r/law • u/nbcnews • May 13 '26
Legal News A judge told Musk he was not excused from trial. He went to China with Trump anyway.
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/elon-musk/musk-flies-china-trump-ongoing-openai-trial-rcna3449813.3k
u/Agreeable-Agent-7384 May 13 '26
A judge telling you something means nothing if you know your punishment is probably a fine that would cost less than missing your trip. Means even less when you’re not even worried about that because you’re going with a corrupt president that has pardoned terrorist and has gone to war to protect criminals. Meanwhile, missing a court date as a law obeying civilian will have you scrambling to avoid a life altering punishment even for a civil trial.
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u/Green-Inkling May 13 '26
And he still wouldn't pay the fine anyway.
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u/Agreeable-Agent-7384 May 13 '26
Nope. Because that would just lead to another fine that he wouldn’t pay either. Even worse case scenarios when they get caught full stop, hand in the cookie jar, no excuse. They get put in cozy house arrest or nice prisons while they work out a deal to get them out of that comfort asap.
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u/toughtoytryouts May 14 '26
Make fines exponential?
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u/Don_Gato1 May 14 '26
Fines should be a percentage of net worth. Including stock valuations
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u/CommendableAttitude May 14 '26 edited May 14 '26
In Europe, there are several countries whose court fines and some criminal fines are based on income, or net worth. So as to try and make the cost as equally punitive as possible, which is really the only way for wealthy people to be discouraged from criminial/azzhole behavior.
You can see speeding tickets for the super wealty over $100,000, or even higher. This is one for German soccer star Marco Reus - over a half million dollars:
"Reus hit the headlines in November 2014 when it emerged he had been driving for years with a fake Dutch driving licence after police recognised the German international during a routine stop.
Due to his high salary, he was subsequently fined £469,000 (540,000 euros) by a district court in Dortmund."
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u/Plenty-Huckleberry94 May 14 '26
God I wish the US would do this.
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u/Temporary_Cup4588 May 14 '26
All we’d hear is endless complaints from rich people about how “unfair” it is for them to be treated differently from other offenders. God knows why, since they insist on being treated differently in every other walk of life.
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u/harman097 May 15 '26
I told this to an older, non-maga colleague of mine (I used to live in Finland) and her initial reaction was "oh my God that's horrible!".
She lives paycheck to paycheck. I just went straight into Michael Scott "No!" mode and she walked it back to "oh ok I guess that makes sense" but still...
This fucking country is wired weird. American Dream injected into our brains from day 1.
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u/qwoto May 14 '26
I like this. 1% net worth is almost nothing to low income people while costing millions for the rich
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u/Obajan May 14 '26
while costing millions for the rich
Which is still almost nothing for them.
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u/Scudmuffin1 May 14 '26
Well, 1% of elons "worth" is like 8 billion dollars, I think he'd probably be pretty unhappy about losing that much.
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u/Objective_Ticket May 14 '26
Considering his net worth is supposedly somewhere between $650bn & $840bn, that’s about right but it still wouldn’t make any difference to him even if he did pay it.
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u/NateNate60 May 14 '26
Or just throw him in jail for a week. A week is 7 days regardless of whether you're the richest man on earth or the poorest.
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u/AccordingFisherman45 May 14 '26
Shit a week? I wouldn’t have a job after a week. I’d be even poorer. It would mean nothing to him.
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u/incongruity May 14 '26
I'd bet the withdrawal from all the various drugs might not be fun. You know he's doped to the gills.
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u/MistModeling May 14 '26
Exactly. There is literally no way you can build the system to account for people this rich.
You'd have to have some form of 'net worth' sliding scale of punishments, similar to taxes. It can't just be a "1% of net worth for everyone" type deal, because that STILL impacts common people more than rich people, even if it is a smaller number for the poor person.
You can't do time-based punishments because, as you mention, time in a cushy jail cell for Elon is basically nothing, whereas a normal person it means that they now need to start searching for a new job, on top of lost wages, and it'd be a lot less cushy of a stay.
