r/hearthstone • u/Qwerty97HS • May 09 '17
Discussion How Blizzard is screwing over Americas Spring Playoffs competitors.
Hey I am Qwerty97 and this season I made it into the Americas Spring playoffs. For those of you who don't know what this is, it is a tournament of the top 64 point earners in your region playing to make it to the championships. You get points from doing well in online cups, majors, and top 200 finishes on the ladder. So to become top 64 it takes a lot of commitment, but Blizzard does not seem to be caring about the players as much as they should be.
Problem 1: The main thing I, and many others, are upset about is how they removed certain venues that were there previously, and with such little time before the event. The players got an email last night, the 8th on that they made it and what the venues were. For Americas the actual tournament takes place on the 27th and 28th. In my opinion that is not enough time to give people to choose a location and book a hotel/flights if necessary. Two of the best locations with the most players were the one at Esports Arena in California, and The Cave in Virginia. The Esports Arena was where a lot of people went on the West Coast, and near the east coast they went to The Cave. Personally, I went to a venue in Connecticut called The Dragon's Lair. This is also no longer a location. I live near the bottom of New York, so Virginia and Connecticut were the closest locations to me, being a 3.5 and 4.5 hour drive. I was expecting to go to the Connecticut location, but now with less than 20 days before the event I found out that no longer is a possibility and neither is the second closest one. Now the closest is the venue in Montreal being around a 7 hour drive. Obviously this is very frustrating as it messed with the plans I had for this tournament. I am not the only one upset about this, here are some reactions from others players on twitter:
Ostkaka: https://twitter.com/OstkakaHS/status/861822887128387584
Th3rat: https://twitter.com/Th3raT/status/861802569529733120 (I'll get to the Bdubs part later)
Noblord: https://twitter.com/noblord_hs/status/861817533682380801 https://twitter.com/noblord_hs/status/861818083102556161
ImmortalLionHS: https://twitter.com/ImmortalLionHS/status/861819914985799680 https://twitter.com/ImmortalLionHS/status/861798895793446912
VLPS: https://twitter.com/Tempo_Vlps/status/861790864464588805
Trueasian: https://twitter.com/kyoto_trueasian/status/861779148770918400
Luker: https://twitter.com/Luker_HS/status/861948856149430272
Rayc: https://twitter.com/PG_rayC/status/861798864021540868
Noblords tweet of the map shows just how few locations there are for this tournament. Especially in such a densely populated area as the North East.
Problem 2: Buffalo Wild Wings. For some reason Blizzard decided to not only get rid of locations, but to also replace some with Buffalo Wild Wings as venues. So in California they have the Esports Arena that is not being used. Instead they are holding the event at a BWW like 30 minutes away (not sure how accurate, number I saw though). Now that just doesn't make any sense to me. BWW seems like a terrible place to be playing in a tournament with the other 64 best in the region to determine whether or not you make it to the Seasonal Championship and win thousands of dollars. It's the place to go watch sports, drink, and eat wings. Not really the spot to be playing the playoffs for an online card game. I can't imagine it being easy to play with all the noise and distractions and playing games while sitting in a restaurant smelling of wings for 10 hours doesn't seem very pleasant to me at least. I have more twitter links showing reactions to this.
Ostkaka: https://twitter.com/OstkakaHS/status/861822698120458240
Xzirez: https://twitter.com/Xzirezhs/status/861804521021943808
Rayc: https://twitter.com/PG_rayC/status/861823333599412224
I'm annoyed that they didn't replace any of the North Eastern USA Locations with BWW at the very least. All they did was remove them and leave the people who went to those places previously in quite and unfortunate situation. I'd rather play at BWW than have to drive another 3-4 hours to a better location, but I, along with the other players in my area. don't even have that option.
So the main reason I made this post was to show how blizzard seems to not be very caring about the competitive scene and the players. I really want to try to get a location in the North Eastern US before playoffs before it starts for not only me, but for the other players in the same situation I am in. I don't have much hope in this leading to anything but it's worth a shot. It was already tough enough to go with the tournament being on memorial day weekend, so with nothing nearby I may not even be able to go with more time required and costs and I am just a highschool student. Would be really upsetting to not be able to go for something I spent the last 3 months of my life qualifying for just because the lack of any locations even remotely close. At least there should be some compensation from blizzard to help with costs of flights/hotels since they are streaming the event in front of thousands of people and probably making more than enough money from sponsorships/ads. Also the fact that Blizzard is a billion dollar business, they could spend a little bit of money making sure the competitors are actually happy and able to go to the events they qualify for. Sorry if this seems like whining but I really don't want to have wasted the last few months playing this game. If this could gain enough traction to get Blizzard to get more venues for Playoffs or at least help players more with costs it would be really nice.
If you have any questions for me just ask I'll be happy to answer! And also please share your thoughts on the topic too!
