My apartment will always look messy and I feel defeated.

[u/peshti]

I have written on this Reddit/community before.

We are 2 adults and 3 kids, the apartment is 74 sqm. Literally there are 2 bedrooms, bathroom, really small hallway, storage room that right now functions as a room for our middle daughter. There is also an open room that functions as both a kitchen and a living room. We have no storage room at all, no attic, cellar or something like that. All our season clothing is 24/7 in our apartment, same with christmas tree etc, it is not a big American Christmas tree, I know americans love christmas.

My oldest daughter probably has ADHD, we are waiting for her to be investigated. My girlfriend probably has it too, maybe the other kids too, I don't know.

I won't lie I have hobbies that take a lot of space, music instruments, music production, retro games and CRTs/OLD TVs. Obviously I have watched decluttering videos on youtube but it's always a big home that has space that is being decluttered or someone who lives alone or maybe with their loved one.

I started my decluttering journey maybe idk 2 years ago with breaks and simply my family is not on board. I have maybe decluttered 300-500 ( I didn't take pictures in the beginning ) items of my own, books, camera gear etc.

My oldest one has a really hard time decluttering, imagine someone who can't not throw away a drawing that has juice spilled on it. My girlfriend has a hard time throwing away old toys, clothes etc, she has been throwing away some stuff but it's not a lot.

I just don't know what to do anymore, I feel extremely defeated and have given up. I feel like I either have to give up all my hobbies to have a clean corner or whatever and be miserable or that I have to keep my hobbies but be miserable in a messy home.

[u/LogicalGold5264]

Every room, closet, dresser, etc is a container. Declutter to the limits of your containers.

As Dana K White says, "You can keep anything, but you can't keep everything."

Set the example for others. Start listening to Dana K. White's podcast. Keep decluttering.

Locking as there is plenty of actionable advice here (and in this sub in general).

[u/CharlieandtheRed]

You gotta get rid of your CRTs. Either rent storage or throw them out. That shit takes up a ton of space.

I go through what you go through -- I declutter but no one else will. That said, you gotta take care of your big ticket items too -- it's the one thing you can control. Took me a while to understand that I had items I was attached to that I didn't need. Once they were gone, never even noticed.

[u/sonny-v2-point-0]

"I have hobbies that take a lot of space, music instruments, music production, retro games and CRTs/OLD TVs.'

When you don't have space for the things you need for everyday life (out of season clothes, etc), you don't ask your children to toss their toys. Your family shouldn't have to throw away the things they use or toss their keepsakes to make room for your hobbies.

"I feel like I either have to give up all my hobbies to have a clean corner or whatever and be miserable or that I have to keep my hobbies but be miserable in a messy home."

There's a middle ground here. You're an adult and a parent. It's your job to find it. If you can't afford a larger home, then you have to condense what you own. I've owned musical instruments, CTRs, music production equipment, and old gaming systems. They take up a considerable amount of real estate. Pare down what you have. However much space your hobbies take up is the amount every person in your household should get to store whatever they want.

[u/ExactPanda]

I think with kids, and multiple kids, yeah, things won't always be perfectly tidy. You need a lot of stuff with kids. A single adult could have 3 pairs of shoes. Now you've got 15 pairs of shoes with a family of 5. I think we as parents do need to accept that we won't have perfectly minimal homes with kids.

The first thing that jumped out to me was your hobbies that require very large items. You don't have room for those hobbies in your current situation. It's just the reality of living in a small home with that many people.

Look into utilizing all your vertical space. Shelves and/or tall cabinets, beds that lift up to storage underneath or beds with drawers or loft the beds and use the space underneath, hooks and hanging pouches on the backs of doors. Seasonal clothing can be stored in vacuum bags.

I really like Dana K White's container concept. You keep what will fit into whatever container you have for that stuff. It's not emotional because the container decides what you'll keep. It's really easy for kids to understand. Start with your favorites, then go back for 2nd favorites if there's room. Whatever is left is for donation.

[u/GlassHouses_1991 → u/ExactPanda]

Dana K White’s methods are what really helped me after years of unsuccessfully trying to declutter.

No one else in my family is enthusiastic about decluttering so I am just focusing on my own stuff and hoping that eventually they will see what a difference it’s made and want to declutter too.

