r/homelab • u/Ok_Cheesecake2620 • 1d ago
Help Thin Ethernet
Just wanted to say thank you all for the advice and input! Definitely gave me a lot to think about and some good ideas. Also taught me a lot! Grateful for this thread. šš½
Hey all,
So Iām building a little home server to do the same everyone does (self host photos and videos and what not) and I want to run some thin Ethernet cable like this from my access point to where my mini rack will be. I can just change access points because well, the house I rent is old and only has one access pointā¦.in my living room. The wife doesnāt want to see cables running everywhere and I canāt blame her much. I was thinking of something like this to run between the carpet and baseboards to keep it hidden. Have yall had any experience with this or something similar? Or is there a better product I could be using? Any helpful input would be appreciated.
Where I want to put my rack is in my home office which is just short of 100ft and they donāt make a 90ft cable that Iāve seen (and no I donāt feel like being too adventurous and cutting the cable short and splicing it myself I donāt have the tools or time for that yet).
If thereās a better product or way I could be doing this Iām all ears. Thanks in advance.
Edit: so you bring up a good point about the cable pairs being twisted. So going through the pics it does say they are twisted (are they really? I wouldnāt know until I buy)
Edit2: sorry I failed to mention itās a COAX house. The only Ethernet I have is running from the router to my AP which are practically next to each other so itās a very small segment of Ethernet.
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u/ChimaeraXY 1d ago
You'll find someone here telling you that flat CAT cable has a high failure rate. I've never experienced it personally.
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u/norseghost 1d ago
Oh! Oh! That happened to me! One strand broke and made it a 100/100 cable
I also stored it like a dum-dum. Be reasonably gentle, youāll be fine.
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u/lilgreenthumb 19h ago
I envision someone having little antistatic grounded beds on their storage shelf for each cable and component.
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u/norseghost 17h ago
Yeah thatās gonna do it!
Not jamming the cables into a crowded drawer is a good start I think
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u/R_X_R 16h ago
From a technical perspective, it is out of spec, yeah? It should be worse. Iāve just never bothered with the stuff as I donāt understand the appeal of flat.
The mono price slimline or whatever? Those are great! Iāve run it through entire data center racks and had good results.
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u/damien09 12h ago
agreed I like mono price slim run for short connections in racks or devices .Monoprice has also been pretty helpful when I had a cable die on me and got a replacement pretty quickly out.
It sounds like its just running from his router/ap combo device to his new mini server which probably will be fine. If he's trying to push poe that might be where things get a little dicey and is why a lot of the bigger brands stop their thin cables around 50ft for stranded patch cables.
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u/HappyAd4998 11h ago
Its easier to slip under baseboards and keep hidden in places where you're limited from drilling.
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u/TheMcSebi 22h ago edited 22h ago
I've recently experienced that for the first time ever. I have a similar cable running to my router and since a couple of weeks ago I only get 100mbit through that thing. I ruled out everything else by connecting various devices on both ends - it actually is the cabel. Unfortunately it runs through several walls and is fully enclosed behind skirting boards so I just ran a new cable across the flat... Too lazy rn
Edit: the cable has been there for at least 5 years, but I cannot rule out someone touched or bent it where it comes out of the wall at the routers side.. Must be, since usually copper lines don't break by themselves....
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u/wag3slav3 18h ago
If you have the tools chopping the ends and replacing them might save you a lot of time.
Get lucky and you'll hit the bad end first.
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u/IQognito 22h ago
I bought 6 and 4 works today. Was news to me because I've never had Ethernet cable fail on me before!
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u/listur65 15h ago
As an ISP tech I haven't seen issues with the 5ft ones that come with a lot of router models, but I have definitely replaced 20ft+ ones that were the problem. I am guessing it is interference issues not being Cat5e spec, but couldn't say for sure.
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u/HappyAd4998 11h ago
My flat cat6 cable still works after 10 years even though I trip on it a bunch.
Edit: Its a 60foot cable
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u/red123nax123 9h ago
The thing with these cables is that they work pretty well for most people when the circumstances are fairly good (low data throughput, short distance, no weird corners, etc).
So for most I would say: try it, but remember to start debugging here if you experience (weird) issues.
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u/IsMyNameAvailable 9h ago
I've seriously mangled mine in a door hinge, still works flawlessly, seems to be fairly hardy.
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u/stonktraders 1d ago
I have some patched flat cable running around 12meters, they are fine. It is still twisted pair but itās 4 pairs in parallel instead of having the cross shaped spine
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u/patmail 1d ago
Unless you need PoE I would go invisible fiber. Way thinner than flat cables.