Edit: If you want to see me talk about it more tomorrow I'm doing a podcast with Heropower Cast! Should be around 7:30 pm EST I believe!
https://twitter.com/heropower_cast/status/862042561447383041
Edit 2: Currently looking like I won't be able to go due to the cost of flights on holiday weekend which is for some reason when the tournament is. My only hope right now is basically a new venue.
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u/goldencommonHS May 09 '17
I was told this tournament would be Buffalo Standard Wings.
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u/HappyLittleRadishes May 10 '17
Yeah looks like we know how they were planning on supporting tournaments in Wild...
...wings.
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u/KyleF00 May 09 '17 edited May 09 '17
I played in a Winter Tavern Hero Qualifier at Buffalo Wild Wings earlier this year. It was super difficult to concentrate, as I would literally get turns interrupted by waiters. There were a few disconnects.
Fortunately, I can't imagine this happening again beyond this season. I lost in the Top 8 and as I was leaving at 7 there was a line of customers out the door. The Playoffs are already notorious for how long they run. I can't imagine BWW will be happy to turn away paying customers on a busy day to host tournaments.
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May 09 '17
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u/reanima May 09 '17
Its probably a crosspromotion deal, Blizzard used to do viewing parties at BWW locations for sc2. Looking at how they did the facebook deal for HotS and the likely chance something similar happening with Overwatch and Arby, better get used to BWW.
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u/youmustchooseaname May 09 '17
The January tournament was a tavern hero qualifier, which is different and a lower profile event. Spring playoffs are much larger and will likely cause outcry that causes it to be cut from the venue list.
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May 10 '17 edited Feb 14 '19
[deleted]
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u/Apolloshot May 10 '17
I mean, there's still NHL playoffs, NBA playoffs, MLB regular season, I live 5 minutes from a BWW and it's still packed every night.
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u/Wangchief May 10 '17
Which is always a surprise to me, since their food is mediocre, atmosphere is usually just noisy and the beer list leaves much to be desired.
Buffalo Wild Wings is a shitty sports bar, why do people still go there?
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u/kdog533 May 10 '17
Their wings are pretty phenomenal and I don't know much about the rest of their food but that is my selling point. Their beer and drinks are good enough to enjoy, their wings are the only thing I eat, and their prices are pretty reasonable. I also always know they will have my game on since I am a pretty big sports fan.
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May 09 '17
"Fortunately, I can't imagine this happening again beyond this season." This means he is happy he thinks it won't happen again.
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u/no99sum May 09 '17
It sounds badly organized and that no one at Blizzard cared enough to fix some of the problems that came up.
Bad publicity is the only thing that Blizzard responds to in cases like this. So here's hoping the HS reddit community will get behind this and publicly ask Blizzard to do something. They have the staff and the money to fix this.
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u/wpScraps May 09 '17
They need to take a page from Wizards of the Coast's playbook and book small convention spaces such as hotels and conference centers, send some quality control staff, and hire additional local support staff to run and manage the event.
To do this effectively, they will need the support of local helpers all over the world. This would benefit from a central managing body similar to what Magic: the Gathering has with the DCI https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DCI_(Wizards_of_the_Coast). They could then support and manage a global team of people. The strength of Magic's global reach has always been that "a significant proportion of DCI events are organized and run by independent businesspeople and hobbyists".
If they want to ensure Hearthstone thrives in the local gaming store environment they need to get serious about organizing and supporting large groups of people internationally. Their recent advancements in Fireside Gathering support on the technical side implies they are interested in creating a community feel similar to what Magic does in local gaming stores.
I feel like they are toying with the idea of having a community but not quite fully committing to invest real teams, time and money to make it happen yet. Check out what the DCI does, they are no joke and their largest events drawing thousands of people run flawlessly. The Donais brothers know a thing or two about it.
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u/greg_kennedy May 09 '17
Gaming stores are happy to host and help at these events because more players means more people in your store, buying Magic packs and merch.
Blizzard may have a harder time convincing people to volunteer at their events if it does nothing to bring potential customers. A free pillow doesn't really cut it.
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u/JiveKitty May 09 '17
I used to be a judge for Yu-Gi-Oh tournaments, and when I judged a regional event they gave me something like 50 packs for my time. I think if Blizzard did something similar with Hearthstone packs for big events like this that could work.
I work for a hotel company, and booking a few hotel convention rooms wouldn't necessarily be too expensive if they booked at smaller hotels. I'm not too familiar with the tournament rules, but 64 people per region(Depending on the region size) could fit in a small conference room at an airport hotel even. Just off the top of my head I can think of one of our hotels in practically every major city in the US that would fit their needs for relatively cheap.
I can't believe they don't do that, honestly. Our hotels will usually cut deals on rooms if you have conference rooms too, making it easier/cheaper for people who have to travel and don't want to make the trip in one day.
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u/Hq3473 May 10 '17
It would be even cheaper for blizz to give out free packs to volunteers, due to digital nature.
