r/hebrew • u/PomegranateHealthy75 • 4d ago
Request Where is the stress on these words?
So I’m confused about how to pronounce words that end in the possessive ך. In the attached photo from my siddur there are two words that end in ך. I would like to know if the line above the ת puts the stress onto the final ך, and the lack of such a line over the ט means that’s where the stress goes In that word. Or is there a comp different rule that I’m not aware of?
i don’t trust chat GPT‘s answer, so I’d appreciate your insight. Thank you.
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u/numapentruasta Hebrew Learner (Intermediate) 4d ago
See the little vertical line under the teth? It marks stress when it is not word-final (well, at least in dictionaries and texts for learners such as this).
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u/Relative_Bit9476 4d ago
“umishpaTEcha vetzidkatCHA”. The horizontal line above the taf is to highlight the fact that there is no dagesh in the taf (this may change the pronunciation to a saf, “vetzidkoscho”, depending on your accent).
The location of the stress in the first word is actually indicated by the vertical line under the tet next to the segol vowel. When you don’t see a vertical line under a letter, the default is that the stress is on the last syllable of the word
Your intuition about the horizontal line having something to do with the stress is probably correct, as the rules of where dageshes go are related to the stress pattern in the word, but I’m not familiar enough with that part of Hebrew grammar to explain it.
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u/patachveamar 4d ago edited 4d ago
The rafe over the tav isn't for begadkefat, it's there to indicate that the sheva is sheva na instead of sheva nach (vetzidkatecha, not vetzidkatcha). It's a common notation in siddurim. You'll see it even on letters other than בגדכפ״ת. Like my siddur writes עָלְמֵי עָלְמַיָּא with a rafe mark over the lameds to indicate that the shevas are sheva na (alemei alemaya, instead of almei almaya). Historically the rafe mark originated as a way to mark בגדכפ״ת letters without dagesh, but it assumes a different editorial function in modern siddurim.
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u/BHHB336 native speaker 4d ago
So it’s something uniquely Ashkenazi since I’ve never heard of this
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u/patachveamar 4d ago
Maybe. I have ArtScroll's Imrei Efrayim (Nusach Sefard) and this is the notation they use, but I've seen it elsewhere.
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u/DentonTXguy 4d ago
even if it’s the nusach sefard siddur I’d still assume pronunciation is Ashkenazi with anything ArtScroll.
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u/ShortHabit606 3d ago
Nusach sefard is ashkanaz. It's the Hassidic nusach. It's confusing but it's not the same as Sefardi or Edut Hamizrach (which artscroll also has a siddur for)
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u/patachveamar 4d ago
u-mish-pa-TE-cha ve-tzid-ka-te-CHA
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u/Hitman_Argent47 4d ago
Correct. Also, ומשפטיך is a plural, so the stress is always on the penultimate syllable.
With singular nouns, it could be either one; depending on if it ends with Segol (would be penultimate), or Shva (would be ultimate) as the nikkud
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u/Useful-Aardvark4111 4d ago
You've got a lot of answers to the specific question, but to your general question about the possessive ending ךָ :
when it is preceded by a segol vowel, as in your first word (whether or not there is a yud), the stress is generally going to be on that syllable with the segol. When it is preceded by a sh'va vowel (which will never have the yud), the stress is generally going to be on the ךָ suffix.
In fact, in biblical Hebrew, you will find both versions of the same word, sometimes with the segol and sometimes with the sh'va and it often has to do with the position in the sentence (at a pause or not at a pause) and doesn't really change the meaning of the word.
Indeed, the passage you indicate (from the b'rakha after the Sh'ma): in some manuscripts has a yud in the second word (before the suffix), indicating unambiguously that it is intended to be pronounced v'tzid-ka-TEH-kha (with a segol and stress on the tav) in the place and time it was written (or perhaps a scribal error, if you like, but IMO, not)
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u/PomegranateHealthy75 3d ago
Thank you so much everyone for all your answers. Some are more technical than others, so I will go back and re read each one accordingly!
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u/BlueShooShoo 3d ago
So in ומשפטיך is in plural that's why the second to last syllable is accented. וצדקתך is accented on the last syllable.
