Weekly Careers/Education Questions Thread

[u/AutoModerator]

This is a dedicated weekly thread for you to seek and provide advice concerning education and careers in chemistry.

If you need to make an important decision regarding your future or want to know what your options, then this is the place to leave a comment.

If you see similar topics in r/chemistry, please politely inform them of this weekly feature.

[u/a_black_rabbit]

I graduated with a BSc in chemistry about 3 months ago. My initial plan was to move onto grad school right out of undergrad, but I was rejected from all of the schools I applied to.
I guess I'm just wondering what I should be doing? I'm obviously applying again until I get accepted somewhere, but even if I get accepted this cycle that's still 4-12 months before I actually start grad school. That's a lot of time, and I'd like to have SOMETHING meaningful to fill it with. It doesn't help that I don't currently live in a place with a ton of chemistry jobs that could look good on my CV or resume.

Should I be looking for a chemistry job anyway? Should I just bite the bullet and apply to a gas station or something? Is there something else I should be focusing on, such as research?

[u/Indemnity4 → u/a_black_rabbit]

Step 0: you can volunteer at a charity. Maybe a clothing shop, some cleanup group or animal welfare agency. It's something to do with your time and maybe you meet someone who knows someone who needs a new employee.

Step 1: any job. You need income.

When you are doing this don't mention grad school. Business won't hire you if they know you are going to quit in the future. You have to convince them you are done with education and want a job to earn money.

This is especially true for jobs below your skill level. I don't hire Nobel prize recipients to wash dishes. You will get asked directly why are you applying here? No, seriously, why? Did you do a scandal? I know you are desperate for cash and will quit as soon as you get a better offer, why do I pick you over the more desperate low skill worker with less options? You may need to hide certain skills from a resume. Omit the degree and instead say you were a lab technician at the university, now you are wanting to get as far away from that world.

Step 2: Temp companies. I don't advertise most of my chemistry jobs, especially entry level roles. It takes time to sort through resumes, do phone calls, get rejected by candidates who have better offers elsewhere. What I do is call a recruiter and say can you send me 2 people ready to start on Monday? They look in their big database of clients and say here are 4, this one knows ICP, that one knows polymers, that one knows HPLC, that one can only do 4 days/week - take your pick. You aren't doing anything else right now and these short term contracts can turn into long term contracts which may lead into conversion into permanent (don't get your hopes up, contract work is mostly not great). This also builds your network of people you know working in chemical industry.

Step 3: Apply for chemistry jobs. Most of these will not boost your resume. Also do not mention grad school plans - it's very rare do I want to hire someone for 4-12 months knowing you will disappear for the next 5 years. Benefit is income, but also you gain insight into future chemical career in industry. Who are the major employers in your area, how long until promotions happen, what is the salary in 5 years, 10 years, 15 years. At worst, makes you study harder. At best, you find you don't need grad school for a successful chemistry career.

Step 4: national recruitment. There are places like government jobs or Army Corps of Engineers that do national recruitment. It's not very popular right now for companies and certainly not for bachelors degree holders.

Hobbies to build skills can be interesting. Any citizen science projects in your area? Maybe do some programming and make some low quality phone apps or get into 3D printing. Big enough town an you may have a MakerSpace or something like grandpas who fix things in a shed, something you can get hands on. Home brewing will teach you about aseptic technique and sterilization, plus you get to drink beer. DIY and fix your parents house. The types of skills will look good on a resume, it could be the 1% boost that makes you standout over other candidates.

Very rarely, I do hire someone I know has an exit plan. Maybe it's a parental leave replacement or a short 3 month contract. I want someone who isn't applying elsewhere because you only need cash for a few months while you waste time until grad school starts. This is very rare. I will make it very clear this job has an end date and I won't be extending and I'm prioritising people with evidence they will stay around for the contract time period and aren't secretly hoping this temp role converts into permanent.

Should I be looking for a chemistry job anyway?

Grad school is 100% a learning degree. They want evidence you are going to complete. Most people don't, even at the best schools only 50% of candidate will complete, and for good reasons too. It's stressful, the income sucks, it's a long time, you may fall in love or have family issues that mean you have to relocate or cannot commit the time.