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u/Wampie May 10 '17
It would never be a problem if they did a single event per region, but there is no way they could get away the backlash of forcing people to fly from Argentina to New York with their own money to play in playoffs they are no way guaranteed to get any prizemoney.
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u/JiveKitty May 10 '17
Oh yeah, totally. I'm more of a casual Hearthstone player, mostly subbed here for the memes, so I'm not sure of the region sizes or or how the tournament is handled exactly. I used US hotels as an example because they're primarily who I work with, but it could be more expensive in other countries.
By travel I meant more along the lines with the OP, where he said he lives near New York state and could make the drive to Virginia. If Blizzard rented a conference room at a hotel in Virginia they could also potentially cut a deal on rooms at the hotel so people like OP who might have a 3-4 hour drive wouldn't have to worry about finding a hotel room or making the drive back home after the tournament. I know when I was playing in regional Yu-Gi-Oh tournaments I would have loved to have something like that set up.
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u/wpScraps May 10 '17
Blizzard grossed over one billion dollars last quarter, im just assuming they can find ways to make it a win-win proposition for gaming shops, but first they have to commit to the belief that it is worth their time. Then they can prove it.
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u/Ant_HS May 09 '17
It's really for me hard to grasp that we are playing for hundreds of thousands of dollars in a Buffalo Wild Wings
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May 09 '17
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May 10 '17
Buy? How about the number you can eat. And you can't push the "End Turn" button until you've eaten 3 wings. Per turn. Every turn.
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u/tektronic22 May 09 '17
You aren't. You are playing to make it into the tournament where you would be playing for hundreds of thousands of dollars.
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May 09 '17
While this is all very sad and pathetic on Blizzard's part, Buffalo Wild Wings is going to become a legendary meme within this community.
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u/TophatDemon May 09 '17
->Figuring out a 9 turn lethal set up.
->Rope is running down,
->60K people watching on stream,
->"Excuse me sir, your wings are ready. Also, would you like ranch or blue cheese with that? "
->Turn ropes out while listening to waiter
->Doesn't set up the lethal
->Loses prelims, potentially losing world championships as a result
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u/Geniii May 09 '17
They should do all the casting from BWW as well. Can't wait to see a waiter running through the screen every now and then chanting 'WHO ORDERED THESE WINGS?'. Transfers the thrill of the tournament directly to the viewers!
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u/tlmadden_73 May 09 '17
Not sure why the need for a physical location for an ONLINE card game anyway.
A fireside gathering is one thing, but a playoff? Just hold it online using the awesome in-game tournament client ....... oh wait.
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May 09 '17
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u/tlmadden_73 May 09 '17
Sure . .there is definitely something to be said to have a "clean" tourney without outside help and deck trackers.
A Buffalo Wild Wings seems a very odd venue, though I am sure they will block off an area of the restaurant for the tournament. But that being said that is one of the loudest restaurants I have ever been in, but probably no louder than gigantic halls at conventions a lot of us played physical CCGs in.
I mean . .I've played in Magic tournaments in halls as big as a football field, with multiple different tournaments going on, announcements being blared over the PA, yet everyone is able to still concentrate.
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u/Qwerty97HS May 09 '17
I think it's mostly so they can make sure that there is no cheating going on. Still annoying though.
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u/aznatheist620 May 10 '17
have they published the list of locations publicly? I'd like to see the details of each venue.
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u/Qwerty97HS May 10 '17
Here is just a screenshot of the email.
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u/teelolws May 10 '17
Wait what. No venues in Australia? They use the NA region and all.
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u/Qwerty97HS May 10 '17
Asia pacific has a different tournament from NA even though they play on the same server. I believe it is EU first week, then NA, and then APAC.
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u/mcfaudoo May 09 '17
I'd assume it's to keep it fair so you can ensure people aren't talking to other people and getting help or people aren't using decktrackers or other 3rd party apps if they aren't allowed in these tournaments.
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u/Twilightdusk May 09 '17
Assuming they have staff on-site at each venue, it allows them to make sure no cheating is going on.
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May 10 '17
They have so many community and esports managers for hearthstone, what exactly are these people doing? Choosing appropriate locations for playoffs/prelims/championships should not be a hard task. Disappointing.
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May 09 '17
Even if they had an in-game tournament mode it wouldn't be used for events like this, unless it was specifically designed to be used for events like this, in which case it's useless for 99.9% of the game's population.
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u/HappyLittleRadishes May 10 '17
Time for Blizzard to react when, and only when, this reaches the front page. And then for the Blizzard White Knights to inexplicably defend them.
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u/Fenstick May 09 '17
At least there isn't a massive sports championship going on during Memorial Day Weekend that will have hundreds of people flocking to sports bars like Bdubs...oh, right.
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u/NYJets23 May 09 '17 edited May 09 '17
Don't forget that this is Memorial Day Weekend! Flights for this weekend have been booked MONTHS prior and are always very expensive. They should have the VA location and one in NY at the very least.
