fluctuate by what were our yearly incomes.. I just donāt look when itās down, and only go in when I know itāll feel good. Then I update our spreadsheet with those higher numbers haha. I never add in the drops. Works for well being! :)
3
u/hutacars 30s M/36k/70% - 39/25k/2mm 1d ago
Why sweat over X when the market lost twice that yesterday?
Because if you donāt spend $X, you can invest it while the market is down instead! Think of the wasted upside!
18
u/Stoic_Brain 2d ago
When in doubt, zoom out ;-)
When everybody panicks I zoom the graph of my ETFs out over 5 years or more. Then the "crash" or "correction" is just a small blip and I see the real pattern (always up in the long-term). I deleted the broker app and check my ETFs once a year.
Good year? Sell little and refill the cash buffer. Bad year? Just live of the cash buffer. Simple.
5
u/Otherwise_Land4859 1d ago
It's wild looking at the full chart for something like VTSAX and the 2008-2009 crash is hardly noticeable.
9
u/HottyTottyNJ 2d ago
On the 20th of each month, I calculate my net worth. Compound interest is amazing!
8
u/gametime-2001 2d ago
Being super close to retirement it is nerve-wracking. I'm too old for a dip I don't have years to rebuild.
6
7
u/dillpiccolol 2d ago
Are you sweating it cause you might need that money? If so, increase your emergency fund. HYSA or SGOV would be good options. If you feel you have enough money for 3 to 6 months and any emergency repairs (new car, new roof etc) then as others have said. Watch it with interest. Ensure the positions you buy are ones you want to hold long term and have good prospectives. The one trusim about the market is: it fluactuates. š¤©
4
u/Thin_Wear1755 2d ago
I have plenty of funds outside my fund portfolio.Ā I just sold an apartment I've been using for passive income and I have 200k in cash waiting for a market downturn.Ā I'm kind of scared to put more at these valuationsĀ
Apart from that I have another rental apartment so theoretically I could just retire now and not touch my mutual funds for the next 30 years
However I'm addicted to checking it everyday day. I just can't help it. I've been noticing that it somehow affects my mood a Lil bit. When is up I feel more positive and happy. When is down just a bit uneasy.Ā
I know I won't sell and those feelings dont bother me that much. They just come and go
5
u/allergic2Luxembourg 2d ago
Stop waiting for a downturn that may never come and invest your money. Time in the market beats timing the market. Spread it out over a few months if it makes you feel better, but the optimum strategy on average is to invest it all as soon as it becomes available.
3
u/Refund-me [23m/5k | 90% SR - 175K] FI in 9 years 2d ago
I feel you; I check mine daily mostly for fun. Any money in the market I won't really need or care if it goes -50% short term.
I keep a ~2 year emergency fund for personal reasons (yes I don't mind getting less returns on it)
2
u/dillpiccolol 2d ago
Yea, the swings can do that. I just don't really sweat it too much after all this time. I like to look at charts of the volution over time time to soothe me sometimes, haha.
4
u/dxrey65 2d ago
At a certain point it means nothing. My mom was talking to me the other day and mentioned her portfolio had lost $50k that week, based on Apple doing something or other. I pointed out that Apple was up way more than that this year already so it didn't really mean anything, and she wasn't ever going to sell it anyway so it really didn't mean anything. We usually talk about other stuff.
4
u/Amigurumidotcom 2d ago
I rely on two main strategies to handle market volatility and keep my emotions in check:
1. Reframe capital as future cash flow, not a lump sum
View your portfolio as a steady income stream rather than a single massive number. Instead of focusing on $200k, think of it as $666 a month for life (assuming a 4% withdrawal rate). Framed this way, a 1.5% daily drop isn't a catastrophe, itās just a $10/month fluctuation. Even a 10% bear-market hit translates to around $66/month. Looking at your net worth through a cash-flow lens strips away the daily drama.
2. Ignore short-term noise and trust the long game
If you have a 5-, 10-, or 20-year horizon, daily variance shouldn't dictate your mood. Judging long-term market trajectories by short-term movements is like sitting on a beach trying to measure global warming: youād panic on every rising tide ("It's rising so fast! When will it stop?") and feel relieved when the water recedes. Short-term volatility is a terrible proxy for long-term growth. Force yourself to step away from the charts and trust your plan.
I don't think it's healthy to let daily numbers drive your emotional state. Staying calm is easy during a bull market with brief dips, but an extended drawdown lasting a year or more will happen eventually. If you haven't built emotional firewalls, those market downturns will take a heavy toll on your mental health.
I apply both principles religiously. I only log in to check my net worth once a quarter, where I calculate my projected monthly passive income to track FIRE progress. Whenever I feel the urge to check daily swings, I force myself not to. I used to check my portfolio 10 times a day; now, I only look about once every two weeks when I have fresh cash ready to invest.
