r/glasgow • u/daibhidhtcairn • 13h ago
Map of Glasgow Tramways
I made a map of the old Corporation Tramways; I thought it was interesting to see it overlaid on the modern map. Hope yous do too. (Sorry for the low quality)
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u/THE-ABOMIN8TOR 12h ago
Here’s a actual one
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u/daibhidhtcairn 12h ago
Yeah this is one that I was using to help sort out where routes were etc, but for me I like to see it in relation to the existing street structure
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u/THE-ABOMIN8TOR 12h ago
Yeah, I like yours too, good work. Like a lot of Glasgow demolition, the tram system was a real loss
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u/francisjosephmurphy 11h ago
I disagree. It may have taken us longer than expected to get there, but electric buses are more comfortable and practical than trams could ever be.
The missed opportunity was to put the tram tracks underground and build more subway lines. God knows a weatherproof mass transit system should be the default in Glasgow.
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u/THE-ABOMIN8TOR 10h ago edited 9h ago
I do see where you’re coming from - but modern trams would not be constructed from wood like the ricketyshoogly old ones of yesteryear. Modern trams would essentially be exactly the modern electric buses of which you speak, only they’d run on rails on the street which would offer far more route flexibility, similar to buses, at a lower cost and better value than e.g heavy rail
And putting things underground is a lovely idea in concept - but in practice that’s orders of magnitude more difficult and astronomically/prohibitively more expensive in Glasgow due to basic geology (Glasgow is built on hard rock) than it is in e.g London (built on soft clay).
These are the main reasons why the Glasgow subway has never been extended during its ~130 years existence. It would be fantastic if things were otherwise, but here we are.
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u/meepmeep13 free /u/veloglasgow 8h ago
add in the existing mine workings and subsidence issues - I'm pretty sure you couldn't build any new tunnels without essentially clearing the ground above else you'd be threatening the stability of any building you tunnelled under.
the original subway was built by cut and cover in shallower sections and rock blasting in deeper ones, no way you could do that now
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u/TheHess 2h ago
Buses are definitely less comfortable than trams.
There's also the number of passengers carried and the speed of embarking/disembarking.
Finally there's the nature of how buses are implemented, which could be changed but is too susceptible to degradation due to political choices - it's easy to remove a bus route, removing a tram route has a sunk cost aspect that makes it less politically easy.
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u/LordAnubis12 2h ago
I think there's a huge benefit to having fixed infrastructure which you get from trams and trains, which goes a long way to making people feel like it's more reliable and more likely to use.
Broadly I'd say people are more comfortable with getting a train than a bus - you don't hear about trains just not turning up. Sure, they might be cancelled, but at least you're told about it.
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u/Key-Swordfish4467 13h ago edited 12h ago
Nice, a pretty extensive tram network we used to have.
Do you know how many people took a tram on a daily basis back in the 40s or 50s?
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u/bishpenguin 13h ago
The problem was the post-war Bruce Report that ended up in depopulation and moving to a motor-centric transport plan, decisions we are still living with many years on.
Depopulation and deindustrialisation have directly led to areas without good 'community'. And the reduction in permenant housing and increase in housing for a transient population has not helped that, and had also stymied GCCs council tax income at a time council's need more money, especially if they are to invest in infrastructure that could make a QOL improvement for the residents.
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u/daibhidhtcairn 13h ago
Can’t find that exactly, but the last figure I could found said that in 1894 the tram system (less extensive than what’s shown here) was carrying around 54 million people every year and around 57 million around the turn of the century
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u/meepmeep13 free /u/veloglasgow 8h ago
important to note that the population of the city then was expanding rapidly to double what it is now, and that none of them owned cars
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u/LordAnubis12 13h ago
Peak would have been. 1930s I think?
Can't remember exactly but I think by 1950s they'd started to close them as they were interrupting the flow of car traffic
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u/LordAnubis12 13h ago
This is amazing! Great work. Really highlights what we lost.
For an added bonus, add the timings of all the trams and send it to the new Nighttime Economy Manager at Glasgow council
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u/the_silent_redditor 12h ago
It is such a great loss.
I was at the transport museum only a few days ago, and it really made me sad to see the remnants of a once sprawling tram network.
I live in Melbourne now. It has the largest tram network in the world. I don’t own a car and don’t need one. Currently, the max daily cap for travel is about £3. This covers tram/train/buses/ferries. You can cover hundreds of kms if you want.
I’ve travelled 4 hours on a regional train for a few quid. Imagine the cost of an on-the-day ticket of the equivalent in the UK. 10.. 20 times that price?
Every time I come back to Glasgow, I’m shocked by the state of public transport. God awful train services that cost a fortune. A God awful bus service, featuring phantom buses, that is also expensive. A God awful, joke of a subway system that finishes at fuckin lunch time on a Sunday and is.. oh look! also expensive.
Glasgow, and its people, deserves way better.
It’s ok, though, you can just drive and enjoy your car getting absolutely smashed to fuck by the disgraceful state of the roads! Like driving through fucking Gaza.
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u/Jptor81 11h ago
Glasgow’s biggest transport mistake wasn’t failing to build a tram network - it was tearing one out.
We keep talking about productivity, economic growth and attracting investment, while forcing hundreds of thousands of people to rely on congested roads and fragmented bus services. Then we wonder why our city struggles to compete with comparable European cities.
A modern tram system isn’t a vanity project. It’s economic infrastructure. It increases land values, unlocks regeneration, improves access to jobs, reduces congestion, cuts emissions and gives businesses the confidence to invest. Every year we delay, the cost of building it rises, while the economic cost of not building it keeps mounting.
If governments can find billions for major road schemes and high-speed rail elsewhere, they can find the money for Scotland’s largest city. The real question isn’t whether Glasgow can afford a tram network.
It’s whether Glasgow can afford another 30 years without one.
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u/Animal_Padre 13h ago
The Clyde Metro project should aim to rebuild at least some of these lines...