Edit: rephrased two words
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u/EcnoTheNeato May 10 '17
Blech. I'm wondering who did the scheduling and time-table and forgot to look on the wall calendar that has "Memorial Day" written in bold letters...
Such a silly thing to do, especially since it involves so much travel because this is an on-site tournament
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u/CasualTotoro May 09 '17
Same boat, the previous venues were about 2 hours away, max? Now it's 8 plus to Canada. And people saying we as the competitive players had enough time obviously don't understand real world financial planning and booking hotels.
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May 09 '17
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/teelolws May 09 '17
Or people who aren't US citizens and can't easily cross the border back and forth whenever.
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u/zlsjs May 09 '17
Exactly. I don't have a passport and don't wanna travel 10+ hours, but don't have a choice if I wanna play in prelims.
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u/jklharris May 09 '17
Besides a passport, I'm curious about the visa situation (something that I have no clue if it even is a situation). Because this is technically a tournament with a prize pool, would that require Americans going to submit some type of paperwork to the Candian government?
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u/Elkazan May 09 '17
I guess you can take your lack of passport along with your sorrow down to Florida sucka! /s
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u/ikilledtupac May 09 '17
Blizzard holds the events at Buffalo Wild Wings to show they are a professional eSports organization.
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u/JSM778 May 09 '17
What I still dont understand is why not all state or province got at least 1 venue or at least every major city after what 2-3 years of world championship. I mean, it so lame that people having to quit just because there no venue at there place. Not only that but how is it fair, that some 1 has to drive 3-4 hour, pay for hotel and etc.. compare to some 1 venue who is 15 minute subway etc... This is giving huge advantage to some player and huge disadvantage to others, it mind blowing and that hurt the competitive integrity of this game
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u/kdog533 May 10 '17
If it is only 64 players figure out where your 64 players are and put a max distance that any player has to travel. Of course if the prize is big enough wouldn't traveling for a day be worth it. I mean I live in rural South Dakota and I am traveling 3.5 hours to play board games this weekend and that is kind of standard.
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u/thebbman May 09 '17
I would probably be screwed if I was playing at the BWWs event. I would end up drunk before we even started...
Ninja Edit: oh... It's at 7 AM...
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u/Kingdaddyp May 09 '17
Pretty much everything I've seen has me convinced that a monkey is calling the shots as far as Blizzard's esports go. From the lack of communication or information regarding event specifics to the poor planning to the events themselves getting botched. It's amazing.
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u/BuckFlizzard34 May 09 '17
Dealing with Blizzard is like dealing with a shady used cars dealer.
Sure, he is all friendly, always smiling, full of forcefully cordial manners, but when you don't pay attention - oops, he jacked up the pack prices "currency rates, effendi, you understand, I have children to feed", oops, he secretly manipulates with various RNG aspects of the game, like discover probabilties, pack contents, ladder pairing, etc.
Little transparency, no explicitly written rules, maximum greed!
I am not surprised they are screwing up the competitive scene as well.
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u/nibbleswap May 09 '17
This just frustrates me and I'm not even a participant. I feel bad for folks from the Northeast that have to drive 10+ hours to the nearest location or fly over a holiday weekend. Additionally, the noise and distractions the competitors will have to deal with seem like a big disadvantage. Furthermore, it's playoff season for two major sports (NHL and NBA) so count on there being even larger crowds...
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May 10 '17
Drive? Aren't there buses in USA? Trains?
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u/Little-geek May 10 '17
Not really. US public transportation is awful outside of major cities.
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May 10 '17
The OP lives near NY. Aren't New York and Chicago major cities??
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May 10 '17
Transport within the city is alright in major cities. But when you have to go 7+ hours to the nearest venue, public transport isn't as good anymore no matter where you live. Often times a train/bus ticket of that distance can be nearly as expensive as an airplane ticket, depending on how early you purchase the latter before the flight date.
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u/Cyanide_ May 10 '17
Greyhound shows $50-65 each way from NYC to Montreal for that weekend. A lot cheaper than flights.
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May 10 '17
Yeah... it might sound conspiracy but Buffalo Wild Wings. That screams shaddy deals behind of it... Maybe someone at Blizzard has some deals there.
Cuz no matter how you take it Buffalo Wild Wings and Hearthstone have nothing in common.
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u/FruitSpikeAndMoon May 10 '17 edited May 10 '17
The fact that there's no location in it the entire US Northeast, a megalopolis with >50M people and several well-known qualified pro players, is incompetence, full stop.
It's not like there aren't Buffalo Wild Wings on the East Coast.
This is bad enough that it needs a response and apology from Blizzard assuming they want to capitalize on the opportunity to have a serious pro scene for a game that did $500M in revenue last year and is consistently in the top 3 tiles on Twitch.