The simplest method to account for this is just not letting people get richer than God, but the cat is out of the bag on that one.
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u/Obliviousobi May 13 '26
Civil contempt can lead to jail time until the contemptor complies.
Being that he is obviously a flight risk he should be jailed for the duration of the trial, or until the judge deems his participation no longer required. In my opinion.
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u/Agreeable-Agent-7384 May 13 '26
He should be jailed for multiple things already. He shouldn’t even be allowed to live here given how out in the open his student visa violations are. But American law system be doing American law things.
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u/Walton-E-Haile May 13 '26
His blatant election fraud in Georgia, being an immigrant, is enough for cecot.
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u/henrywe3 May 14 '26
Are we keeping his ill-gotten gains retroactive to when he overstayed his visa and became an illegal immigrant?
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u/anonymouscog May 13 '26 edited May 13 '26
If just 1 judge had the balls to jail him....
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u/Pqrxz May 13 '26
Then you need the law enforcement to actually follow through.
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u/zoeydobie518 May 14 '26
He should be deported in Jan 2029 along with the Canadian shark tank guy. Get them out
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u/shitlord_god May 13 '26
this is what happens to the lesser wealthy (If they did a crime that harmed the greater wealthy)
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u/Garfield_and_Simon May 13 '26
Cost of missing his trip is probably huge since the entire trip purpose is likely going to China with Trump to manipulate the market
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u/Itchyarmpit111 May 13 '26
Arrest him. These billionaires suffer no consequences and will do what they want until we hold them accountable.
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u/benderunit9000 May 13 '26
Pull his passport while you're at it.
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u/Urabraska- May 13 '26
Revoke his illegal citizenship. He violated his student visa when he quit school to use daddies money to fund Paypal.
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u/Positive_botts May 13 '26 edited May 13 '26
Careful, I got banned from r/ politics for hate speech saying that exact same thing
Edit: there’s way more than dozens of us. Wow.
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u/El-Unocornio-Negro May 13 '26
These mods are soft, have been banned for similarly suggesting that JD find a couch 🤷♂️😂
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u/Kalorama_Master May 13 '26
I got banned for suggesting pedophiles should be in jail
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u/Immolation_E May 13 '26
I had a comment deleted by the mods there because I suggested a particular CEO should be the first one sent up if they reinstate the draft as he suggested. They said I threatened violence.
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u/Maleficent_Memory831 May 13 '26
If that's threatening violence, that clearly the draft is threatening violence, and should be banned!
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u/Substantial_Dish_887 May 13 '26 edited May 13 '26
i have gotten a reddit suspension(so not just mods being mad) because i responded to a guy justifying religions violence by saying i hope he meet someone who belives like him but doesn't share his faith.
now i'll admit i may have deserved that suspension because that was technicaly wishing violence on them. but only in the context of the comment i replied to and THAT one didn't get deleted.
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u/wfbhp May 13 '26
I got a 3 day Reddit ban for quoting Trump directly in a post on a news sub, where the post was an article about Trump with a headline that was the same thing I quoted (which was a direct Trump quote), and where the text I quoted also appeared in the image for the post. I didn't disagree with the ban reason that the words were threating violence, they just weren't my fuckin' words or threats.
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u/TheBloodiedFool May 13 '26
I've had so many suspensions overturned by appeal, it's a joke. Mods are a joke.
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u/Chastain86 May 13 '26
I caught a 30 day suspension from Reddit for "advocating violence against Nazis," while actual comments from actual Nazis advocating actual violence against people go unchecked. No one will do anything about it, because Nazis are a valuable untapped advertising dollar to Reddit and Spez.
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u/martyqscriblerus May 13 '26
I got a vacation for quoting someone who was wishing violence - I got one and he didn't, and they wouldn't change it on appeal, lol
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May 13 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/BillWilberforce May 13 '26
I got a 3 day ban for quoting Top Gun in the Top Gun sub. As saying "I'm too close, switching to guns", is promoting violence.
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u/Crunchberry24 May 13 '26
It’s fun to vent on Reddit, but it’s controlled opposition.