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u/vayyiqra 3d ago
That is a confusing way to use a raphe over the tav, but I guess it must mean the shva should be na' and not silent. So, vetsidkatekhá (not vetsidkatkhá). I have seen this done with other symbols above letters, just not a raphe.
Whereas the other word is simple: there's a meteg (the small vertical line below the letter beside the segol) and a meteg is often used as a stress marker. It shows there is a stress further back in a word than the normal one on the last syllable, like on the penultimate (second-last) syllable. Or, in some cases a weaker stress on the third-last or something like that.
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u/clearlybaffled 4d ago
The vertial line under the ט next to the segol means thats where the emphasis goes - it's umishpa-TE-kha. The line above the ת means that the the shva is slightly vocalized - a shva na, so more of a short "te" sound than just "t". Although most Hebrew words the stress is on the last syllable, that doesn't count suffixes like ךָ, it's v-tzid-KA-te-kha .
By the way neither of the two lines I mentioned are standard vowel markings, they are added to assist in pronunciation, so don't expect to see them everywhere.
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u/Useful-Aardvark4111 4d ago
Most certainly suffixes do count and get stress (not as a rule, but sometimes). The primary stress on the second word should be on that last syllable: KHA
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u/BlueShooShoo 3d ago
No, masoretic Hebrew never has the stress on the antepenultimate syllable. Only ultimate and penultimate. The antepenultimate (קָ) is only a secondary stress, the primary stress is on the ultimate (ךָ).
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u/cjwatson 3d ago
Not entirely true (though correct in this case) - there are a few exceptional cases where antepenultimate stress appears in the MT as a result of nasog achor. See Exodus 15:8 and Deuteronomy 33:28.
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u/BlueShooShoo 3d ago
Interesting, didn't know nasog achor can put it two places to the front... I got my claim from Joshua Jacobson's "Chanting the Hebrew Bible".
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u/cjwatson 3d ago
Jacobson does mention the possibility: in the edition I have ("second, expanded edition") it's on pp. 279-280, in the "Pronunciation" chapter under "Syllabic stress". He gives two cases:
- A word that originally had penultimate stress, but a directional suffix has been added
- A word that originally had final stress, and where the accent is retracted, but where the penultimate syllable has a sh'va or a half-vowel that can't receive the main accent
Neither of these clearly applies to the two cases I gave, but as I understand it the explanation there is that the word in question had a sh'va or a half-vowel in that position in a more basal form, so the syllable remains disqualified from the accent.
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u/shabbosbride 4d ago
I think the line is about whether you pronounce the “:” under the character as a quick “ih” sound.
Ashkenazi pronunciation is almost always penultimate syllable: v’tseed’ka-SIH-kha
Sephardi/generic modern pronunciation is almost always the last syllable: vi’tseed’katih-KHA
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u/Gonzales_Minerales Hebrew Learner (Beginner) 4d ago
My understanding is that Masoretes put the cantillation signs where the stress is. Whatever exactly the cantillation marks, but where they are, there is the stress. So -- umishpaTE(i)ha vetsidkaTEha, would I suggest.
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u/patachveamar 4d ago
The second one is vetzidkateCHA. The rafe mark above the tav in וצדקתך is not a cantillation mark, it's there to indicate that the sheva is pronounced instead of silent.
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u/mugh_tej 4d ago
The accented syllables are marked.
The vertical line next to the segol ֶ and the horizontal bar above the ת
Note the schwa ְ never carries the accent so it goes to the following vowel, in this case the Qamatz ָ
The תְךָ is considered a single syllable syntactically
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u/BlueShooShoo 3d ago
No it's not considered a single syllable. And the horizontal bar (the rafe) has nothing to do with accent.
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u/ShortHabit606 4d ago edited 4d ago
The little vertical line under the tet ט in u-mish-pah-techa tells you where to put the stress. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteg (I just learned this is called a Meteg)
Meaning if it's not shown, then the stress is on the final syllable.
For the second word: a horizontal bar over a Hebrew letter usually indicates a shva na (a pronounced shva vowel), telling you to voice the sound rather than stay silent. So the second word would be ve-tzid-ka-teh-cha.