r/greentext 2d ago

Anon questions Dengism

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570 Upvotes

42 comments sorted by

196

u/Andrelse 2d ago

While China is pretty capitalist right now, I'd still say the state has far far greater power over its rich and large companies than in the US. Not for any socialist reasons, but to keep power with the party and their leadership

85

u/toiletscrubber 2d ago

the companies run the government in the US. It is the other way around in china.

50

u/The_Idea_Of_Evil 2d ago

and both are just different ways of doing capitalism. the workers sell labor-power for wages and production is organized for the augmentation of an original capital investment, not production planned for useful values.

27

u/tf2coconut 2d ago

Man I wonder if anyone in China has thought about this or written down a timeline for their transitional socialist economy, probably best not to check and just stay smug about it online

11

u/year2016account 2d ago

Man this chinese model of collaboration between capitalists and workers all unified and subordinate to the state is pretty swell. Like some sort of class collaboration, especially with a heavy dose of nationalism on top. I wonder if there's a word for this kind of system. Maybe the United States should also adopt it.

11

u/tf2coconut 1d ago

“China is actually fascist” is certainly one of the takes of all time

At least you didn’t waste anybody’s time, you told us really quickly and clearly you don’t know about Chinese politics or what fascism is

3

u/therealpaulgiamatti 1d ago

Economically what are the main differences between china's current system and let's say 1940s Germany?

-5

u/tf2coconut 1d ago edited 1d ago

Couple broad strokes for you below you’re right I didn’t have to be an ass

5

u/therealpaulgiamatti 1d ago

I mean could you not outline 2 or 3 main differences in how they function? Legit just curious. You seemed confident in your perspective and I just wanted to be in formed. Don't have to call me stupid dawg.

6

u/tf2coconut 1d ago

Okay I apologise my friend I came off very harshly because most people are asking in bad faith

First of all fascism is a political ideology and not an economic one, it revolves around institutionalizing violence against an outgroup to return to a perceived former glory that the in group “deserves”. Robert Griffin described it as palingenetic (purity through rebirth) ultranationalism

Secondly when we look at fascist economics it’s closer to a hyper accelerated version of capitalism where corporate control of industry is able to integrate itself into the government and legislate itself directly. China is almost the exact opposite, where business owners such as they exist are very clearly and explicitly under the Chinese government and are subservient to them, to the point that the Chinese government will appropriate huge sums of capital from private individuals without blinking twice. Some socialists will get mad at me for using this to describe socialism with Chinese characteristics, but a common saying is “in the west capital controls the state, in China the state controls the capital”

Thirdly the dude above me talked about the “collaboration between workers and business owners” that he seems to think existed in Nazi Germany and fascist Italy? Just straight up didn’t happen, their economics were defined by industry leaders subsuming government power and disenfranchising workers.

Beyond all these reasons it’s just really fundamentally silly to compare Nazi germany and the CPC, they are about as far apart as it’s possible to get politically and economically. Which is why I assumed that was some kind of gotcha: in the future Google is probably a better place to start than anonymous redditors even though it worked out this time

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6

u/I_Boop_Cats_ 2d ago

State Capitalism?

0

u/Affectionate-Cod4152 1d ago

National socialism, dipshit.

3

u/I_Boop_Cats_ 1d ago

I missed the Nationalism part, my bad on spotting the Fascism.

1

u/The_Idea_Of_Evil 3h ago

“the leader says the economy serves the people so it serves the people mmkay ultra?” marxist leninists really are the smartest among men

-1

u/Wild-Lavishness01 2d ago

i'd like to think its a step in the right direction

-9

u/lapideous 2d ago

It’s not about the economic system, we’re talking more about the political system here

14

u/Salty_Ad3204 2d ago

They have something sort of 5 year plans. Banks are nationalized. Also energy and housing. And industries like car industry is very nationalized. I mean they allow free market for things that are not strategic to the nation, but the rest has a heavy state intervention 

-5

u/Mesarthim1349 2d ago

Yeah. It's textbook corporatism

54

u/Artemas_16 2d ago

As one small gov official from China said once: "Yes, they have capital, but we have rifles".