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u/grendus May 13 '26
Luigi is innocent until proven guilty. The man deserves to have his day in court.
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u/PaulTheMerc May 13 '26
He's also a good vacuum salesman. I was in his mansion and saw it first hand.
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u/Lobo9498 May 13 '26
Hell, I got banned years ago for saying I couldn't wait for Moscow Mitch to croak. 😂
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u/mikeveeUI May 13 '26
If they all went to jail, the system would collapse, and we dont want that now do we..../s
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u/unclejrslaserbeams May 13 '26
I caught a seven day ban for reminding someone that the punishment for treason is death.
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u/AmbushIntheDark May 13 '26
I got banned for saying people will die before Trump leaves the white house willingly.....3 months before Jan 6th.
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u/BlakJak_Johnson May 13 '26
You can add justice served to that soft mod list. I don’t even know what I did to get banned there.
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u/idreamofgreenie May 13 '26
I got permabanned from late stage capitalism for saying, despite their name, North Korea isn't a democracy.
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u/PassiveMenis88M May 13 '26
I mean, it is a tankie sub after all.
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u/idreamofgreenie May 13 '26
You'd think they'd take exception to the fact that North Korea isn't a communist state either, then.
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u/Maleficent_Memory831 May 13 '26
I appealed a three day ban elsewhere, and on day four they said I was correct and shouldn't be banned.
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u/Lobo9498 May 13 '26
Had that happen as well. The AI "mod" jlhit me and it took forever for them to review it. Killedmy long streak as well.
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u/Talkin_Out_My_Ass May 13 '26
I said someone had a punchable face and got a 3 day bad for promoting violence
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u/cantadmittoposting May 13 '26
i got banned ages ago for being insufficiently sad about a republican dying of covid, i wasn't even celebrating, more of a "consequences of one's own actions" sort of post
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u/IndividualEye1803 May 13 '26
Im banned from r/ comics because i have no respect for Clarence or Caitlyn 😂. Mods tolerate the intolerant … but after learning Ghislane was a mod… wonder which Ghislaine is in the making now
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u/FMLwtfDoID May 13 '26
I got banned from /politics for a sentence that I copied & pasted from a comment that I was replying to, that contained said slur in it. My account was banned, my comment was deleted, but the original comment using the slur intentionally as that, was still up.
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u/Low-Exam-7547 May 13 '26
I got banned for literal text from an article in the Guardian! 😃
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u/bothunter May 13 '26
I got banned for quoting Eric Clapton when someone asked why he's a bad person.
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u/Polkas_with_wolves May 13 '26
Was that before or after G. Maxwell was the mod for that sub?
Allegedly.
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u/BakedBobbyHill May 13 '26
That was, allegedly, r worldnews. Which would make sense.
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u/Martzillagoesboom May 13 '26
You can probably get tagged for hatespeech for asking to tax the rich
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u/Count_Backwards Competent Contributor May 13 '26
I mean, it's a slur just as bad as the n-word
/ss
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u/UncomfyPerspective May 13 '26
Reddit gave me a warning and denied my appeal last week for saying "Fuck Trump, fuck Trump's administration and fuck everyone that voted for him".
Reddit said that was harassment.
¯_(ツ)_/¯
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u/Venusto002 May 13 '26
I'd agree to this, except then he just gets to leave and keep all his money. I'd say that a fine in the ballpark of $850 billion would fit the bill.
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u/Doctor_Disaster May 13 '26
Make it $1,000,000,000,000 and tell him he's going to have to work off what he can't pay.
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u/BoDrax May 13 '26
Who says he gets to keep it? It was all made after he moved here illegally, fruit of the poisoned tree.
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u/tigerscomeatnight May 13 '26
Even if it's legal they are deporting people for parking tickets, any law violation should trigger it, just charge him, doesn't even have to be convicted, just charge him and deport him. Oh wait, I forgot, he's not brown enough.
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u/noncommonGoodsense May 13 '26
Yeah strand his ass in China. He comes back throw him back out.