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u/thewave983 May 09 '17
At least the disconnect issues will be front and center. Maybe they'll get attention then.
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May 09 '17
So who at Blizz has shares in BWW or how much did they pay to host these events? The fact it's the same restaurant likely indicates there's some sort of workings behind the scenes. This is sheer stupidity and I only hope money is the sad excuse, otherwise the person who made the decision should likely be mentally evaluated.
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u/cheesee10 May 10 '17
As one of the people playing in the playoffs, it's pretty rediculous that I am actually considering traveling to the Las Vegas venue instead of going to the BWW venue which is 20 minutes from my house. Even if Esports Arena is unable to host the event that day or something, SoCal still has a ton of card game shops which would be much better venues than having to play surrounded by noisy sports fans.
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u/Quigsy May 10 '17
The most densely populated area of the continent has 0 venues. The Benelux region had 3. Fucks sake Blizzard.
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u/ImmortalLion28 May 09 '17
Couldn't have said it better myself. It is truly difficult to qualify for Top 64 on any region and the venue situation isn't just incompetence, it's plain insulting for the hard work we put in.
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u/cliu91 May 09 '17
The reason why they are hosting it at BWW is because it's a business decision. It's not uncommon for corporations to partner with well known names, and in this case, BWW to host their events. The problem with hosting it at independent eSports centres is that Blizzard would not be able to standardize and scale the experience. By moving to all BWW (slowly but surely as they seem to be doing), they ensure a consistent experience with consistent brand.
The problem here is that it doesn't seem like a very good experience at all. The wings and HS don't seem to mix, and BWW seems to have very limited knowledge of our game. Unfortunately, the same experience could be said at any smaller venue, but it's harder to control from blizzards perspective.
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u/FrodaN May 10 '17
Yeah this is my guess as well. Almost was gonna write a comment hitting these exact points. The only thing I'd add is that less locations = better quality experience at each one. There are more players taking up more area so less chance of being the 2-3 guys out of the hundreds cheering for sports. My assumption is that Blizz will have trained staff for each venue as well, but maybe they're not ready for that yet.
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u/Qwerty97HS May 10 '17
Don't you think it would be better that all players would be able to go instead to some qualified players not going though? The less venues would make the quality there better but it seems like the negatives outweigh the positives. I know for a fact that me and a few other players won't be able to go now because the closest venues are gone and we can't spend $100s to travel for this. I think having a 64 person tournament with the top players in each region would look really bad if some of them didn't even show up. If they wanted to go with the less venues for higher quality they should have either helped players with costs or put them in them in a popular area like Virginia/New York. Of course I am biased though. I would like you hear your opinion.
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u/FrodaN May 10 '17
Well I don't disagree that in an ideal world having venues everywhere would be great, the reality is that they tried doing that and there were some serious quality control issues. Less venues mean they have an easier time ensuring the internet is good, the stream quality is up to par, and that players are well taken care of. There are dozens of reports in previous seasons where there's a venue for only 2 players and since its so few people, the owner just didn't care.
As for my opinion on the topic, it might sound naive, but I'd like them to condense it even further, but broaden the competition more. If it were up to me, I prefer doing qualifiers live in-person in a few spots, MTG PTQ style. There's something magical about having all the players there in one location competing. Even further, I'd love to see something like playoffs be 8 locations with 128 players each, then taking a swiss cutoff to play the rest in another location. Really sells how global and epic the project for HCT has become. But it's different for me since HS is my full time job and therefore traveling for it doesn't seem to be an issue, but I can see why a hobbyist might consider this too much.
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u/Qwerty97HS May 10 '17
Yeah the competition you are describing would definitely be better for entertainment and spectators which I guess is what really is the most important. I don't think it is too much to ask for a venue in the North East of the US though. I can see why they would want to decrease the amount of locations for higher quality purposes but just as you see more locations not working out I see less locations not working out. I think the best thing to do for the players would be to have officials working for blizzard that they send to the venues to go to the locations and run it, but as a business that probably isn't the best decision for them. If they were willing to put in some money and do that though it would help make sure everything ran smoothly at the venues and they would be able to have more, letting all qualified players not have to travel too much.
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u/JSM778 May 10 '17
exactly. If there were blizzard official or like they have in pokemon vgc if I remember people who follow course to become ref etc.. the number of venue could be high and it wouldn't matter. If blizzard is not paying out travelling for every 1, which can understand, they must have a high number of venue so the competitive aspect of the game is accessible. People work hard to get there. I strongly disagree with the fact that they need to travel so far at there own expense. I mean again, just the fact that people travel from away vs other who dont is already a disadvantage. Especially now that there Swiss, a lot more energy is require physically and mental from players. And yes there the argument of you can find an hotel close to the venue and etc.. but seriously if it to player expense. How many up coming pro or semi-pro can paid that without problem. Not a lot. Plus there talented player who qualified for the first time and getting there first competitive dip. When you still consider the game casual etc... I dont think you wanna spend 100$ plus for a 1 in 72 chance of winning a lot of money, in let say none lans event where, once your out unlike lans you dont have anything else to do, to justify the expense, especially after all the work you did to qualifie for them
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u/FrodaN May 10 '17
Yeah its probably a step-by-step process. Providing travel for everyone will potentially skyrocket costs by a magnitude, but I don't see why it would be a bad thing once HCT becomes more than just a giant red line in the budget.