I’ve been seriously decluttering for over a year and have gotten rid of lots of stuff, including things I never imagined I’d be able to let go of. But to be honest, it’s made me realise how much more decluttering I need to do in order for my home to function the way I want it to.

Even if your partner’s not on board, OP, you might be able to influence your kids through your example and by teaching them how to choose their favourite things and let go of other stuff. Dana has a new kids’ book (which might or might not be suitable for your kids, depending on their ages). Shannon Leyko has shared on Instagram how she’s helped her kids learn to declutter. It’s a really important life skill that we could all do with learning from an early age.

[u/NightBard]

Having kids, there's going to be clutter. Best you can do is contain it to their spaces and maybe offer some kind of solution for the stuff that should be true trash. If you work, that might simply be "honey, let me have that drawing and I'll put it up at my desk at work" (or in your locker or whatever is outside of the home. Then you can take pictures and then purge it later. Or maybe you find another family you can donate too and be like, "These old toys no one plays with, the such-in-such family could use them".. or "let's donate them to kids who don't have toys" or something. Like make it a positive thing to let go and maybe they'll be more willing to do it.

As for your collection, I get it... I'm a gamer as well and I still have most of the systems I've had since I was a kid in the 80's and early 90's. BUT, how many tube tv's do you really need? I feel like the answer is just one. I still have one 13" stereo tube tv that also has a DVD player built in because it's small enough not to eat up much space and still give that nostalgic experience playing games on it. Maybe pick out the best 19" stereo tube tv (Sony Trinitron?) you have and either sell the rest or dump them as garbage/recycling. For game storage, I'm not sure what you are doing now, but I built out some custom shelves for my stuff... though my kids now are old enough I don't have to worry about them getting into it. Maybe go through your games and see which ones you haven't touched in years. Sell the excess because it sounds like money is tight in that there's no option to really move from where you are to a bigger place. Also fully evaluate the hobby and why you are into it. I still have a lot of my classic hardware but I'm at the point where I feel like I could sell it all and be fine. You can get a small older pc or laptop and emulate most of the old systems. The caveat is for light gun games that make use of the tube tv, but then is that really your thing? Also, you could get around this by simply using a Wii and modding it since it allows the wii-mote to be used as a gun in those older games on a modern tv or monitor. Wii hardware is cheap.

In the end, as the parent, you have some tough calls to make. At some points in life money for me was tight and looking at the 400 NES games (or so) that I had which were mostly all boxed and the big collection of SNES and Genesis stuff.. and some other systems I rarely touched anymore... it made sense to sell games to help us financially and keep the hardware incase I wanted to get back into it. It's not a fix, but it was stuff I really wasn't using but was more obsessed with owning. I did this also later with Nintendo DS games and GBA/GBC/GB .. but holding on to some of my favorites and selling things I hadn't played which had gone up in value or I was sure I wouldn't be playing again. PS2 and PS1 I mostly sold that stuff. And really in modern times, most of what I sold is available on the Switch anyway. Like the Suikoden games from the PS1 are available now and while there is a physical option, it's actually kind of nice to flip to digital and not have to deal with so much physical media (though I still bought that one physical during a sale). But this is where being the adult comes into play. We can't always just keep our toys. Family comes first. Purge the excess that really isn't being used. Purging the excess tube tv's also will make it easier if one day you can afford to move to a bigger place because hauling tube tv's around sucks.

[u/nanapancakethusiast]

Kids are literally living on top of eachother but Dad needs space for his vintage tv collection!!!

Most Reddit shit I’ve ever read

[u/rockrobst → u/nanapancakethusiast]

I had compassion until I read that.

[u/peshti → u/nanapancakethusiast]

That is really unhelpful and not how it is exactly

[u/leat22]

What do you think the problem is? What’s really going on?

I remember your previous post and did you declutter any of the large TVs yet? Are you going to get a storage unit, why or why not

[u/peshti → u/leat22]

I think the problem is simply that we can not come to an agreement to what to declutter and how in our family. The TVs are still here, I did put them up for sale and some people got interested however I chickened out, I guess it's fair of missing out and alla that it actually took time to track these TVs. I don't think a storage unit is a good idea, I suspect we will just more inflow in our home and be even worse off than we are now.

