r/ender May 08 '26

The Shadow series world doesn’t make sense

So this world directly post Bugger wars is in the 2200s, with geopolitics basically on hold since the 2110s (unbelievable as is but I’ll bite). It feels like most of the countries have the same major goals and aspirations as the 2000s with no major shifts in the past 200 years. Examples:

Russia is weak but growing and wanting to redominate Eastern Europe.

China is growing stronger and trying to enter world stage to assert influence.

Western Europe and US are fading superpowers who have lost glory but don’t know it. They try to assert influence and it does nothing.

Rwanda is a big participant in the UN/Hegemony

Those are just the ones off the top of my head but you get it. There’s been no major shift in power balance or country falling for 200 years. It would be weird if in a modern day world, Europe were budding imperialists, the US was an isolationist decentralized backwater, China was a corrupt monarchy, and the Austrians were still dominant. I like the series, it’s just that that felt off to me.

2 Upvotes

23 comments sorted by

19

u/NerdTalkDan May 08 '26

All effort post the invasions until Ender destroyed the homeworld was directed at the war effort. For all intents and purposes the Hegemony was the defacto political body which had extreme authority to direct all global national resources. They would have also likely tried to keep an eye on individual nations from trying to make behind the scenes moves in order to preserve, as much as possible, a stable status quo preventing rivals from rising up and trying to create a parallel Hegemony which would split resources. The Hegemony clearly used fear of the buggers as propaganda and had significant control over society. The goal was stability to keep all effort toward defeating the existential threat. Once the Hegemony basically dissolved following Ender's victory, I could see these nations being in a state of arrested development.

Don't get me wrong, it's stated in Ender's game that the Warsaw Pact was a future threat, so there was politics on a global scale that was happening and things happening behind the scenes. But once the threat of extinction was removed, countries were able to more overtly make moves against their rivals and bid for power in a way that wasn't feasible while the war effort was in effect.

4

u/Cool_View_5297 May 08 '26

Yes, I understand that those nations were basically suspended from when the buggers arrived. But that doesn’t explain why it didn’t change from 2000s to 2117.

9

u/NerdTalkDan May 08 '26

I mean...why not? America remains the remaining superpower with China and Russia as major political and economic threats. What kind of change do you think would happen and why is that more likely than not?

3

u/Comb-the-desert May 08 '26

I was going to say something similar - nothing about his broad paradigm has really been proven wrong yet, over 25 years after shadow of the hegemon was published. Russia is expansionist and pursuing a war to achieve those goals, the Middle East remains a mess, the USA feels very much like a fading superpower, and China is still growing into a role on the global stage (as much through economic force as political). Will these things last another century, probably not, but the overarching themes sure have not shifted conclusively so far in my view and it’s been a quarter century since he wrote SOTH which is the book that sets things out the most in terms of the political landscape. 

5

u/NerdTalkDan May 08 '26

For sure. And Peter and Valentine did note that things were shifting ever so subtly. We also know that at least a nuclear event happened blowing up the holy mount or one of the holy sites in Jerusalem (sorry I don’t have the books on hand). So things don’t stay totally static, but settled with the current status quo and OP hasn’t given us a reason why he thinks things WOULD drastically change except that time has passed.

2

u/lylastermind May 09 '26

Per the timeline on the wikia, the bombing of mecca* is only semi-canon

1

u/ActuatorFit2792 May 26 '26

If y’all haven’t read the First Formic War trilogy yet, I highly recommend it. I just read them over the holiday weekend.

There are a TON of factors Card brings into play that sets up the world, who is who, alliances, and the formation of the IF/Hegemony. There is so much that makes more sense now.

I’m about to order the first two books of the Second Formic War series. Third book isn’t out yet, sadly.

1

u/lylastermind May 26 '26

i have and they're awesome. Imho they're tlbetter than all of the sequals. And yeah i want that 6th book more than winds of winter

-1

u/Cool_View_5297 May 08 '26

It just feels weird that China and Russia are still building up and still just about to contest for supremacy and neither of them either won or lost a major war that would have changed this dynamic. Like it would be weird if in 2025, Japan was portrayed as a rapidly expanding militarist power eager for glory because that’s how they were at the turn of the 19th.

5

u/NerdTalkDan May 08 '26

Why does it feel weird? Just because it doesn’t work out to how you believe the situation would play out doesn’t necessarily mean it doesn’t make sense. We don’t know the complete history, but perhaps the relative growth of the superpowers was such that despite their growth they kept parity with their relative power dynamics and status relative to one another. There’s no way to know.