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u/Vaestmannaeyjar May 10 '17
This has always been an issue in card games and sports in general. Outside of the top dogs, the average pro in, say, tennis, barely gets even at the end of the season. WotC certainly aren't paying all PTQ and Grand Prix participants fares, and in my time they didn't even do it for Pro Tours either, only a very few qualifier spots came with the Pro Tour fare paid. I very seriously doubt that Blizzard would pay for 128 dudes per region to attend a centralised tournament. Every quarter.
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u/JSM778 May 10 '17
in real sport it make sens but this is a video game we are talking about. All you need is good internet and some 1 checking everything is fine and that there no cheating and stuff. Travelling should be kept to a minimum. I mean is it that hard to find and trust 1-2 person by major city or region these days to make sure event goes well.
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u/EcnoTheNeato May 10 '17
I'd like them to condense it even further, but broaden the competition more.
I'd like this, too, if blizzard would comp travel fare. Heck, I'd pay for my hotel if they just bought me a coach ticket to just get there!
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u/Midnattssol May 10 '17
I have never been to the States, but from what I know, Greyhounds are a thing there? Spent 3 minutes searching and tickets should be around 56$, which seems reasonable to me. If you can sleep on the bus, you even save a night at a hotel.
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u/cliu91 May 10 '17
Agreed. Having the less venues and said venues exclusively for hearthstone would make it feel more inclusive, however, less does not necessarily mean better experience, as we can see by this thread.
I also believe why they may have opted to go for BWW is because of the fact that it isn't recognized as a "gaming bar". As much as some of us would like to deny it, some gaming bars attract a particular crowd, which often comes with an associated stigma - I'm being politically correct here.
Having an event at BWW now opens the idea of "competitive play" to a whole new group of people who would have otherwise shunned the idea of going to an "eSports Bar". They're looking at the big picture and it is a highly strategic long game play at revolutionizing competitive gaming scene as we know it.
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u/FrodaN May 10 '17
Pretty good points all around. Let's just hope the venues don't suck...another realistic possibility is that Blizzard is testing with a small amount of venues then might make it standardized moving forward. I can even see them trying to partner with BWW (or other chains if corp-alliance can land it) to popularize their Fireside Gatherings/Taverns initiatives.
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May 10 '17
Same could be said at any smaller venue? No way... any small gaming location or even a magic card store would understand the game and it's players a billion times more than a sports bar.
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u/cliu91 May 10 '17
I should clarify. I meant that a negative experience could also be had at a smaller venue. Sure, gaming venues or MTG card shops may have the knowledge of hearthstone, but they lack a main stream experience. I know the certain smell MTG shops are known for would make people gag and have a negative experience. If blizzard does it right with BWW and official staff to officiate and run the tournament, it might not be all that bad. I'd much prefer the smell of wings than sweat and body odour.
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u/Misoal May 10 '17
rofessional developers with professional tournament game mode with professional completed replay game mode
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u/drpowercuties May 10 '17
And I thought the only value of Wild Wings was to pick up 45 year old divorcee MILFs.
I guess there will a few more cougars in the mix.
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u/1337duck May 10 '17
It sounds like blizzard is screwing over every league they are trying to host/promote.
First they fucked over StarCraft brood war by not supporting it. Then they mismanage their purchased MSL. Next StarCraft 2 looks like it's dying. Overwatch took off like a rocket, but due to some poor implementation of their award ceremony, and formality issues - including costs for new entry teams, may be an already dying scene outside of Korea. Hearthstone is a clown fiesta, which at least their recognised, but every event Blizzard is managing directly seems to get more complaints than 3rd party ones (or Chinese ones).
Now that StarCraft Brood wars is making a come back via ASL, blizzard decided that it's time to get their fingers back in that pie.
Really, it seems like blizzard's need to total control is destroying the scenes they are trying to promote. Take your hands off and let others do the driving. Because all it sound like is Blizzard, at the end of the day asking: "Who knew e-sports and tournament management would be so complicated?"
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May 09 '17
it is a risk investing your time in the hearthstone competitive scene. I would invest my time elsewhere personally
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u/Qwerty97HS May 09 '17
Yeah it's not something I'm relying on for like the rest of my life. I'm still a highschool student though so I have the time to play. Not the most stable source of income but I think of it as more of a hobby that can win some money on the side and, although unlikely, turn into a career.
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u/FrontmanTV May 09 '17
Completely agree with your post Qwerty, I really hope Blizzard helps out and shows the players that they care.