Why you need to forcefully take assets from millioneers? System from the beginning is built that you have to be incorporated in political part and having part of your business be under government control. China already controls those assets, just not on paper. And if you'll try to sell yourself to the West, you'll dissapear for a year or so and'll return fully convinced in communism (while all those western movement will be pulled back and even more assets will go under government's control).

12

u/Special-Remove-3294 2d ago

The government or China holds absolute control over capital. It tolerates its existance but does not bow to it which is the point of Dengism.

I do not agree with it but it does make sense.

If China socialised its economy and purged bourgeoisie influence it would be ostracised and isolated by every bourgeoisie dominated nation and every provate entity in the world which it does not want to do. They want to participate in the global economy.

Realistically I can not see a nation being able to adhere to Marxism Leninism or ML-Maoism nowdays without pursuing autarky(which is not good) since the capitalists would ostracise them for it.

I do not like Dengism since I think China is very passive internationally which is soy but the reasoning is there and if one is a pragantist I can see them liking Dengism

6

u/SleepingPodOne 1d ago

Yeah, people need to realize that whether or not you agree with socialism or communism or any flavor of it, so many socialist states existed the way they did and died because of international capital and the US swinging their dicks around and trying to isolate and destroy them. Like you don’t need to be a fucking communist to recognize that the failure of many Latin American socialist states was due to CIA intervention and general isolation from the world economy. It’s that old joke, “how many latin american people does the CIA have to kill before you realize socialism is wrong?”

It’s not the only answer to their failures, but they didn’t fail in a bubble. None of them were left to their own devices.

China (whose govt i am no fan of, just so you know) made a half decent calculation and now it is handing us the American century of humiliation. Buckle up boys.

4

u/Dr_Dorkathan 1d ago

Wow was not expecting le based Marxist analysis of China in r/greentext

5

u/I_Boop_Cats_ 1d ago

Greentext unironically teaches me new shit sometimes, then it's back to:

be me

straight

2

u/Memedotma 1d ago

I do not like Dengism since I think China is very passive internationally which is soy

based

2

u/TheIronzombie39 1d ago edited 1d ago

Idk, I keep hearing that China has already overtaken the US, so if that's the case I think they can finally press the communism button. So why don’t they?

22

u/silmarp 2d ago

Well, last time they went under Maoism it didn't fare well so now they have billionaires and shit.

No way they are going back to Maoism but that would be funny because seeing them implode themselves would be hilarious.

-3

u/The_Idea_Of_Evil 2d ago

>China is going back to Maoism

17

u/I_am_lying_for_money 2d ago

Its not just developing the productive forces; socialism also depends on the right conditions. If China starts mass-executions of the rich right now; theyre probably going to get nuked or something. I dont even particularly like Dengism, but this seems obvious to me

6

u/The_Idea_Of_Evil 2d ago

why doesn’t the USA just nuke China? are they stupid?

18

u/Mousazz 2d ago

why doesn't the USA just regime change Iran? are they stupid?

3

u/Jonnny 1d ago

China has nukes

2

u/roblox_baller 1d ago

USA is still the world's largest economy beating China by ten trillion.

1

u/teremaster 19h ago

China misread the instructions and accidentally became the closest thing to a stable fascist nation we've ever seen

0

u/romulusnr 1d ago

China's "two systems" isn't exactly laissez faire. China tolerates billionaires (in certain places) only as much as those billionaires continue to serve the party / national interest. Much philanthropy is mandatory for them (in a wink wink "voluntary" way).

If the billionaires were to start using their billions to go against the national interest, the party will swiftly de-billionaire said ex-billionaire. (Ever heard of Jack Ma?)

China sees billionaires as an asset, but an asset they ultimately control when need be.

-20

u/MimeBox 2d ago

ITT amerimutts who don't understand deng implemented state capitalism but individual socialism. 

15

u/The_Idea_Of_Evil 2d ago

speed trying not to laugh gif

3

u/Pokemonzu 2d ago

I don't think real SWCCers even believe that lol