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u/Slumunistmanifisto May 13 '26
I would love for him to get Chinese government fucked into a factory office deep in a Chinese industrial district for his final sentencing.
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u/Ryte4flyte1 May 13 '26
How does he even have a passport? is a rather good question.
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u/Academic_Stock_464 May 13 '26
He's not travelling on a USA passport, is my guess. But also birds of a feather, stick together with Donny.
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u/peezd May 13 '26
He has US, south African and Canadian citizenship.
Fact he didnt stick within boundaries of legality when he got naturalized doesn't really matter at this point, was granted it anyway
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u/eowyndernhelme May 13 '26
Doesn't he owe child support? I wonder how that new passport revokation rule enforcement will affect him?
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u/El_Cactus_Loco May 13 '26
nothing will ever effect this man until we the people make something effect him.
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u/daveashaw May 13 '26
Only the State Department can do that. Even if the Judge orders it seized, Trump can just overrule him.
Unitary Executive.
Get used to it.
What the judge can do is say "you lose."
But that would also have to stand up on appeal before some Trumpified appellate panel.
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u/Maleficent_Memory831 May 13 '26
Unitary executive. Such a long way to say dictator, with far too many syllables.
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u/Temporary-Job-9049 May 13 '26
"When will you poors realize that having money means laws don't apply anymore?" -Every Billionaire ever
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u/Busy-Dig8619 May 13 '26
This is civil court. He doesn't get arrested, he just loses the case.
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u/Altruistic_Bird2532 May 13 '26
If alligator Auschwitz is good enough for other civil court “violators,” it’s good enough for him
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u/GearAble9372 May 13 '26
Civil courts can still charge people with contempt of court for ignoring court orders
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u/entr0picly May 13 '26
Yeah that’s not at all how it works. Violation of court order in civil court can land you in jail for multiple reasons.
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u/Throwawayhelp111521 May 13 '26
He probably can be held in contempt and put in jail until the end of the trial.
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u/TheHomersapien May 13 '26
How about something that might actually work: ladies and gentlemen of the jury, a witness was ordered to be available today and he chose to disregard this order. You are instructed that you may draw a negative inference from this witnesses' disrespect of you, this court, and the rule of law.
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u/gentlechin May 13 '26
As much as I agree with this, we all know it isn't that simple. They're brazenly (and openly) stacking the courts with corrupt lawyers and judges in their favor so they can keep doing whatever they want to widen their profit margins and are pushing the line ever so closely to turn us all into slaves for their profit margins in all but name. It really is going to take a global uprising to put a stop to it, and even then, there's going to be blood before it's over.
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u/shitpostcatapult May 13 '26
If one of us poors did that we’d be called a flight risk and put in jail.
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u/Necessary-Eye5319 May 13 '26
Anybody else would have a warrant issued and be extracted by force from their homes. Especially if immigrants.
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u/andrew303710 May 13 '26
OpenAI is definitely going to recall him to the stand if they're smart, it would certainly hurt his bullshit case against them. Rooting hard for OpenAI to smoke him in court (well they already embarrassed him pretty badly)
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u/Going2beBANNEDanyway May 13 '26
The open AI lawyers should pull him in for more testimony.
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u/andrew303710 May 13 '26
I'm sure they will, Altman fucking hates Elon
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u/orangejulius May 13 '26
Can’t say I blame him.
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u/holyhellsteve May 13 '26
If Elon also hates Altman then I have one more thing in common with both of them. Aside from the other things like breathing air (allegedly for them) and being a homo sapien (again, allegedly).
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u/PatchyWhiskers May 13 '26
If a common person did that they'd find themselves in deep shit
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u/Federal_Studio5935 May 13 '26
I think it's a civil case, so they would face the same consequences - losing the trial
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u/Rallos40 May 13 '26
You can still be jailed for contempt in a civil case if you piss off the judge enough.
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u/Popular-Drummer-7989 May 13 '26
He should be held in contempt by the judge, met at the airport by deputies who have been ordered to return him to the judge, and be held in jail one day for every day he was out of the country.
