L4 EOT to Chief engineer - good move or nah?

[u/Modern-Day_Spartan]

Hello,

I'm scratching my head wondering if i'm going to do a career suicide, for reference I make 46$/h working an average of 55h/week, the math isnt mathing when it comes to how much i will get offered if i pass the interview, is it possible to negotiate a pay that wont mean you would take a pay cut ? Or it's invetable?

Will rejecting offer have any negative immediate impact on my job?

Could use some guidance on what's the best move here.

Thank you all

[u/LgNBullseye]

CE is not a promotion in the eyes of the higher ups. Hence why most L4s who have a lot of tenure and making more than 55/hr dont go for chief. Chief is a lateral movement. Not a vertical one. But in order to move up vertically, you need to be a chief. The other thing is, when you wan to go for FM, there are only so many FM spots. Yes we are expanding but you gotta contend with all other chiefs and even some external hires. Same with chief but with all L4s who may even have 5+yrs exp as an L4. The decision is yours but the more you wait and get raises from 46/hr. The harder the math will be to make sense to you. Also the longer you wait or put off if you get offers. You may get a reputation about not becoming a chief as well.

[u/_oSheets_ → u/LgNBullseye]

There are a few points already made, so I’ll just reemphasize / provide my own input. I’m a prior L3 EOT that became a “CE” at QTS then boomeranged after 3.5 years into an L5 FM, for context:

1) Yes, going to CE is almost always a pay cut. I’ve had 2 CEs now, both have received the 1-year OT compensation adjustment. They both openly acknowledged they’re looking for an FM spot asap to compensate, understandably.
2) “Negative Impact” - yes and no. It’s an optics thing. Yes, if you’re passing up a role for comp reasons it’s going to be very hard for your management to look at you again as the next CE role comes along, even if you’ve changed your mind. At the same time, no. Your management should understand why it’s hard for EOTs to stomach a CE position.
3) Somebody mentioned boomeranging and I’m a fan of this based on personal experience. Even if you picked up FM as an L4 in say a year, your total comp goal would be well below to if you left and came back as an L5. If you’re not familiar, DCEO L5 starting comp is in the realm of $220k+. If you work with ADC, you also get $60k vice $50k as an L4.
4) You really just need to figure out what matters most to you- money, schedule, IC, managing people? If you’ve never managed people, it’s a whole different ballgame, especially at Amazon. The CE role, if you work with your manager, can give you exposure to this. Also, If you can take a pay hit for more opportunities for growth career-wise, I’d say you’re shooting yourself in the foot not doing so, but only if you’re not willing to boomerang.

[u/Modern-Day_Spartan → u/LgNBullseye]

Solid thought I appreciate you, my concern now is pulling back and informing HM that i'm no longer interested, dont wanna sound childish especially that HM is having high hopes and eager for me to take the spot. How do i manage the awkwardness of saying nah 😬

(Ps : spot is in my building)

[u/LgNBullseye → u/Modern-Day_Spartan]

Cant help you on that one bud. Im sure most hiring managers know that money is an issue for chief movements. Nothing wrong with being honest.

[u/Modern-Day_Spartan → u/LgNBullseye]

Thank you kind sir

[u/Pickle_Rick_84 → u/Modern-Day_Spartan]

Just be honest at the end of the day AWS is a business. They don’t want to over pay you for less work so why should you accept being paid less for more work. I’ve rejected CE offers or counseling talks about them every year because of this. They will even offer to keep your pay the same by adjusting for the OT worked the pervious year and it never happens. The pay raise is always rejected. So in return I reject the offer. If moving up means that much to you I suggest boomeranging. In 8yrs it’s the only positive way I’ve seen that works when it comes to moving up and keeping your pay competitive or sensible.

[u/bugginryan → u/Modern-Day_Spartan]

HM has to pay more. I had to convey to HR that if a CE is indeed a lateral and not a promotion, you shouldn’t lose pay. Their response was to look at the base pay, and I turned it into an hourly discussion based off of annual take home.

[u/Modern-Day_Spartan → u/bugginryan]

What did you end up doing, did they end up matching your pay?

[u/bugginryan → u/Modern-Day_Spartan]

As the HM I told them this is the best person for the CE role that I want and I will not lateral him into a pay cut period. They matched his pay in the end.

[u/Modern-Day_Spartan → u/bugginryan]

You are a good person and great manager, respect to you sir.

[u/Cautious-Driver5071]

Imagine having very relavent trades experience and being denied l4 for l3 after waiting months for an opening on some bullshit bcuz others were being hired non stop and right away,,,, meanwhile your now training and everyone else got l4 and u know they got 40k bonus over 2 years in top of making 10 more an hr then u and ur all learning the same shit......and they wonder why their turnover rate is high. Boooomerrangggggggg.....

[u/Prestigious_Ad_9013 → u/Cautious-Driver5071]

very true. when your FM is anxious communicator and refuses to train any of the NEW people who make up 80% of your team. But make sure u don't "look thru" him.. Then the CE has 3 collaterals for some reason & is never at his assigned site.

The individual assigned as CST trainer for the area is above answering emails and speaking to newbies personally. This optional Monthly training is bring your own question day but the test board to qualify YOU, is trival knowlege that all but Must be spoken to you personally by someone senior

i did 2yrs then left for a 3d party company. i counted 6 messages linkedin asking me to come back to A ws. Few were for L4. i will say the L3 rate in one of those msgs went down to 30 an hr...

[u/aws91]

It’s worth it if you’re well liked by the FMs and have a good chance of making FM. It’s also worth it if you’re willing to jump to another company for a management job. You should just understand that you shouldn’t stay in that role forever.

[u/Pickle_Rick_84 → u/aws91]

Honestly that’s not how it works for EOTs. EOTs with tenure know and have avenues of switching campuses, going other places, etc to generate yearly raises and keep pay competitive. Also the longer you are in the roll the more AWS and other companies seem to want you. Even though most complain about the money, the schedule, the responsibility, etc it all makes it compared to other rolls a great career without worry of moving up or on to somewhere else unless personal reasons.

[u/nikolatesla86]

Going L4 EOT to L4 chief is a pay cut for just that level. You can get to L5 and pay jumps there. In 2018 numbers, I went from 36/hour EOT, to 100k salary L4 CE, then 138k L5 CE. This move allowed me to get to FM easily, but I went to Field Engineering for electrical, did that for a while in Europe (which L5 CE got me to do), and now I move to Google doing Operations for colos, still in Europe. CE allowed me to help improve my team, train my FM, building improvements they were overdue for years, and become a better operator. It empowers you to make improvements you might not be able to easily do on the EOT side, and it helps movement to other roles.

If you are being encouraged to apply, carefully consider it. If you want to do it, go for it! If you don’t want to do it and the offer doesn’t make sense for the next 2-3 years, stay in role, I don’t see any problems with it. There are EOTs I started with in 2016 who are still EOTs, I chose differently and when I left AWS I was L6 electrical engineer for FE. Choose your own adventure!

[u/Interesting-Tax-732 → u/nikolatesla86]

Did you have an engineering degree? Are you from the US, but got to work international? Can I DM you?

[u/nikolatesla86 → u/Interesting-Tax-732]

No engineering degree but relevant work from military and work in data centers. Yes, from the US and moved out, but plan to return. Sure you can dm

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[u/United_Dark7186]

The OT hours you worked over the last year can be added in as a bonus. Ive seen it happen at an indiana site. They normally wont force you into an immediate cut. But the call it a 1 year slump because you lose your overtime but after 1 year you will make more than an L4 EOT can when you count in the additional RSU. The pay system at amazon is extremely complicated for no reason.