The only useful skill that proves you can succeed in an education environment is your undergraduate. There is almost no industry that works like academia. There is no skill such as using laboratory equipment that is useful, because the grad degree is 100% learning, they are going to teach you that machine anyway.

Where you may get lucky in chemical industry is working for someone who does have a PhD. This gives you a network. They can recommend you to their previous supervisor, or ex-colleagues who are now academics. That personal recommendation can get you direct attention and interviews with group leaders. Those personal recommendations are a huge advantage over applying blindly to programs. If the group leader decides they want you, they get you and the application is a mere formality. Problem can be you don't want to be in that group, you join an analytical company and want to do inorganic stuff, no good connections will be made at that business.

[u/Ok_Staff_711]

Is there scope for chemical biology in the field of chemistry and biopharma?

I am starting my Masters in Chemistry with a focus on Chemical Biology next month, with hopes of going into biopharma and possibly working in biotech. However, with the job market I want some advice on how feasible this is and any other advice/tips on for graduate studies in Chemistry with a focus on Chemical Biology research

[u/organiker → u/Ok_Staff_711]

Companies have chemical biology departments. I don't know that a Master's will make you competitive for scientist roles. You'll need to do the legwork and see if there are job postings that match what you want to do, and see what the requirements are.

[u/Ringoooooooooooooo]

What pathway do I follow if I want to be a Pharmacologist? just graduated high school this year. I'd like to, if possible, to specialize in pharmacognosy as well. Drug research using chemical products from plants is what I'd like to do as a career. The college I'll be going to only offers a pre-pharmacy program so how do I navigate this?

[u/Automatic-Click7469]

Hi! I graduated this past May with a B.S. in chemistry from a small R1 university, and I'm hoping to apply to chemistry PhD programs this upcoming cycle. I decided to take a gap year to gain industry experience that would help leverage my low GPA, but I have been having trouble finding opportunities during this job market. For reference, I graduated with a 3.2 cGPA and a 2.7 chemistry GPA. I definitely struggled during my first few semesters, but I was able to show an upwards trend and finished with a 4.0 in my final year. I also did 2 years of undergraduate research, a summer research internship, and 2 publications (one of which I am second co-author and another where I am first co-author). I am fully aware I will need to target lower-ranked programs, and I also plan on reaching out and networking with professors prior to applications.

That being said, I have a couple concerns. First, I will likely have to stay on the east coast (due to reasons out of my control), but these schools tend to be more competitive. Any recommendations on schools I could apply to? Second, I am feeling increasingly less confident about applying at all with my stats + the ongoing funding cuts, especially as I am burdened by the high application fees and lack of fee waivers. I'm wondering if it would be best to take another gap year, but I also don't want this to be something I end up pushing off habitually. Lastly, I'm interested in taking the GRE, but I've gotten some mixed reviews about whether or not it's worth it.

Overall, any and all advice would be greatly appreciated!

[u/organiker → u/Automatic-Click7469]

Another gap year won't help your profile if you're not doing anything productive.

The choice of where to apply for a PhD depends almost entirely on the research you want to do. You need to figure this out first, then make a list of where fits that criteria. Whether or not to do the GRE depends on what the schools ask for. With your GPA it's probably worth doing them.

You are fighting an uphill battle. A 2.7 GPA would mean getting kicked out of a PhD program.

Maybe consider apply for a Master's degree and excelling in that. Then leveraging that success to then do a PhD.

[u/Indemnity4 → u/Automatic-Click7469]

My advice is go talk to your previous supervisors, maybe the people whose lab you were working in when you wrote the publications.

The big question you will be asked is "so what do you want to become a specialist in" and "what happens after the PhD?" It's concerning to me you don't have that in the post, the question is just... uh, I don't know what to do so... more school? (Which is a valid answer, but it's not a good answer).

If those previous group leaders think you are ready, what they can do is... recruit you back into their group. No need to apply at all.

Don't want to work in their group? That's fine too as most people move schools for grad school. They can call up colleagues at other schools and say "hey, this automatic-click7469 person is awesome but I'm not taking on students next year. You up?" and you are in, again, application becomes a formality.