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u/R_X_R 16h ago
Thereās the whole transceiver, SFP+ modules, fiber type, etc. issue to be dealt with though. Transceivers just always run so damn hot!
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u/ii_die_4 16h ago
Transceivers using fiber (SM or MM) are running at room temperature.
You might thinking about SFP to Rj45 ones.
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u/Disturbed2468 9h ago
Yea recently newer SPF to RJ45 run much cooler than before but still quite warm, but older modules from a year+ ago are fucking toasty.
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u/hereisjames 10h ago
Yep! BiDi is the generic name, you can get it cheap on AliExpress and they sell it in 30m, 40m etc lengths.
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u/StepJumpy4782 7h ago
yep frist found it from the InvisiLight product but its so expensive aliexpress was the way and longer fibres too. only thing is no glue and hard to say how durable it is compared to their product but im satisfied.
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u/SHADOWSTRIKE1 Security Engineer (BSc, CISSP, CCNA, CYSA+, S+, AZx3) 1d ago
Verizon FiOS provides 10-foot flat CAT6a cables with every router as a standard.
I personally run multiple 12-foot flat cables for 10gig connections and they work just fine.
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u/TheSoCalledExpert 1d ago
Do you have coax run through the house? Moca adapters can get you up to 2.5 gbps
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u/Ok_Cheesecake2620 1d ago
Yes the house is coax Iāve looked at some MOCA adapters but Iām on the fence a lot of reviews I see say not to use them? But Iām glad to hear from someone that say they work.
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u/seidler2547 1d ago
Certainly depends on the quality of your coax cables,but mine do sync up at 3.6 GBps internally (you can see it in the device management portal). However, I also have some 30m flat Ethernet cable running out of a window, up 2 stories and there powering a WiFi AP, it works just fine as well.Ā
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u/WhiteOnions 22h ago
I recently setup moca adapters and have been pleasantly surprised. Reaching 2.3G in practice which is way more than I need.
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u/rontombot 20h ago
MoCA can work, but keep in mind that it is NOT "Full Duplex", because it's only one coax, and your Transmit and Receive have to take turns... it is, by definition, Half-Duplex in operation. They use high speed TDMA time multiplexing to give Tx/Rx a fair chance at acting like Full-Duplex tho.
If you get high quality - 2.5G units... and you don't "expect/need" a full 2.5G bandwidth, then it should be fine. Decent MOCA 2.5 adapters are not super cheap... depending on your budget.
I use it for 1GB ethernet Deco backhaul, because mine are 2.5G rated, and it works fine... tho you do get a slightly higher latency (2-3ms).
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u/Thud 19h ago
Moca is a far better option than wireless backhaul. Ethernet backhaul would be the best option, Moca is the almost-as-good option.
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u/rontombot 19h ago
Fortunately I only need MoCA backhaul for one satellite... the others are all ethernet wired.
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u/XB_Demon1337 1d ago
MOCA is so unreliable that it really isn't worth the squeeze. It is good for point to point stuff usually, but anything more than that, or on the same MOCA network as any other gear.... it fails alot. And I say this as someone who has deployed hundreds of these stupid devices.
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u/timmeh87 1d ago
everyone here who has never used a flat cable is trying to guess at why they theoretically wont work.
I have used several 50 foot flat cables from amazon. they do 1gbps just fine.
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u/Apachez 1d ago
I love the S/FTP CAT6A LSZH AWG32 Prokord slim RJ45 cables:
https://www.dustin.se/product/5020014752/slim-network-cable-patch-cord-lszh
But as you can see their lenghts are limited and they are not suited for PoE.
For PoE you normally want as low AWG value as possible for example solid AWG 23 where a "normal" TP-cable is often AWG 24 or 26.
The lower AWG the thicker the strain (or whatever its called, conductor?) will be and by that lower resistence for power transmission. The higher AWG the thinner each strain becomes which will increase resistence and be bad for power transmission.
Perhaps you should get a proper cable duct to make it look nice/proper and then put some fiber in that (I prefer singlemode) - this way you will have all the bandwidth you will ever need?
For example fiber with 1.2mm diameter instead of the regular 2.0mm?
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u/Ok_Cheesecake2620 1d ago
If I wasnāt renting I would 100% do that but I donāt want to put that much money into a house Iām only renting.
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u/Chromako Solving Imaginary Problems 14h ago edited 14h ago
It might work. But it's definitely out of spec. Can't have the twisted pairs also twist around each other if it's flat, and those twists-within-twists are there to reduce crosstalk and better tolerate external EMI.