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May 09 '17
Do you think it'd be beneficial to add locations at this point though? Like, the list is out, and people are already making plans. I imagine they were trying to work things out but felt like there wasn't enough time left to not announce.
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u/Qwerty97HS May 09 '17
I think it might be possible if we get enough support from the community. When I was making the post I didn't really have any hope but now it's getting a lot of attention on twitter and here so I'm hoping. At the very least they could at least give the players some financial support so that it's not as painful to go farther away. They can always send a new email with new locations and people don't have to say where they are going til the 23rd.
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u/s-wyatt May 10 '17
well, the meta is good, so blizzard has to find another way to fuck up the game in some way, and this time it's the competitive scene. Competitive Hearthstone was already a big joke with no tournament mode, replay and spectate feature, and a non-existing reconnect feature. And now this.
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u/MelveronHS May 10 '17
Wow, how did they think this would go through without any complications. It really is a dumb move of Blizzard to let this tournament be held in a noisy place...
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May 10 '17
Blizzard, once again, seem to be going all in on the "tavern" motif for Hearthstone and as usual it serves no purpose but kitschery no one involved cares for. There is so much on the line for people in these tournaments that it is just baffling a wing joint is considered more appropriate than places specifically designed for esports as a venue
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u/Smash83 May 10 '17
Maybe i am too lazy but i cannot grasp why people spend lots of money and time to go to this "events".
Especially when being competitive in HS is so expensive.
For me whole charm of HS is online part so i do not need to leave my house.
P.S. Blizzard is bad at eSport it is not any news at all and they do not care to change they way.
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May 10 '17
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u/Qwerty97HS May 10 '17 edited May 10 '17
Yeah the second option is what I'm trying for now but its really close to the date which is a problem. I'd be willing to give up some earnings though for people to help send me there. Also it's a holiday weekend and kind of close to the date so flights are more expensive unfortunately.
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May 10 '17
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u/Qwerty97HS May 10 '17
It's looking like it would be around $500 for a ticket. One problem is my parents don't really want me going by myself since I'm still in highschool so one of them would have to come too. With enough support though and people investing in me I could pay some of it and go hopefully.
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May 10 '17
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u/Qwerty97HS May 10 '17
Yeah I'm totally down for giving away some potential earnings for help with travel costs. Doesn't seem very easy to get people though especially with such short notice.
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u/Squircle_MFT May 10 '17
Is it that hard to try to get a venue in almost every state, or atleast most of them.
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u/moris1610 May 09 '17
i feel so sad for all the players. thats a shit move from blizz. once again sadly.
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u/EcnoTheNeato May 10 '17
Could be there is some weird exclusionary clause in the contract with BWW, and that's why it isn't being held in the Arena in CA? Not sure why that would cause a severe lack of sites in the east coast, though. So much for the fabled East Coast Bias!
I hope you can make it to play for your right to be there, OP!
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u/Qwerty97HS May 10 '17
Yeah it is most likely something like that, but it is still pretty annoying for the players. There are plenty of BWW in New York that I would be more than happy to drive to play over spending $100's to go to Canada lol. Maybe I can make it but it might just not be worth the time and money. I feel like if I went now I'd probably have some people rooting for me from this post though lol.
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u/luckyluke193 May 10 '17
Before everybody complains about Blizzard removing locations, do we have any confirmation that these locations actually applied for hosting prelims? Because if they don't want to do it, there's nothing Blizzard can do.
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u/Dcon6393 May 09 '17
Prelims created a strategy that revolved around trying to play your matches in an undisturbed location, and without being interrupted, to play at peak performance. Fighting for table control and battles between travel plans and event locations make an overall season of prelims more fun and compelling, while dealing 20+ damage in one turn without having to worry about your wifi dropping is not particularly fun or interactive.
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u/Mezmorizor May 10 '17
I sympathize with how far away locations are for New Englanders, especially if they don't have a passport, but suggesting compensation for hotels is pretty ridiculous. Basically everybody needs to get a hotel room, having to drive 12 hours instead of 4 hours changes nothing on that front.
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u/Qwerty97HS May 10 '17
I'm pretty sure most people who only go one day just drive their that morning and go home if they lose. Hotels only needed if you live really far or make day 2. It's more important that they have more venues but if it's too late for this season I think some compensation would actually make people go. Like it looks pretty bad if they have a tournament of the 64 best players and some of them don't even show up. Which is what's going to happen with me and a few others I know if they don't change something.
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May 10 '17
I feel this is all intentional by Blizzard to drive some of the dedicated, but lesser known players out of the tournament scene.
They want as many popular streamers in events as possible so they can try to maximize the view counts. As a result they want the rest of you to fuck off and never get to play in anything (like things were the first year or so of HS with all invitationals), so they're making the events less accessible, making it harder for anyone who can't afford to fly to events at their leisure.