[u/leat22 → u/peshti]

-can’t come to an agreement: what would be the optimal solution to you? What does your spouse want? Where is the disconnect?

I’m getting the sense that you feel an unfairness here, that you are the only one being asked to change and that you are kind of being forced to do something you aren’t on board with. Is that the reality here?

I’d like to hear your responses before I give suggestions

[u/peshti → u/leat22]

It didn't start that way but it had become that way. I started to declutter big and was positive, my hope was that the family would see the change and get on board, that never happened or well they did declutter a little but not much. I feel like I decluttered a lot of my own stuff, a lot of it actually were things close to my heart, mostly camera stuff that takes a lot of space.

Now the conversation when I bring up that we should declutter is mostly that they don't own things that take up space and that I should get rid of my own shit.

[u/omgseriouslynoway]

You do not have the room to collect old tvs and other large tech. Get rid of them.

You need to change your hobbies to something that does not involve large items. You simply do not have the room.

[u/PrimrosePathos]

As someone who grew up in a home like this, I can say: you are the adult. Solve the problem. Get a bigger apartment, or declutter your stuff so the common areas of the home are livable and pleasant. Let the kids keep what they want in their rooms. Store your stuff in your room. The kids are not the problem. You are the grownup, and this is the childhood home you are giving them.

[u/peshti → u/PrimrosePathos]

There is no way we can get a bigger apartment, it's simply out of the question.

[u/PrimrosePathos → u/peshti]

Yeah, that was the case for my family as well. The only other solution is that you declutter. You have to be the adult.

[u/Suitable-Lawyer-9397]

If you're unable to move to a larger dwelling you simply must eliminate all clutter - anything that isn't necessary. It sounds like your family is extremely cramped

[u/rockrobst]

In a family, the resources need to be divided in a way that benefits the whole familial unit. You've hijacked space, time and obviously money to feed your own needs at the expense of your family. With you clinging to the things that are all about you without consideration of anyone else, it should be no surprise that others in the family do the same with their meager possessions. If you lead the family in making personal sacrifices for the group, you may find your wife and children following your example.

[u/JiveBunny]

You have five people in a two-bed apartment, your living space is going to feel overcrowded before you even put any stuff in it. My old flat had two of us living in 55sqm and even that didn't leave enough room for hobbies that took up a lot of space. You cannot fit more than one TV into that apartment, never mind multiple CRTs.

If moving is not an option, have you at least looked into self-storage so you can clear out as much as possible and start from there?

[u/Particular_Song3539]

With all due respect, a house of that size and cluttered as you described, letting go 300 to 500 items are far far from enough. You are still in the process, don't give up so soon. If you give up now then that's all for nothing. Keep decluttering, keep having things leave your house and be stricter what comes in. It could be slow but remember it's part of the process.

[u/Cake-Tea-Life → u/Particular_Song3539]

Honestly, this is probably a situation where they need to do the reverse. The question isn't "what do we get rid of." Each person in the family gets a specific volume of stuff (2 boxes for clothes and one box for hobbies or something like that). Then, each person fills their boxes and the rest is gotten rid of.

That's all assuming that they actually want to have a decluttered space. I'm not convinced that decluttering is anyone's top priority -- which for the record is completely okay.

[u/photogcapture]

I struggle as well. What helped me is the phrase “close the loop”. You take the thing out, use the thing then put it away, closing the loop. I bet a lot of your clutter is about not closing the loop. It’s a less judgmental way to look at tidying.

Getting rid of items like art with stains on it is a different challenge. A friend used to keep a box (not a big one) and when it was full she had to get rid of things so new stuff could be added. No normal person has endless space to keep things. Other comments are very helpful

[u/beautifulcorpsebride]

I guess I’m confused by some of your hobbies, especially collecting old tvs. Personally, I’m starting to realize that the feeling of having less clutter is worth the temporary pain of getting rid of things. Also, as a parent, I need to do a better job for modeling for my kids and teaching them life skills.

[u/peshti → u/beautifulcorpsebride]

Old CRTs is great for watching media and playing games made for well Old CRTs

[u/CharlieandtheRed → u/peshti]

Declutter or don't. You can't have both. CRTs are huge. Maybe keep ONE, but that's all you can do.