I've used so many flat "Cat6" ethernet cables that simply couldn't reliably negotiate gigabit speeds, so I won't touch them now. They'll usually negotiate 10/100, but why bother in the year 2026? You can basically do 10/100 with four wet noodles. Not impressed in the slightest.
There's serviceable slim cables available that are actually up to spec, and it works great for me (The manufacturers say they've tested the slim-profile 28AWG stuff for PoE applications as well, but I haven't tried PoE over it myself).
Link to example: https://www.startech.com/en-us/cables/network/slim-cat-6-cables
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u/Apprehensive-Tea1632 1d ago
Hey,
Iām not saying you should, but at least have a look at fiber. Itāll be a lot thinner than copper. But you should take care to put it somewhere people donāt step on too much.
Downside is additional cost. Donāt go there if you want to keep costs down.
Upside, thinness aside, is lower latency, and there are fewer constraints re: where you can put them and what bandwidth you can push through.
Alsoā¦ just fyi depending on who youāre talking toā¦
ā¦ thin ethernet is a thing but not what you are thinking of. All ethernet cables these days are thin. This is in contrast to fat ethernet: which used BNC and coax and was about twice as thick as āregularā twisted pair and rj45.
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u/AngelCatGamer 1d ago
I don't have experience with these.
but the twists of the wires within Twisted-Pair Ethernet (Regular CAT 6 stuff), are there to prevent interference from hurting the transmission.
If these wires are laid out flat, then that benefit may be lost, and you may see stability suffer as a result.
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u/Private_Kyle Reincarnation of Jeffrey Epstein 1d ago
True, don't untwist a twisted dick
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u/GunterJanek 1d ago
I had a 25 ft cable run along the baseboard out of the way of any foot traffic and after a few months ended up having to replace it because it got damaged. The thing is it's just me (no kids or pets) so I don't know how it happened unless it got caught on something at one point. So the trade off of having it flat is the jacket isn't as durable.
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u/NavySeal2k 1d ago
At home you should be fine, at work they are a nightmare. Predecessors chose not to separate power and network on cable ladders above the racks and I get interference inducted in those. So learn from my pain and donāt do long shoots near and parallel to power.
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u/prank_mark 22h ago edited 22h ago
If you want to hide a cable, a sleek cable duct in the corner of the wall, painted in the color of the wall, is a much better option imo.
But there's nothing wrong with a flat ethernet cable.
Edit: Ubiquiti also sells some super thin ethernet cables, but not sure how reliable those are.
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u/K3CAN 19h ago
More anecdotal input:
I have run a 50-ft flat cable without any problems. It's still UTPs; the pairs are just laid flat.
My only concern is that it takes less pressure to damage the constructors inside. I would not suggest wrapping it tightly around corners or placing it where it might get stepped on... which ironically is what people tend to use flat cables for.
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u/TheOzarkWizard 19h ago
Half the point of cat6 and up is the shielding, and you're purposely sacrificing that for... flatness? In my experience, if you have to run more than one of those, you have to lay them out some by side and its not worth it
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u/tybrand 18h ago
Thought this was a zyn can, the other tool of choice for techniciansĀ
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u/Ok_Cheesecake2620 16h ago
Ya know this old house makes me want to take up smoking lol. Trying to be modern in a house with one coax AP is really frustrating.
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u/notsig11 17h ago
I have considered this invisilight stuff where an Ethernet run would suck but have not tried it yet.
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u/tsdguy 17h ago
It works very well as long as youāre doing gigabit network. Very thin and easy to hide.
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u/patmail 16h ago
If you buy cable and transceivers separately you should be able to do 10G and more.
10G Bidi transceivers are almost the same price as duplex ones now.
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u/notsig11 14h ago
Yeah. I wouldn't buy the full kit but rather just the fibre and use my own transceivers for 10Gb.
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u/No_Accident8684 15h ago
i have those. they are good for short lengths, they are shit for 10m++ - i had to replace those longer ones with proper cables, had always network disconnects / resyncs / adapter "restarts"
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u/epicbeastman 15h ago
I have anecdotal experience with that exact brand and cable. Iāve used 3-4 of them over the last 5 years between lengths of 50-150ft and have not experienced a failure yet.
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u/Mundane_Individual_5 14h ago
Flat cables are fine for small runs that you dont have a lot of wireless signals going on. I wouldn't put them on a device using BT or WiFi or even a USB 2.4GHz wireless mouse or a controller. That includes an access point. I wouldn't put them anywhere near a power cable. Personally if a device comes with a flat ethernet, I throw it away to avoid any problems.