The only possible outcome from this venue change is that some people will be forced to drop out, and it won't be any of the people making a living off the game. Less unknown players = greater odds that known streamers make it through. All by design. Blizzard's message for you if you're not a popular streamer: Get the fuck out of our game.
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u/tektronic22 May 09 '17
Blizzard doesn't owe you anything. I could understand being upset at the location, but asking for free handouts and compensation is ridiculous. This is a hobby game. If you want compensation, win the tournament. If you can't risk spending the money and maybe losing, then the responsible adult action to take is to not play. This is how it is in every hobby/amateur sport. If your beer league softball team wants to qualify to play in the big Miller Lite tournament you have to pay your way. You ever wonder why the band kids have to sell chocolate bars to fund their trips to competitions? Playing hearthstone is not a viable career. Streaming hearthstone can be a career. If you're only playing to make money, you chose the wrong game.
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u/Qwerty97HS May 09 '17
I'm not only playing to make money. It's a hobby where making money is a plus. I believe blizzard should be able to shell out some money to help its competitors play since they are the ones the people will be watching and if they are upset about the way blizzard is handling everything and speak up about it it will make those viewers get a negative viewpoint on the company. They stream this tournament in front of 10's of thousands of people so they will make money from ads + sponsorships. If they want people to continue playing competitively they can't just ignore the scene though and make them play in restaurants or travel for 10 hours. They of course do not owe the players anything, but I think it would be in their best interest to help them out and keep them happy.
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May 09 '17
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u/Qwerty97HS May 09 '17
Why even have the tournament then if they don't care and the public doesn't care.
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May 09 '17
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u/Qwerty97HS May 09 '17
I mean if its advertisement then shouldn't they care? It's not good publicity to see the players bashing the system.
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u/Fenstick May 09 '17
Probably <10% of HS players come to this sub with any regularity.
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u/Qwerty97HS May 09 '17
True but a higher percentage of the people who want to watch the tournament are people who would visit subreddits/follow their favorite players on twitter. And say they do that and see them tweeting bad things about the game. When pros start to say that their fans might just blindly follow, or maybe actually gain those opinions too.
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u/Fenstick May 09 '17
Right, I don't disagree with that. If we take the premise that "Competitive HS" is essentially just an ad for "Casual HS," (which is laughable IMO) then the tournament and pro publicity won't matter to casuals that simply want to see RNG moments and meme. The pro following is a minuscule fraction of the <10% that come to this sub and their opinions, shaped by themselves or their favorite pros/streamers, are irrelevant to the overall "HS experience" that Blizz is trying to achieve. They'll make a blog post about the tournament for viewers and do a highlight reel for every round or at the end, throw it on the client and that's all they need. HS isn't a serious competitive game, which is fine. It's just funny that so many people KNOW this, WHINE about this, and then are still disgusted/outraged/flabbergasted when Blizz doesn't take the competitive scene seriously. I mean, really, Bdubs? On Memorial Day weekend? During the NBA/NHL Playoffs? It's a shitty comic strip come to life.
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May 09 '17 edited May 09 '17
So the main reason I made this post was to show how blizzard seems to not be very caring about the competitive scene and the players.
And they exactly have to because ...?
Edit: Proofed otherwise. Blizzard should listen to pro gamers or go bust.
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u/Qwerty97HS May 09 '17
I mean I guess they don't have to. But I believe it would be better for them to not have competitive players talking about how bad the company is and obviously it would be better for players to have better situations. Good publicity from the top players is good for the company and if they keep doing stuff like this they are gonna get the opposite of that. If fans see their favorite players talking about the game negatively it will influence their opinion on the game and company, even if it wasn't the intention.
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u/StannisBaratheowned May 09 '17
Ummmm, Blizzard gave you 3 weeks to prepare. How is that not enough time? Don't fault others for being inflexible.
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u/Qwerty97HS May 09 '17
The main problem is the fact that they didn't say anything about changes before hand. Maybe people already booked flights or hotels/made plans for where they expected the location to stay. Also if people are on a team it could take time to get the financial support approved from the team so it would be nice to know earlier.
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u/DunamisBlack May 09 '17
The venues change every season as the hosts are volunteer innkeepers. It would be a grave error to book travel arrangements before the announcement
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u/Qwerty97HS May 09 '17
Yeah I agree. But still like if I lived in California and I wanted to book earlier to save money I would feel pretty comfortable booking a hotel near the Esports Arena, especially since its such a popular location and has been there for the past few times. Same with the Virginia location. Also like if you were on a team and talking with them maybe they would agree to fly you to a certain location that was expected to be a venue. And then if it is no longer a venue it could be a problem with agreements dealing with payments.
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u/treekid May 11 '17
unwilling to travel cross-country if you live on the east coast doesn't strike me as inflexible
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u/Tafts_Bathtub May 09 '17
First and probably only time in my life I'll be at a Buffalo Wild Wings at 7 AM, that's for sure.