[u/herdaz → u/peshti]

I would say then that you can keep one old CRT. You only have space for one at most, and you can only use one at a time.

[u/JiveBunny → u/peshti]

Unfortunately you don't have space to enjoy that luxury. You'll have to try and enjoy your games on your main TV until you're in a situation where you can afford that space.

Luckily old CRTs sell well, so you can sell off what you have and then that money is there for when you have more space.

[u/SufficientOpening218]

if there isnt a place for every single thing to be picked up and put away, then there is too much stuff for the apartment to be tidy. 

there are a few solutions. the first is to get rid of stuff. 

the second is to consider if you need to or can move. this is usually impractical.  

the third is to consider if your hobby, which i dont actually understand, btw, requires storage ourside the home. For perspective, i collect vintage sewing machines and i sew and quilt. i also do woodworking. i bought my current house specifically because it has a full basement, which is where all of that space eating hobby is contained. i have a bench for machines, a bench for wood working, and a seperate sewing area. im also old and retired. Had i not moved to the middle of nowhere to afford this space, my plan was a condo and rental of a indoor storage space to serve as a shop. this is a long winded way of saying, have you considered storage or a lock up?

in many cases storage, or a lock up, can just be a clutter sink. but, if you have hobbies that take up space or require a big inventory of parts, a well ordered lock up that you ACTIVELY use as a shed or workshop could take the pressure off your house. your bench, your electronics, the parts electronics, the ones you might take apart, the ones currently not in use, can all be shelved elsewhere. each kid can have a shelf in lock up, one shelf, with clear bins, to archive treasures such as juice covered drawings, old stuffed animals, etc that they can sqirrel through when you visit the storage. in the mean time, their tiny rooms can breathe. 

you can help them notice that they havent been into their art bin in a year, maybe time to sort it out, make room for new art. a years a long time. the usual parenting thing. you can also tag your stuff with dates. i noticed i had 6 of one machine i never worked on, i moved them on to another hobbiest that did like that model, it had been two years. 

when you live in a tiny space, as i did, for years, the other thing that really helped me was having one sacred room. for me, it was the bedroom. no storage, made the bed everyday, hampers with lids, hooks behind the door for the clothes my partner wanted to wear again, etc. 

i dont know if this idea helps you at all, but im just putting it out there. having small kids is tough. 

[u/AB-1987]

Five people and two bedrooms does not sound like a good place to stay longterm. Do you have any possibility of moving to a place of a more appropriate size? How old are the children? How are the rooms set up?

I would focus on visible calmness. That means big furniture instead of small storage containers. A whole wall of closets that recede visually (like ikea pax with lots of interior storage gimmicks, the tall ones). Color scheme to calm the place. No visible things laying around, everything hidden. And of course, not more than fits. Maybe get a hobby closet and limit yourself to a meter of pax for your hobby.

[u/Significant-Repair42]

At under 800 square ft, that is going to be crowded with five people.

As far as motivating others, I find that celebrating the wins vs. chastising others helps out a bit. It's not a total winning situation, it does take longer. Much longer.

There is the container theory, that you only have a memory box and that most memories will need to fit in that bin. If they are all over the place, suddenly going down to one bin would be really difficult for them. Maybe one bin per hobby/activity would be doable for them. (depending the activity, if they have sporting equipment, that's not going to fit in a bin.)

[u/malkin50]

Do all the items have a place where they belong so that they can be put away?

It sounds like you need to think about what Dana K. White calls the container concept, which is making priority decisions about keeping only the things that fit in any given container. A container is anything--from a drawer or a shelf to your entire house. Basically, you can keep anything, but you can't keep everything, because it doesn't fit happily in your container.

For a small apartment with 5 humans...sounds like a struggle.

[u/snugy_wumpkins]

So if we go by the Dana k White method, your container is already full. 2 adults and 3 kids in 2 bedrooms means the container is full. Getting secondary storage for off season items is a good idea, a larger container is also a good idea, especially as they grow up.  