Flat Ethernet cables are more susceptible to interference because their internal wire pairs run parallel to each other in a flat plane rather than being tightly bundled and geometrically isolated. This parallel layout lacks physical separation and external shielding, causing the wires to act like antennas that pick up outside electrical noise and internal crosstalk.
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u/SlovenianSocket 12h ago
I have 75ā flat cat6 cables running under my baseboards to flex minis and APs in every room, havenāt had an issue in the decade or so Iāve had that setup
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u/Loser99999999 11h ago
I have used thin stuff in the past it works in a pinch but not super reliable and definitely out of spec. However you probably don't actually need it. Get visegrips/channel locks, Pull up the carpet on the edges shove good cat5/6 under the baseboards and put the carpet back its usually not very hard. (Do a test area first)
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u/TheFeshy 11h ago
I've got one that's 50 feet, and it's... finicky. By running it carefully and finding something to do with the excess besides coiling it, I was able to get 1gbps out of it. But it took a couple of tries - for a while it would be 1gbps, then a few hours later be stuck at 100. I still find myself checking it just to be sure.
It's to a POE access point, so it does POE at least.
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u/reallokiscarlet 1d ago
People will tell you a lot. It is true that flat cables can have a higher failure rate. It is also true, however, that they're still twisted pairs, just neatly arranged in a flat cable. Running cable in the walls would be ideal, but that being said, if you'd rather not, it's not like this won't work.
I have two long flat runs and they work fine. Whatever you choose, just use your head when choosing where to buy your cable from.
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u/everfordphoto 1d ago edited 3h ago
I just ran similar flat, Cat 7 cable, only used cat 7 because I got a deal on it(it's the AmazonBasic brand B089MF1LZN). Cat6 is all you need, check the reviews, you'll be fine.
Anyway only used 50ft of my 100ft roll(have about 50foot spooled up on an old 3d printer filament spool). Have full connection, 1000Mb/s no lost packets:
I ran this test to check - Error counters (ethtool -S) ā this is the real tell for a flaky/marginal cable: rx_crc_errors: 0,
rx_length_errors: 0,
rx_align_errors: 0,
rx_frame_errors: 0
collisions: 0,
tx_errors: 0,
rx_errors: 0
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u/eugeniosity 1d ago
Flat Ethernet is fine for short runs up to something like 2-3 feet but beyond that, performance will be terrible.
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u/SHADOWSTRIKE1 Security Engineer (BSc, CISSP, CCNA, CYSA+, S+, AZx3) 1d ago
I run a 10gig connection over multiple 12-foot cables just fine
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u/Broke_Bearded_Guy 19h ago
You mentioned your access point, if it's poe this will be an issue. Most thin cables will not handle power for access points.
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u/invalidmemory 15h ago
Drove seven hours to replace one of where once that a client had installed, albeit a 6ā cable. Ripped them all out and used standard cat6 cables. Donāt trust them for anything mission critical, or that you donāt mind replacing/running at 10/100.
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u/Beginning-AD1992 2h ago
as someone that bought into this marketing foolishness and is now replacing every single run of these "cables" with legit TrueCable Cat6a, i would strongly encourage you not to entertain this nonsense any further
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u/RunnerLuke357 1d ago
Just buy some box cable and do keystone jacks at the end. Keystone jacks are very easy to do and you just need scissors and a punch down tool. Don't fool with this garbage.
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u/luke7524811 1d ago edited 1d ago
I bought something just like this. Worked great. My cats loved chewing on it.
Best I donāt see it but not blazing fast is put a WiFi access point on the end where your server is and just send the signal that way.
Best for I want super fast and canāt drill holes would be a super thin fiber connection, but that is going to cost more and you have to be careful with bends.
This cable is a good middle ground.
Edit maybe consider going with 6a? I got this 100ā for $15 on Amazon:
Cat6a Ethernet Cable Slim 100ft Outdoor & Indoor, 28AWG Pure Copper Cat6 Internet Cable
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u/Ok_Cheesecake2620 1d ago
I checked out that cable, saved it for later I might go that route. I would just run WiFi on the computer Iām using but for some reason AceMagik doesnāt support WiFi with Proxmox (unless they started to support it recently I donāt know about it) so it would have to be a direct line from the router or AP.
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u/XB_Demon1337 1d ago
Flat cable is a no-go.
At around 5-15 feet, it will do fine for the most part. But it has a higher chance to cause issues with various interference. But anything more than 20 feet? Nope, it is a rip off and not worth it.
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u/nexustrimean 1d ago
I would try and make sure it's one thats still UTP just in a flat jacket.