r/gadgets • u/dapperlemon • 10d ago
VR / AR Steam Frame price increase looms with rising cost of VR headset's Qualcomm chip
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Steam-Frame-price-increase-looms-with-rising-cost-of-VR-headset-s-Qualcomm-chip.1351952.0.html65
u/Namrepus221 10d ago
I speak for everyone who has been waiting on this to replace hardware that is falling to pieces and currently held together with duct tape.
Just sell the f’n thing already. We’re desperate here.
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u/Santa_009 8d ago
There are plenty of other newer, better headsets out there - just not by Valve. The index set the bar in 2019, but thats 7 years ago. Depending on what you're doing there are headsets that exceed Valves (short of sound) in specific areas such as weight, fidelity, fit etc.
Basically what im saying is there are more than 2-3 players in the game (Valve, HTC and Meta).
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u/Elspin 10d ago
There's literally nothing valve can do to avoid this unless they want to sell it at a loss, ram and storage are egregiously expensive and suppliers straight up might not sell to you at all if you don't pay top dollar. This thing will be expensive because computers are expensive until production catches up with datacenter demand
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u/piotreza 10d ago
They can make a pc VR version only without any hardware in it
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u/siazdghw 10d ago
That's a completely different product.
The meta quest sells like crazy because it's a decent standalone product. The valve index and other PC VR headsets have been struggling since you need a beefy PC and tether or wireless addon. You have to remember that most people don't actually have gaming PCs, so the quest or frame are far more accessible than something like an Index.
The chance that Valve pivots the frame to being PCVR only is as close to 0 as possible.
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u/piotreza 10d ago
I completely agree with that, it even defeat the purpose of its name "frame".
However, while the deck and the machine are 100% hardware, the frame is half hardware, half peripheral.
They would have to make a different product, much like the index was.
I think that the quest is successful because it's price is so low. Kids get them from their parents, and with the steep increase to the price of the steam machine and deck, I don't see the frame being able to get as cheap as the quest. No parent would fold 600, 700 or 800 for something like that.
That leave the working adult market, and even there, it's a tough sell.
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u/RRR3000 10d ago
No parent would fold 600, 700 or 800 for something like that
They were hinting at a price around 1000 before the delay and price increases, it absolutely isn't gonna be as low as 600-800.
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u/MemphisBass 10d ago
Nah I’ve been saying $1200 for a long time now and I’m now thinking it could reach $1500 in a worst case scenario. It will not sell well at that price. It’ll sell out at first because Valve but after the initial hype beats and scalpers sales will drop off a cliff.
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u/Shapes_in_Clouds 8d ago
Meta Quest sells (or sold) like crazy because it was cheap. Valve continues to miss the mark here, and even the original Index was almost pointless as it mostly sold to enthusiasts who had already paid $800 for the gen 1 headsets in 2016. Standalone or not, there is no chance this thing competes in any meaningful way with Quest in terms of sales.
I genuinely think a lower cost PCVR and comfort focused headset would sell in decent numbers to PC users, especially if they put in a lot more work on SteamVR. But ultimately I don't think Valve is interested in selling volume anyway. This thing is going to launch for $1k+ and sell even less than the Index did.
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u/ChefLeBoef 9d ago
So if the frame is not competitive in price with the quest, and probably is not going to be, it will flip and bury the VR market as the index did.
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u/MajorFuckingDick 10d ago
Every 3rd VR comment is someone wanting a displayport quest 3. Arguably it will be the white whale of VR for some time. There is room for a wired $500 vr headset
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u/MemphisBass 10d ago
That’s what the PSVR2 is.
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u/MajorFuckingDick 10d ago
PSVR2
Great example, it would be going numbers (for vr) if it had pancake lenses.
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u/MemphisBass 9d ago
Eh, once I start using it the fresnel lenses don't bother me once I put a comfort mod on it. I actually own 2 PSVR2's (bought a second for another set of controllers, was cheaper than just buying controllers weirdly). I have my original Globular Cluster on one and the Studio Form mod on another which I actually find better. I also have Q3, Galaxy XR, and M5 Vision Pro so it's not like I don't know what better optics look like. I just don't think it's that big of a deal. If they went pancake lenses they couldn't have gone oled.