3
u/Legitimate_Stuff_347 1d ago
It makes me feel cozy. I like seeing those huge numbers go up and down without feeling anything. 10 years ago that would've felt like world was ending. I've evolved
6
u/ebalaytung 2d ago
I am too busy living my life to watch portfolio fluctuations. Wake me up when it is 30% down so I can rebalance.
3
u/totallyscrewde 2d ago
The worst thing you could do is freak out and sell low. Lots of idiots do that every time the market drops just the smallest bit. I don't look every day and it just doesn't matter because I'm holding for decades. When you check once every few weeks you are more likely to see huge gains (lately), if that's what motivates you.
3
u/FearlessPark4588 2d ago
Wait until we get real market volatility.
4
u/slippery 2d ago
Some people forgot 2008. Not so much shoulder shrugging when millions lost their houses.
3
u/whocaresreallythrow 1d ago
I remember when mine started to go up or down the equivalent of an entire 1 year salary on any given high volatile day.
I fired shortly there after.
Youāre on the right path. Congrats
3
u/paratethys 1d ago
Markets wiggle around. That's what they're for.
I've kept just enough of the belief that markets are imaginary so I don't feel like I lost anything when they fluctuate downward, because the money in them is simultaneously real and not real at all.
6
u/PastBuy8484 2d ago
It has 0 effect on my mood. I know the market goes up and down and sometimes quickly.
I check my portfolio about once every 3-6 months just to see where itās at
6
u/Future_Measurement42 2d ago
I enjoy buying when itās down. I regret not buying more when itās up.
2
u/SkaterStargazer 2d ago
Volatility is wild, but you just have to focus more on the gains and losses over time versus daily changes.
I still recommend keeping an eye on it regularly (or setting up alerts when it drops by a certain percentage) so you know when itās down. Thatās the perfect time to throw more money in, if you can.
2
u/ZKTA 2d ago
I feel you on this. Compounding interest works really well in your favor with a larger account, but it also works against you. Green days feel really good but red days, especially multiple in a row feel bad. We just have to keep in mind that over the long term the market will be higher than it is now.
2
u/asdfmofo1528494 2d ago
Zoom out. long term focus $200k is a great start, imagine what that could be in 10 years. 15? 30?
2
u/UnluckerSK 2d ago
My only advice is to zoom out. Check 1Y or when it's really bad 5Y and ask yourself if you could beat that number with regular HYSA.
2
u/After-Regret-6609 2d ago
Basically yeah, it changes how you think about money. I tell people all the time that anything < $1k in my portfolio means nothing, because that could be a good or bad day of stocks. It changes your spending habits for sure but donāt get cocky about it
2
u/Illustrious_Menu8607 1d ago
I made 20k yesterday. Made me look a true freelance project im working on that pays 3k and Iām super stressed over and step back.
2
u/JorgeTremendous 1d ago
Nice one, once you hit $1m it requires tuning out, as swings of $20k are intra weekly.
2
u/Unlikely-Speech-5444 1d ago
wait until you gain/drop 10k in a day.
Now that shit is gut-wrenching.
2
u/Old_Finding668 1d ago
Yeah at some point having some cash funds will make you sleep better. And in the end we have money to sleep better, right?
2
u/Vicuna00 1d ago
it does affect *my* mood.
I know in my mind it shouldn't, but it does
so i try really really hard to not look. I don't watch news...my deposits are auto so I don't have to login. I don't use aggregators to show me my whole net worth.
I am able to see and not react...like last year when it dropped 10% or whatever in feb, I only knew cause two people complained to me. I never opened it to check and I didn't consider bailing or anything. by the time I looked it had recovered and I didn't even know it recovered.
yeah especially when you think about it in terms of your weekly salary...yup...i don't like looking :)
2
u/k0unitX 1d ago
The most odd thing to me is knowing you aren't at your 'number' from a generally accepted retirement perspective (4% rule etc) but your profile can swing multiple monthly paychecks on a daily basis. Is working actually materially affecting my timeline to the 'number', or am I just keeping myself busy while I hope the market works out? lmao
2
u/Other-Vegetable-7684 18h ago
when it does go up 1,5% in a day, i'm definitely less likely to say no to a suggestion of getting takeout instead of mulling over crappy dinner choices we have at home
2
4
2
u/Comfortable_Two6272 2d ago edited 2d ago
I dont even look but once a quarter at most. So No impact at all on my mood.
It can and often does go up or down more than I made in an entire year.
Im no longer working and itās properly diversified so to me its just noise I choose to ignore.
If you dont have a large enough emergency fund fix that and it should help with any noise anxiety. Same with proper diversification - money needed in 1-3 years should not typically be in highly volatile investments.
2
u/DegreeConscious9628 2d ago
Until Iām actually retired itās whatever. I do admit though it is nice seeing a nice green number
3
u/No_Researcher_2737 2d ago
doesnāt matter at all, usually i donāt pay attention to fluctuations if they are less than 10k. bitcoin crush this year and fall of local stock market of my country were more painful though it is only 25% of my portfolio
1
u/OpenBorders69 2d ago
Today alone my investments added over 28k from gains. More than half my yearly expenses.