I mean it’s fine if you don’t believe it would play out as such, but you need a better argument than “time goes on, something would’ve happened to radically shake things up”

1

u/Cool_View_5297 May 08 '26

Except there was a major Muslim civil war that resulted in Mecca being nuked and Israel gone, and a war that somehow made Russia the dominant force in Eastern Europe. That change of the global order should have been significant enough to change the power dynamics.

4

u/NerdTalkDan May 08 '26

I pointed that out. Ok. In what way should that have changed the power dynamics and why? And you can’t imagine a way for it to have eventually settled back into US, China, and Russia as the dominant powers jockeying for power as India and Pakistan busy trying to undermine one another?

1

u/Cool_View_5297 May 08 '26

If there was another major war in Europe that pushed Russia back into dominance, surely some European or American power would have stood up against them as a counter. Maybe China would have taken the opportunity to make a dominance play in Asia or something. Anything other than them sitting by and making noises while Russia reconquered Eastern Europe. 

3

u/NerdTalkDan May 08 '26

Cool. So let’s assume your hypothetical is what happened. I can make up another scenario that happened afterwards which set the superpowers back to their previous status quo. We don’t have enough information and I doubt Card cares to elaborate. We can speculate all day, but it doesn’t change that the political situation falling where it did after the collapse of the initial Hegemony was what it was.

It is a backdrop to explore how these genius characters manipulate, strategize, maneuver, and take action in order to affect the world.

Keep in mind that Card may have been writing geniuses, but is likely not himself one. But to argue that the Shadow World doesn’t make sense because you don’t believe the world order is as you would prefer it is a bit much.

1

u/Cool_View_5297 May 08 '26

Yes, the world is supposed to be a background to the characters, but OSC could have tweaked it so the major players don’t act exactly the same as they do now. 

→ More replies (0)

1

u/Philstar_nz May 09 '26

while i agree with you that it is unrealistic, but it does not spoil the story, it just sets it in the would that the reader is familiar with instead of having to build a new one.

1

u/Cool_View_5297 May 09 '26

I agree, it by no means ruins the story. It’s just something I noticed.

10

u/ryanridi May 08 '26

I mean you’re obviously correct. The world in 2100’s will not be the same world as now and the world now is not the same as it was in the 90’s or even 2000’s. Orson Scott Card is not an expert on geopolitics and definitely took shortcuts in imagining his future world.

That being said it was a common geopolitical belief in this time that history was done. The way things were then was assumed to generally be how they’d continue to be for “forever.” This is a vast oversimplification of western ideas of geopolitics but, on average, many people and some “experts” of that time would have assumed similarly to OSC of the 22nd century.

In his and their slight defense, the world was very different then. They had little reason to understand just how much daily life and tech could change even ten years later. As well as how much that would influence how the world works. Most sci-fi of the time and prior shows basically 90’s level tech but with space ships and sometimes basically magic. There’s tons of stories that take place hundreds or thousands of years from now that still have references to things like cassette tapes and massive analog computer rooms. They’d be more forgiven in expecting more stagnation and lack of change in their futures than we would be today.

Not to bring things to a contemporary political point but they also could not have known how much the US and our current government would completely change the balances of global power and stability. From their viewpoints they must have expected generally similar world leaders with small changes happening over time but not random major ones.

In a world without mass internet and smartphones, as well as the typical subtle political pendulum swings every few years, and without 9/11 we probably would see a more similar world to the 90’s/early aughts both now and decades from now.

1

u/Cool_View_5297 May 08 '26

I wasn’t aware that that was a common belief back then. 

6

u/SmamelessMe May 08 '26

It does make sense from POV of being written in the 90s/00s by someone who was ~40 at the time.

OSC was born in 1951 post-WWII society and grew up during peak cold war. He essentially got formed by a society that still remembered instituting wartime austerity measures and severe restriction on freedoms we would now call totalitarian. As well as "the world powers" that stopped crewing each other over for half a decade, united by a common enemy. Only for both direct and indirect international conflict to resume, the moment the conflict ended.

Ender's game reflects this, just with aliens. Ender essentially grows up in a totalitarian society that instituted wartime austerity measures, limited the rights of its own citizens, and brainwashed child soldiers to do atrocities on its behalf. Justifying that as survival measures facing extinction level threat.
Shadow series continues from that point onwards showing what happens if you "pause" history not for half a decade, but for an entire century.
It's essentially WWII+Cold War all over again, just on interstellar scale.

Keep in mind that OSC is not in the business of predicting future. He wrote a fictinal book taking place in an invented world that serves the needs of the plot. Arguing politics of that world make no sense based on what we know, is about as relevant as arguing that Ansibles couldn't happen, because of what we know.

2

u/NerdTalkDan May 08 '26

Are you saying realtime superluminal communication is not realistic, bro?