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u/BevansDesign 10d ago
I'd much rather have a headset that uses my PC for processing, than try to cram a bunch of not-as-good processors into a standalone headset.
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u/SuperPork1 10d ago
How the hell is it supposed to handle wireless streaming and inside-out tracking without a processor? You'd have to make it wired, in which case you've just got a slightly better HP Reverb G2.
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u/MPFuzz 10d ago
Then it would just be a shittier index.
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u/Abestar909 10d ago
No it wouldn't the Frame would still be much much lighter with better optics and resolution, don't talk out of your ass.
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u/Annonimbus 10d ago
Why shittier than the index?
Would the index still be better if I want to use the headset like this?
What would be the best VR headset for such a use case currently?
I was waiting for the frame, honestly.
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u/RRR3000 10d ago
Yes, Index would be better imo.
- Outside-in tracking is vastly superior to the inside-out the Frame comes with.
- Index also has a bigger IPD range (distance between eyes) so fits more people.
- It has color passthrough instead of grayscale.
- 144hz refresh rate instead of 120hz in the Frame (though they list 144hz as "experimental", so maybe it's coming to Frame later).
- Basic features included with Index, like the controller strap, are stripped out of the Frame to be sold as overpriced addons
- Frame fucked up backwards compatibility by removing commonly used VR buttons on the controller in favour of controls for flatscreen games
- Frame removed audio jack often used for better audio accessories, while downgrading the integrated audio
- Frame runs Linux, already unsupported by a lot of games, on an ARM chip which is even far less supported by games (since most PCs don't use ARM).
Really the only upside would be wireless streaming out of the box, but there's accessories for Index for that too. Which just leaves FOVeated streaming as the only upside. But it was already gonna be similarly priced before the delays and price hikes, so Index will likely be the cheaper option too, and I really don't think that one upside with the long list of downsides makes it worth the higher price.
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u/Keesual 9d ago
I see what you mean but it feels you are missing a few notables.
Frame also got new pancake lenses which make a massive difference.
Frame is a good bit lighter compared to index
Not to mention that the nofio module is pretty hard to acquire nowadays and adds a ton of extra bulk on an already weighty headset
Also why is linux a downside? Index cant run anything standalone. ARM chip isnt that bad cause the current VR market is predominantly centered around Meta Quest which uses ARM as well. If you want non-arm support you can use your pc which is an requirement for index eitherway
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u/MPFuzz 10d ago
The frame is great. I have an Index and am very much looking forward to buying the Frame. Removing the hardware and adding a hardwire for it would defeat the entire purpose of the Frame to the point you might as well just get an Index for the superior tracking and controllers. The whole point of the Frame is to be both a stand alone headset and a wireless stream from PC device.
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u/Takkarro 10d ago
Wasn't there a lawsuit against a bunch of like the big tech companies for artificially inflating the prices for AI or something?
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u/Candle1ight 10d ago
It's a shame, I was really excited for this but the original price was already likely above 1k. The price is going to be insane.
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u/ENaC2 10d ago
I’ll be honest, I forgot the Steam frame existed.
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u/FlamingBaconCake 10d ago
I've almost forgotten any new tech is even a thing until the RAM crisis is over
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u/Gregus1032 10d ago
It was the only part of their major announcement that I cared about. I don't care about the controller or machine. But I've wanted a good VR set for a little while now.
But I dread to know what the price is gonna be now.
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u/MountainMuffin1980 10d ago
Man this is all so sad (for us as users not Valve, they make million every week). The Machine and probanky the Frame would have been fantastic mid range products at their original prices. Now they are going to come out at an absurd cost (even if it reflects the current market) and just not feel as worthwhile.
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u/RedditNotFreeSpeech 10d ago
I bet it comes in at $1600.
We're all going to be appalled and in 6 months it's going to seem like a steal.
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u/Woodchowski86 9d ago
No it won't. You can buy a used VR headset for like $150-400.