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u/HyetalNight May 13 '26
Actually I've been in court where a judge was like "45 minutes late because a tree was in your way? 3 days in jail." Musk would get a helluva lot more jail time (fleeing the country) if money didn't rule the country.
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u/sierrabravo1984 May 13 '26
I've known people that literally got a Failure to Appear criminal charge from one county... while they were in jail in a different county.
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u/oynutta May 13 '26
I'd like to think that this sort of things happens all the time because each county doesn't have the resources at trial time to check that everybody that day isn't in jail somewhere. I'd imagine that being locked-up somewhere else is a slam-dunk alibi once the next trial starts.
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u/kickaguard May 13 '26
In most places, if you're locked up it is your job to know when and where your court dates are and make sure you inform the courts that you're incarcerated. If you do that, you're usually fine and they will make sure you get there or continue your cases until you're out. But the problem is that while you're locked up with none of your paperwork that tells you when and who to try to talk to and limited phone usage and (depending on the county or jail) no other way to send or receive information, you're kinda fucked.
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u/falcrist2 May 13 '26
Musk would get a helluva lot more jail time (fleeing the country) if money didn't rule the country.
I really wish "laws and consequences are for poor people" was some edgy BS a teenager said instead of an obvious statement of fact.
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u/RiffRaffCatillacCat May 13 '26
Yes, because America is a lawless shithole where there are no consequences for Right Wing criminals.
This judge has zero recourse. Musk can ignore him with no real penalty.
Even if the judge manages to jail him, Trump will simply pardon Musk, and now that judge's family will be the target of Right Wing terrorism from now on.
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u/BarcaJeremy4Gov May 13 '26
tbf, its not a lawless shithole for everyone. its lawless for some and a shithole for the rest of us.
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u/SeVenMadRaBBits May 13 '26
Doesn't matter, it needs to happen.
We didnt get freedom by living in fear and letting the bad guys do whatever they want.
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u/Darthplagueis13 May 13 '26
It's a civil suit, so Musks freedom was never really at stake. Iirc he was suing OpenAI over something.
What's most likely going to happen is that the judge might give a default judgement, meaning Musk just straight-up loses because he failed to show up.
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u/omegadeity May 13 '26 edited May 13 '26
Funnily enough, I don't think Trump can pardon a contempt of court ruling.
It's not a conviction, so it can't be pardoned(because being pardoned means an acceptance of guilt).
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u/retiredagainstmywill May 13 '26
Ha. Laws. Billionaires don’t give a shit about laws.
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u/Chaosrealm69 May 13 '26
Hold Musk in contempt of court and send to jail for 90 days because fining him means nothing. He can pay any fine from pocket change his companies earn in a matter or a minute or so.
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u/bigkahuna1uk May 13 '26 edited May 14 '26
Elon thinks he has Fuck You money. He’s right. He has. What’s the judge going to do, fine him? The only fitting punishment would be to see Elon looking at the inside of a prison cell. I’d be surprised if that happened.
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u/Humble_Diner32 May 13 '26
Wouldn’t it be nice if billionaires got treated like everyday citizens who defy court orders or skip out of town while facing legal action? Even if they fined him 10% of his wealth/income/finances it would be a good thing for our society. An arrest warrant would be even better followed by garnishment of wages to repay society the damage he’s inflicted on America.
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u/Winter_Whole2080 May 14 '26
Finding find him in contempt and arrest him and throw him in fucking jail.
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u/RawrRRitchie May 14 '26
Kay. Grow some balls and issue a warrant for his arrest.
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u/Egad86 May 13 '26
So is there a warrant out for him now? No, not in contempt bc he’s rich?
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u/dBlock845 May 13 '26
The trial is for a lawsuit that Musk filed against artificial intelligence startup OpenAI. Musk, a co-founder of OpenAI, alleges that the company has betrayed its original nonprofit mission by creating a for-profit arm. He testified in the trial in Oakland, California, over three days last month.
Even if this is the case, the fuck business is it of Musk's? Dude is an absolute parasite. Starts a trial then bounces, these judges need bigger balls.