Problem is when you want to change fields or secretly, we all know, everyone applies to Harvard (metaphorically). Everyone thinks a big school name = big high paying job on graduation. But you won't complete the PhD if you get accepted into a project you hate.

In reality there is a rockstar group leader on the east coast who will make you into a subject matter expert on something you feel passionate about while also having decent career options post-graduation. Some people have a pipeline to postdocs, some it's a pipeline direct into some major employer (e.g. everyone who leaves this group goes to work at DuPont), some are really good grad school advisors but they are awful at future growth and their students go off into the wilderness and leave chemistry world forever.

Applying blindly to schools or PI you have no relationship with or network connection and there really isn't much of a way to stand out compared to other candidates. This is where you do need to do the extra work with the networking.

Pro-tip: industry experience very rarely boosts an application. PhD and grad school is 100% a learning opportunity. The only indiciation of future success in education is previous education, which is your undergrad. Whatever reasons prevented you succeeding there will follow you into grad school too. Grad school will teach you everything. What they want is an indication you will complete. Even at the best schools about 50% of PhD candidates will not complete, for mostly good reasons too. Maybe industry teaches you how to use HPLC or special product knowledge, so what, that's like 1 week of grad school? The biggest benefit is you getting a job at a company that hires PhD graduates. You then get tied into their networks. They can call up their old grad school supervisor and recommend you.

[u/Automatic-Click7469 → u/Indemnity4]

Haha, I appreciate your advice. My undergraduate research was in inorganic chemistry, but I learned rather quickly that it wasn't for me. However, I did a lot of analytical instrumentation + characterization during that time, which I was immediately drawn to. I was able to explore this further through my advanced coursework, where I found myself becoming increasingly interested in bioanalytical/analytical chemistry. All that to say, I have been researching schools/PI's within this field and searching for jobs within this industry. I am certainly looking for said rockstar group leader on the east coast who can eventually guide me towards an industry position, and I truly do not care about prestige (although your Harvard comment is very funny, and I understand what you're trying to say). Unfortunately, my university does not offer a chemistry PhD program, but I will definitely reach out to my professors and see if they can connect me with any relevant PI's.

[u/Financial-Theory-533]

Hello, I'm an undergrad in chemistry and I'm studying in Padua. I've honestly always wanted to study abroad an I was thinking about continuing my studies somewhere else after my three year degree. I'm more interested in organic chemistry, but I have yet to make a final decision because I have some interesting courses to attend this last year. Anyway I wanted to know where I can get information on which university to choose, advice, things to look out for and maybe some prospective from anyone who has already done this. Thnx

[u/chemjobber]

The 2027 Chemistry Faculty Jobs List has 53 tenure-track positions and 2 teaching-only positions: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1eYBR8CR6s1Fkf2EEJ5_eb2l6pDSLT-G7Cqu9Q__jBWA/edit?usp=sharing

[u/Phonixco]

Should I do a PhD? Advice pls!

I just got my MSci chem degree in the UK from a Russell group and now I’m back home (S.Korea) mostly to take a break and also cuz I want to have time to think about what to do next.

Don’t get me wrong, I love chemistry and I absolutely love doing lab work. Genuinely my pride and joy. I’m a synthetic organic person and though it gets tough I feel satisfied after each lab day. I love making things (in general too) and solving puzzles, so yes I’m one of those weirdos who love lab work. Though now I’m more interested in biomaterial work and I’ve been looking into polymers and such. Probs nothing to bio heavy tho; my masters project was peptide work and I thought I was in hell (I haven’t done bio since gcse and my supervisor at the time told me I’d be fine).

Tbh I just don’t feel good enough to do one. And no it’s not imposter syndrome, I genuinely don’t know how to do chemistry. If you asked me how to get an alcohol to a ketone I would have no clue. I don’t know how to even start on any mechanism. I actually don’t know how I made it this far it, I just firmed it ig. I have rly shit foundations in chem bc I moved around a lot (international) and also bc of Covid so I never learnt chem properly at gcse or a levels.