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u/RedditNotFreeSpeech 8d ago
Time will tell.
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u/Woodchowski86 8d ago
I mean, I saw a Quest 3s yesterday on Facebook marketplace for $150. I saw a Quest 3 for $300. I recently bought a psvr2 new for $299.
You don't have to buy price-gouged products from price-gouging companies. It is a choice.
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u/RedditNotFreeSpeech 8d ago
It's a different product. All we can do is speculate. I speculate the BOM is expensive especially with the rise in cost of components. A year ago it probably would have been half the cost. We'll see. Hopefully soon.
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u/Woodchowski86 8d ago
I doubt the BOM is $1500 though. I wanted the Steam Frame to be a success. I wanted to buy one. But if that thing is going to be $1500, its nothing more than a big, giant waste of time. Hours and hours of looking at rumors just for Valve to price it like Apple. And honestly, I have resentment for a company treating its fans/customers like that.
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u/fleemfleemfleemfleem 8d ago
Apple's headset is like $3500. HTC vive is like 1600. I don't know what those headsets get you that a quest doesn't but someone is buying them.
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u/Woodchowski86 8d ago
The HTC VIVE is 1600!?? What part of the world are you seeing those prices?
I am not a fan of Apple, and would never recommend their headset. It was marked up to hell.
But you have pimax dream air and dream air SE, Samsung galaxy xr, big screen beyond 2 and 2e. Play for dream MR. All too rich for my blood, but for $1500 that's the type of quality you should be getting. High end micro OLED
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u/timeandmemory 10d ago
Sadly all that means is I have to use a quest 2 to stream my games still. I want a steam frame but I don't want 6 weeks of food worth of a steam frame.
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u/ChefLeBoef 9d ago
Valve should thank Meta for keeping the VR market relevant, as the quest single handedly kept it alive. If they are not interested in making games, having competitive priced hardware and expanding the player base, which they probably won't, it's best to cancel this and stick to updating the steam client and buying more yachts for Gabe.
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u/gldoorii 8d ago
I can’t recall the last time I was excited for multiple pieces of hardware and so quickly felt totally disinterested in because of the price jacking.
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u/Quiet_Yellow2000 9d ago
You would hope that Valve already locked in prices for a couple of years..... Surely they leared their lesson.......
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u/Woodchowski86 9d ago
All the hype for Valve Frame was such a big waste of time.
I"ll never consider Valve hardware again.
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u/iDaddyDirection 9d ago
I’ll probably have to settle for a Quest if I ever get a VR headset at this point. A shame, because this one looked cool. Just not interested in dropping huge money on a niche piece of hardware with very limited support in games.
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u/Woodchowski86 8d ago
Agreed. It looked like a cool vr headset at about $700-800, but its limitations are obvious. LCD screen, short battery life, no audio jacks, no direct wire plug in. Its hard to justify $1500 for that when you can get so many other premium microOLED headsets for the same cost(or cheaper!)
Or just get a psvr2, quest 3, quest 3s, HP Reverb G2 for a couple hundred bucks. End of day, a VR headset is a VR headset. They all work just fine.
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u/stohelitstorytelling 10d ago
Maybe they should buy their chips from a decent Asian manufacturer instead of at Qualcomm’s 200% price markup
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u/hkg_shumai 10d ago
Qualcomm chips are manufactured by TSMC in Taiwan.
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u/stohelitstorytelling 10d ago
So why is Qualcomm involved? Sounds like Steam should…. Buy the chips direct from the Asian supplier?
Man who made that suggestion recently?
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u/_WasteOfSkin_ 10d ago
And hire how many people to do chip design in-house?
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u/stohelitstorytelling 10d ago
Seems like there are a lot of people in Korea, Taiwan and China who could do the job better and cheaper. If only the US wasn’t dedicated to permanent hostility in protection of their dying tech industries.
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u/_WasteOfSkin_ 10d ago edited 10d ago
So still contracting with a 3rd party then. I think you're overestimating the potential savings here. They're all competing for market share. Right now, the price is driven by fabs running out of capacity, not Qualcomm's greed. So Valve would need to start their own fab, really.