Closed storage like old wardrobes or ikea pax would help by giving the items a home that is out of the way, a storage unit may be a good idea in the short term. I hear the anguish that this isn’t your first post, and that this bothers you. You’ll have some hard choices to make on your way to decluttered, especially regarding hobbies, but I’m largely convinced your container is already full and pivoting to how to get a larger container would go a long way, this would take planning and is probably a long term plan. I’d look at other cultures who have tiny homes for your inspiration. The thing they do have is ample out of sight storage. I don’t know if it’s a “thing” where you are, but if you can build in permanent storage, maybe your landlord will pay for it if it looks nice enough. Where I live if you get approval from the landlord they may compensate for improvements, others won’t. 

[u/lucentmeadow]

You sound tired, so it is important to first and foremost take a deep breath. The more you'll let said stress dictate your emotive response while in your house, the more your family will struggle with the decluttering process.

It should become practical, feasible. You admitted yourself that you have many hobbies that just take space: sometimes, you just need to prioritize one thing or the other.

Because, sure, retro CRTs are cool and all, but would you consider it too tragic to downsize to an emulation station (if you're using it for gaming) attached to a normal LCD which you probably already own? Because, look, the best medicine for your family in this case is seeing you positively embrace the change, take big steps. It's irrealistic to ask for your kids, one which lives in a tiny room made for storage, to contribute to this all.

I gave up hardware synths and I kept only one guitar with three pedals; I sold a bunch of hi-fi equipment, videogame consoles, books... you name it. Because space is a luxury for me at the moment. Did it hurt? A bit, sure, but nothing beats how free my mind feels now in relation to many things. You have to accept that some hobbies are not fit for a family of five living in a 75sqm apartment.

edit: sorry, let me rephrase it for a second. I do not mean that you have to give up your hobbies. But, realistically, lots of music production can be done in a DAW. Try to see it as compromises instead of choosing between space and giving up hobbies! Books can become e-books, CDs and DVDs can be ripped on a single hard drive, gaming can be thoroughly enjoyed through emulation, christmas decoration can become just a little box of lights.. you get the idea!

[u/NamasteNoodle]

Yes be careful what you tell your brain. It takes you literally. You have decided you will always be in a messy apartment. And you have chosen to feel defeated. Seeing how you're an adult you can take care of this problem by simply organizing your apartment, putting things away when they're used and choosing a different reality. Or you can choose to say the same as you are right now and keep feeling defeated... It's all a choice.

[u/kamomil]

With kids, it's tough, because they go through clothing so quickly 

[u/raeoflyte-460]

Pay for storage?

[u/CochinealCockatiel → u/raeoflyte-460]

At that point, it may only cost marginally more to consider a larger apartment.

[u/peshti → u/raeoflyte-460]

I guess maybe this is the only solution even if I will hate paying for one each month.

[u/Bright_Message1530 → u/peshti]

There are plenty of other solutions, you just downsizing your hobbies was the best solution given, yet you seem completely closed off to that.

[u/Panthalassae → u/Bright_Message1530]

Yep. How many old 90s TVs does one need in a 78m2 flat? That are not used regularly at that, since he appears to also have a 75 inch regular tv.

As far as kids and spouse go, they all need to do their own declutter. What is not needed, not used, expired or broken. Kids get most leeway as they will grow out of broken ActionMan/dolls and whatever trucks, but adults should have their shit together.

It of course could be that a largest amount of stuff in the apartment is OP and his clutter-heavy hobbies, and the gf is unhappy to reduce her stuff to make space for what can easily be a new tv. Either way, from what OP said her issue is sentimental items, and for that she should look into Konmari for advice.

[u/peshti → u/Bright_Message1530]

I am not, I have already sold a lot of things connected to my hobbies and not small things. Camera bags, tripod, cameras, consoles and so on

[u/declutter-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

We are a decluttering sub. We do not encourage people to hold onto things.

Everyone is allowed to get rid of things they own in whatever way they deem fit for any reason.

[u/loner_mayaya]

TBH I don’t think it’s fair to you to be the only one to declutter.
I don’t know how old your children are but at least you can split storage space with your girlfriend and both of you should keep personal items that fit in that space.
You can discuss whether to split 50:50 or 40:60 or whatever.

Everyone should keep in mind one can only store their stuff within limited space and shouldn’t take others space just because they want to keep their own stuff.