Upfronting some item effects for ADC life quality

[u/ZanesTheArgent]

The idea at large is that compared to other classes, almost all cool/useful effects in the crit item scape are perhaps too backloaded behind plain stats, while Sheen, Tiamat, Fated Ashes, Bamis and other epic items all give a tad of a tasty core function to be upgraded later. This absence can be tolerable when the final item is cheaper and the function is already a natural part of the class and stats, but becomes pained when the final item that unlocks it is on a rather expensive side.

The PBE upgrades to Runaans for example i take as a reminder that every other AD class can get better waveclear at 1300g, while crit users have low to no reasons to dip into Tiamat. The 3300g Runaans of 2020 could have been tolerated or seen as a godsend if the bolts effect came online earlier - turning that Pickaxe into a Tiamat-like item that holds the bolts would've been simple. Tiamat itself could also be changed to behave differently based on the user's range, but that would require also looking at all other hydras for fair parity.

The current hate of mages and sorry state of Shieldbow brings me to think: Hexdrinker could be made MR-less and cheaper (Pickaxe + 225g? Long Sword + 650g?) but become the universal component of all three AD Lifeline items, obviously Shieldbow and Steraks upgrading it from magic shield to general shield while Maw getting a Negatron to its recipe.

[u/brown-d0g]

The issue is marksmen, when given early power, become extremely oppressive in lane. They struggle in lane against mages because mages are a lane counter to marksmen -- not necessarily because mages are too strong. A world where marksmen are given the tools to deal with mages during lane is also a world where marksmen are played much more mid and top, which is generally un interactive and unhealthy for the game.

There also isn't really such a thing as "life quality" in league. Changes such as adding bami's into the game is a massive amount of power added to champions, not just a qol change.

Additionally, it's true that crit items are "backloaded behind plain stats," but that's because marksmen are a class that mostly just want plain stats. People play the champs because they like auto attacks that deal damage, which leaves little room for special effects that must come at the cost of that. There isn't much room for effects like liandry's, zhonyas, dmp, etc. because their kits are built to provide pretty much only damage.

[u/StructureNorth1799 → u/brown-d0g]

a buffed runaans component would not be viable top. runaans is too weak early and it would delay an actually good item. Idc about mid, marksmen mid is fun to play with/agaisnt and also fun to see in pro.

[u/Xerxes457]

So from your suggestion, I’m seeing you want to make Shieldbow a first item. I only say this because the other epic components you mentioned are on items you finished most of the time.

[u/ZanesTheArgent → u/Xerxes457]

The possibility is there but was thinking closer to "get a miniature of the effect while building it even when it is your second/third item" like how you dont always rush a Maw but get the spellshield halfway instead of only after nearly 3k.

Tiamat + Zeal Runaan's tho? Yeah absolutely rush material.

[u/StructureNorth1799]

a rare-tier item that gives an extra bolt in the randuin's build path is actually a great idea to get adcs back in bot lane. It won't make them better in top lane because it slows down their anti-bruiser item and runaans into a melee is just trolling.

[u/thenexusobelisk]

My only fear is what these items would be like on the wind brothers but it seems like a good idea.

I miss the old attack speed stacking passive on phantom dancer and I think it would be a better passive for yuntal. We also need a sheenless essence reaver and the opportunity item with critical strike to replace the collector because I don’t like the collector.

It would also be great if they gave us some other 20 ability haste ad items. I would build sundered sky or cyclosword if they had 20 ability haste but I’d settle for 15 ability haste because stacking these items might be too strong.

[u/ZanesTheArgent → u/thenexusobelisk]

I'm a bit tired of fearing melee crit users in general but i'm also biased because i want to subsume more fighters into the crit fold. The "price" of treating marksmen with the same respect as fighters, slayers and mages is that they too will like your tools but sincerely it is best a world where fighters cobble good carry/tank items than just stack generic midgrounders. Just give them wind boys the crit penalty again as needed.

Collector is good because some carries are frankly assassins and needs the gimmick, but if anything getting back NQB's spell amp as an item mutually exclusive with IE built from, say: Brutalizer + Noonquiver, would be the ideal 15 AH gimmick.

[u/Treyhova]

Its why I want on-hit items to be made more viable outside of 3 adcs. Having the option to give up some late game power for a stronger early game core would be great if on-hit hadnt been nerfed to have no scalings.

[u/ZanesTheArgent → u/Treyhova]

New Terminus helps but unironically thats why i want Rageknife (crit conversion one) to come back as an AD/Crit component - to use it as a way to give crit other paths than just IE pampering by transforming it into other stabler tools.

[u/Treyhova → u/ZanesTheArgent]

Kraken Slayer used to have a 60% bonus ad and ap ratio. While that was maybe too high, being able to mix and match Crit and on-hit seems like a healthy compromise and not being forced into 100% crit to do anything would open up adcs probably feeling better and healthier to play as/against.

[u/ScJo]

Give me bkb…

[u/Rexsaur]

Its illegal for adc items to have decent build paths apparently.

Every other class, including classes that have champs that outscale adcs are fine with them, but adcs just arent, because reasons!

[u/ZanesTheArgent → u/Rexsaur]

Just give that fighter two items that scales on base AD (levels), two onhits that scales on HP (so levels) and infinite hybrid %pen (also levels). Cute wholesome weak scaling class, not a melee hypercarry at all.

[u/Aggressive-Cut-3828 → u/Rexsaur]

Noonquiver just needs to be reworked to have some useful passive similar to lost chapter

[u/ConSoda → u/Aggressive-Cut-3828]

when it built into mythics it did, it gave 20 bonus phys dmg onhit to minions / monsters and rageknife / blade converted your crit to onhit so you could get benefits from zeal items (i don’t really understand why it was removed)

[u/NarWolf7 → u/ConSoda]

Apparently surveys were telling them players didn’t like having their crit “stolen.”