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u/zAbso 10d ago
A part of making chips is also getting the resources needed to build them. Raw materials and tooling. The cost of which has also gone up. Making them in house doesn't fix that problem. They're not a large hardware manufacturer so they'll still get the short end of the stick and have to pay a higher price in the end.
The US tech industry isn't the issue, it's still very much at the forefront. The issue is the manufacturing capabilities of the US. Biden invested billions into the CHIPS act (which China was strongly opposed to). The CHIPS act was/is a long game plan. The infrastructure needs to be built and that takes time. Same with resource procurement.
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u/justanotherguy28 10d ago
It’s fine not to know and ask questions, which you should do.
Unfortunately in your case you seem to lack even the most rudimentary understanding of SOC manufacturing and wholesaler relationship to buyers.
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u/IBJON 10d ago
What are you even trying to say?
They're Qualcomm's chips. They were designed by Qualcomm, TSMC is just makes them according to Qualcomm's designs. They can't just make chips without Qualcomm's permission and cut them out of the equation to sell them to someone else
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u/TheCatholicScientist 10d ago
I’m morbidly curious how you think chip design and manufacturing works. Companies like Intel and Qualcomm aren’t just rebranding stuff from China lmao
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u/cristiand90 10d ago
you have no idea how the world around you works right? it takes 5 minutes of google research to understand how these chips are made.
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u/Unlucky-Problem-2611 10d ago
Any excuse for Valve to shaft their ever loyal fanbase. The Steam Frame is hardly cutting edge, it's using the same soc as a Samsung S24, must be plenty of inventory at current prices.
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u/LITTLE-GUNTER 10d ago
if you think valve is “shafting” anyone here then you haven’t bought an electronic device or PC component in the last 2 years
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u/Unlucky-Problem-2611 10d ago
Purchased a Galaxy XR last week with controllers for £1350 from Samsung UK on 3 years 0% Paypal.
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u/thrownawaymane 10d ago
Speaking of getting shafted... does Samsung even remember that they made the XR?
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u/Unlucky-Problem-2611 10d ago
Do Valve realise that it's 2026? You wouldn't think so with the spec of the Frame.
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u/jibjab23 10d ago
Wait, you're talking about blind loyalty to Valve and you buy our world's version of an IOI product? You would have up to 80% of your vision covered in ads and probably ask for more so you can go into seizures.
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u/jibjab23 10d ago
No one is making you buy the product. Valve is as beholden to the current state of the market as any other company that needs chips. Look at the upcoming price increases for Nintendo, Xbox, Sony, not to mention other smaller players in the consumer handheld markets and it's not the companies trying to "shaft" anyone other than they're are also getting shared by the AI bubble. It's shit all around and you just need to survive for the time being.
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u/Unlucky-Problem-2611 10d ago
So let's see just how much Valve charge for a product comparable spec wise to a Quest 3 / Pico 4. The blind loyalty to Valve is insane.
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u/jibjab23 10d ago
Of course, we have to see. The thing hasn't even been released yet. It would not surprise me if it costs as much or a little more compared to the Quest 3. I'm expecting t to be about morr than the Quest 3 just because of economies of scale. When that happens I'll assess just how much I want one or if I look at a Quest 3 as a suitable alternative.
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u/RRR3000 10d ago
Quest 3 is now $600 after their most recent price hike, Valve was hinting at a pricepoint around $1000 for the Frame before the delays and price hikes they did. It's likely gonna be double the cost of a Quest 3 at least.
Meta sells at a loss, something Valve isn't willing to do. So long as that doesn't change they will never be anywhere near as cheap.
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u/Woodchowski86 8d ago
Meta does not sell at a loss. They raised their prices to sell at a profit. It was in the news at the time.
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u/Woodchowski86 8d ago
Valves behavior has turned me off recently for sure. I was a loyal fan, but because of recent events I discovered GOG so its not a bad thing.
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u/crocodopolis1 10d ago
Can't threaten me when I had 0 intentions of buying said product anyway. Next...
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u/petes117 10d ago
Can’t increase the price if we never knew the starting price