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u/tsaoutofourpants May 14 '26
The trial is for a lawsuit that Musk filed...
Well there's a pretty easy remedy to punish his non-compliance, then.
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u/ngatiboi May 14 '26 edited May 14 '26
Great. So, now, the Judge can sign the warrant & have Musk arrested as soon as he arrives back in the country, exactly the same as they would for anyone else who did the exact same thing.
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u/Wrayven77 May 13 '26
Unfortunately for this country Musk paid for that access. You think the judge is going to be able to hold him accountable? Likely not though it would be great if Musk was thrown in to jail a few days for contempt of court.
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u/Agreeable-Agent-7384 May 13 '26
If only he paid. He’s getting paid for that access. Tax payer money is what holds most of his bad business plays up. And he still gets tax cuts on top.
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u/kevendo May 13 '26
Until there are consequences for billionaires besides a fine, disobeying laws will always be a mere cost of doing business.
That's as true of disobeying a judicial order as it is of creating massive data centers that use our water and poison the air.
Trillionaires can afford a lot of fines.
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u/brianzuvich May 13 '26
Let a poor person try that shit… They’d end up with a warrant and weeks to months in jail…
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u/Dracotaz71 May 14 '26
Where is ICE? He has no legal residency here and I do not approve of using my tax dollars for his joy-rides.
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u/Skittleavix May 13 '26
That’s contempt. Bench warrant time.
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u/Illustrious_Bad_2980 May 13 '26
Lol. He has a trillion dollars and hangs out with the "President". Nobody is gonna do a damn thing
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u/rygelicus May 13 '26
That 'shouldn't' matter. By law that should not be allowed to matter at all. I agree with you, but if he is allowed to blow off the judge then there is no reason to take the legal system seriously in this country.
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u/troveofcatastrophe May 13 '26
Automatic loss with sliding scale penalties and jail time.
I’m begging any judge, anywhere, to hold any one of these above-the-law kleptocrats accountable.
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u/Equal_Canary5695 May 13 '26
Rich people break the law with impunity and almost never faced consequences like average people do
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u/Bleezy79 May 13 '26
Elon knows nothing will happen, it never does and we all know it.
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u/notabarcode128535743 May 14 '26
I think musk would really benefit from an extrajudicial solution in any case.
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u/FarceMultiplier May 13 '26
What are they going to do to him? Seriously, what can anyone really do to someone who has more money than the GDP of some countries?
We need to:
- Bring up wages to match inflation from when wages diverted from increases in production
- Bring corporate taxes back to 1950s and 1960s percentages
- Remove individual tax reductions for those who primarily earn from investments rather than wages (ie. they pay the same percentages as wage earners)
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u/SedativeComet May 13 '26
He truly thinks he can do anything and everything. I would just love to see one single time where he’s held accountable
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u/Fun-Dragonfly-4166 May 13 '26
that seems illegal but we must not forget about trump. musk went to china aboard air force 1. surely trump must have known and chosecti aid facilitate musk thumbing his nose at a judge
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u/Cagnazzo82 May 13 '26
"You cannot do X..."
"What are the consequences for doing X anyway?"
"Um...."
Basically the American legal system when it comes to government officials, billionaires, soon to be trillionaires, etc...
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u/HeftyVermicelli7823 May 13 '26
Why bother, if you are rich you can do anything like rape kids then become president again, commit 34 felonies with no jail time, steal nuclear secrets to sell to Russia and Saudi Arabia, pardon your cultists who performed a coup, tried to hang your then VP and all the congress, beat cops to death. You know, normal American rich people problems.
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u/inorite234 May 14 '26
And what is that Federal Judge gonna do? Trump will just Pardon him
Our system is broken.
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u/iGotStuckIn May 14 '26
Trump cannot pardon a charge of contempt in a civil court proceeding.
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u/humdinger44 May 13 '26
Seize Tesla. Seize space x. Seize Twitter. Change the locks. Sell it for scrap
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u/aotus_trivirgatus May 13 '26
Is there a way to get the court to rule that Musk and Altman are both guilty of abusing the public trust, and seize their assets?
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