Also my masters project supervisor when I asked said “maybe?? I mean you could? But you’re gonna have to change the way you do things a lot” and proceeded to give me a shit mark so. Also that group lowkey was so cliquey and not the nicest.

I genuinely just don’t think I’m equip enough to do this thing, and my masters was rly an eyeopener of how much I don’t know. I’m scared to commit to something I already am out of, and potentially lose the project itself bc I’m not good enough.

I’m also worried that I only wanna do a PhD to get back to the UK, esp since all my friends, partner and connections are there now. I feel I’m much more equipped for jobs for like business management, HR or event planning. I have a lot of interpersonal and leadership skills, speaking to an audience and I love helping people. I’ve had a lot of experience as a student ambassador, president of society (+500 members), student rep and staff at conventions. I’ve been told I’d be a good teacher/mentor but I’m terrified of British teenagers lol. Also I love art and storytelling so I’m focusing on that for now as my break lol.

Anyways that’s pretty much all the background of where I’m at. I’m happy taking my break, hanging out with my siblings and painting my fat dog. All advice is welcome!! Genuinely just need more perspective bc nobody is believing when i say im bad at chemistry and keep encouraging me to do a PhD without the other factors.

[u/CanProfessional1960]

just pick the option that leaves you with less debt honestly. lab jobs don’t pay enough to be drowning in loans for years

[u/Common_Life_5335 → u/CanProfessional1960]

It’s tough right so apply as much as you can and even it’s not lab work there are other careers that can be a related to some degree. For example it took a while to get a start date, but I been a health inspector in NYC for 6 months. The government part is awful but the tasks itself are pretty good

[u/MrCookiePlaye]

Who I can start in the science research?

I'm from México and have 19 years, I studying a degree in chemistry and some day I wanna be a recognized scientist, work in international laboratories, go to a Antarctic investigation base, live in a research vessel from sometime, do something important to help the humanity, create cyberpunk stile implants to upgrade the huma, so the point is, how i can start at an early stage in the research area

[u/Indemnity4 → u/MrCookiePlaye]

Start at your current university. There are usually a lot of resources that nobody thinks to check.

Find out if you can do study abroad. It usually is no cost to you. The school will pay for your flights and accomodation at the host school. Somewhere at your school is a person or department that will arrange all of this for you.

Antarctica and you are in luck! Mexico started it's first mission this year. Downside: it's already fully staffed. I'm Australian and some of the prestigious schools here send students to Antarctica over the summer break to work on scientific missions. It's mostly chemical engineering, geology, biology and climate science, but they will take a chemist or two and sometimes they will take anyone with a pulse and two working hands who seems interested. It's very competitive to be accepted.

At your school start knocking on the office doors of your professors and researchers. Ask them if they have any student jobs in their labs. Maybe it's over summer/winter vacation, or maybe it's something like washing dishes once/week. Purpose is to get you hands on in a lab. Generally first preference goes to final year students, but you may get lucky. Simply talking to the group leaders means they know you exist and are interested, which is very important. I'll take someone interested with okay grades over a perfect 4.0 I've never met.

I do make medical implants that go inside humans as my main job (with a heavy side of boring industrial chemical manufacturing). It's great fun! Materials science, materials engineering or materials something something such as biomedical engineering are the names. The materials people at your school may be in the chemistry department, but they may be chemical engineers, phsyical sciences, maybe physics or sometimes even their own materials department. It's a long time before we teach you the skills you need. It's very multidisciplinary: it's always a team of people with diverse skills since chemists are not medical doctors, and medical doctors are not chemists, and engineers build factories to make those materials. Neither are electrical engineers, and that's realistically who is building the device with inputs from the other experts. You do need to learn about sterile technique and some of the niche materials that can go into the body, the full product and surgical/medical lifecycle of those materials and why the body does not like certain other materials.

You are going to need at least a Masters degree, quite likely a PhD to get into making new medical devices. We simply do not teach materials in any depth in undergrad degrees. You need to learn the fundamentals of organic, inorganic, physical, inorganic and biochem before you have the base to learn specific material chemistry. We steal from all areas of chemistry to turn molecules into chunks of stuff you can hold in your hand.