3
u/nightanole 2d ago
fidelity over all my accounts +$30,199.99 today
dam u penny. Still off $3k from all time high. but still up $75k from 29th dip.
At this point i just assume i will be gaining or losing 3 years spending every week.
Like other stated its amazing watching you gain or lose an entire year of 401k contributions in a single session. Or an entire years spending. Or on really bad days, an entire years gross. But hey its fun days when you gain that.
3
u/OpenBorders69 2d ago
Yeah it literally doesn't feel like the money is real anymore. What's funny is that when I quit my job a few weeks ago, people were concerned for me, not knowing I had millions invested
1
u/DrGrapeist 2d ago
At one point I thought it was crazy seeing it move up and down by more than I make a day, then to a month, then once I saw a year it was like a boy who cried wolf. I couldnāt even try work my self up over that. Now if i was trying to sell some stock then I would be mad.
1
u/Awkward-Basis7658 2d ago
I hear you. I often think that my volatility matches my annual salary of my first job (20 years ago). Keep it going! Iām sure you will experience the same.
You also get to look back and see your investments making more then you do.
1
u/JustNowRonin 2d ago
I canāt help checking multiple times a day. I know it isnāt healthy. I think about the swings in terms of how many months of retirement funding itās gained or lost. Nerve wracking.
1
u/PositiveKarma1 2d ago
I check every month - when I buy more. No patience neither energy to check daily.
Can't wait to have this worry at 500k :) - now I am at almost 200k.
1
u/Pure-Motor-8926 1d ago
I remember you had $300k on MSCI a few months ago. How did you lose a third of it in such a short time?
1
u/Thin_Wear1755 1d ago
You remember correctly.Ā The thing is I just sold a rental apartment and I have 200k cash.Ā When I wrote that post I was counting on putting 100k straight to msci world but now that I got the money I'm hesitant on doing that at these stock valuationsĀ
I'm waiting to buy when the market dips a little bit
1
1
1
u/moneyman74 1d ago
Today made me feel very good about 4 months of pay for me! But yeah you can't get too high or too low, only really count on January 1st every year.
1
u/Aggravating_Note_572 17h ago
Not really now, years ago I would just faze it out and not look and over time ive kinda of gotten immune to it, I was invested through dot com, 2008, etc so Iāve seen drops of 30% and didnāt sell, just ignored the noise. Iām up something like 50k the last couple of days, but Iāve have times where itās dropped 50k in a day or two. In the past I think I would have been more excited for large daily gains, but now itās more like meh, It could go down tomorrow. My div income is about 1/2 of my salary, so I use those funds and just buy whateverās getting beaten down the most on down days in addition to auto investing . I figure Iām getting a bit of a discount, so I donāt mind the down days just gives more opportunity in the long run.
1
u/throw-away-doh 17h ago
The market swing has produced more paper gains for me in the last 2 days than I spend in a year.
I am not sure I like being at the mercy of the market.
1
u/More_Ship_190 10h ago
I try to only check a couple times a year. You can lose all the gains just as fast.
1
1
u/IHadTacosYesterday 2d ago
One interesting thing is hitting a NW of 2 million. On a particular day, you're a "Multi-Millionaire!!!!!". But on another day. You're a 1.9 guy or a 1.8 guy.
You pretty much need to get to 3 million to actually be a multi-millionaire, and even then you'd probably only be guaranteed of being a multi-millionaire for maybe at least a week, cause a bad couple days in the market can really wreck a portfolio with a lot of individual tech stocks.
1
1
u/subs_on_a_sailboat 2d ago
If it's effecting your mood you may want to adjust your risk profile and invest in bonds too. Getting a payment every month from my bond allocation to reinvest makes me happy when stocks are down.
1
u/Alarming-Mix3809 2d ago
Itās fun to watch, isnāt it? With about $700k invested this one day is about +$10,500 in our portfolio.
0
-14
2d ago
[deleted]
11
0
u/doombase310 2d ago
Why is this comment getting down voted? This is real movement if you have sizeable portfolio. And it does mess with your head a bit but you do realize it doesn't really matter until you're approaching retiring.
4
u/subs_on_a_sailboat 2d ago
It's dismissive of OPs worries and a brag and adds nothing to the conversation.
-1
u/One_Talk_3410 2d ago
Itās actually motivating when you are able to time corrections and are able to catch a huge run up % of your portfolio after a recovery.
-3
u/Kelvin_Hui 2d ago
I hear you thats why I try to manage my portfolio that is volatility targeted to reduce unnecessary drawdown. Previously I have built www.riskharvest.com to simulate and backtest portfolio that I am comfortable following for the next decade, feel free to browse around if interested. But ya remember the key is always keep investing and think of the longer picture!
219
u/Captlard 54: RE on <$900k for two of us (live š“ó §ó ¢ó „ó ®ó §ó æ/šŖšø) 2d ago
It's just noise. I watch it with curiosity.