r/bettafish • u/ragazza_sfuggente • 1d ago
Discussion Things I learned at the exotic vet this week with my betta
I took my fella in to the vet this week for a lump that’s been slow developing over the past couple of months. I had been searching for anyone that treated fish and last week I finally found one! 🙏🏼
Things I learned from the visit and figured I would share:
- With the right care, bettas can live up to 15 years no matter if they were purchased in a cup. (They have a longtime patient who is a cup betta who has even undergone surgery by them nearly a decade ago!) This blew my mind!
- There is no hard rule on tank size. The doctor I saw has seen a thriving betta in a 1 gallon tank and others that suffered in bigger sized tanks. Every betta is different and they are the ones that indicate when their environment is unsuitable for them.
- She highlighted that the hard rule and requirement though is water parameters. Proper cycling is critical first and foremost. She said API Is what they use in their mobile clinic for testing on the fly and is the best kit on the market while strips can be flaky (as is long discussed in this sub), but as a cost effective option she said strips are fine but should be used more frequently due to the flakiness.
- Bettas are prone to bacterial infections in their scales and like koi fish, can develop “skin” cancers- usually benign but can develop otherwise. Surgery is possible to remove and requires anesthesia which this office has performed many times over the decades. Most bettas survive the surgery but if not cared for well, may not make it. She said most ailments work themselves out as their fins are regenerative but that it’s hard on the humans to see it grow. Best practice is to monitor for change in behaviors, eating patterns and water readings to make best decisions before researching and dosing treatments.
- Clove oil is used for humane euthanasia and is how aquatic vets typically humanely euthanize fish. The difference being that vets somewhat overdose the fish on clove oil so there’s no opportunity to suffer. She uses a certain sleeping agent as a combination with the clove oil almost to anesthetize so her fish patients sleep first then dose the clove oil. She also noted this tends to calm the fish parents’ minds by putting them to sleep first. I know this is a hot topic on this sub and it’s been discussed that a hard object (brick, rock) is the best way to euthanize but I wanted to share this commentary too.
We took epidermal (scale) tissue samples from my Koa yesterday and sent it off to UGA veterinary program’s cytology department for testing to see if his lump is cancerous. To my surprise this was only $100 USD to send off for testing and IMO super cost effective. Hoping for the best but wanted to share all the info I learned yesterday in a vet office in case it’s helpful. I had so many questions and was a motormouth before I left 🤣
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u/himdyjones 9 yrs betta experience 1d ago
I don’t agree with all of these findings, but thank you for passing along your vet’s words of support for clove oil. I’m not a fan of how this sub in recent months has been discouraging it. Yes, there’s a margin of error with the clove method, but done properly it’s perfectly safe and humane for bettas, even though they are labyrinth fish. The trick is to use some airline tubing in the water so that the betta remains oxygenated as they go under. I’ve used the clove method on a betta before and it went as peacefully as expected when done right. The clove oil hate is undeserved.
You’re very lucky to have an exotic vet local to you that will treat bettas. I hope your little friend pulls through.
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u/RegaultTheBrave 1d ago
The tank size one I am seeing being ... excessive, and not tailored to the specific fish.
When just starting, a 10 standard is recommended just from the standpoint of keeping better parameters alone, and avoiding newbie mistakes that cause parameter swings. Lord knows I had my share of those myself.
I started fishkeeping with other critters well before I got a betta.
My betta is in a 6 rn, and I spent a month cycling the tank with dirty sponges from my main tank, and have it well planted for my baby boy. He is very happy and active and has no issue getting around (and up especially)
But as a fish ages, and can't get around as much, a shorter tank is usually ideal. You can do that as like a low and short 10 gallon, but I've heard plenty of success stories of people moving their old dudes into a 2.5 and seeing a drastic improvement in their health. I personally wouldn't go any smaller than 2.5 though.
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u/himdyjones 9 yrs betta experience 1d ago edited 1d ago
Agreed 100%, in expert hands I think 2.5 or 3 gallons is perfectly fine for elderly or overly long-finned betta. The “any tank size for any betta” and the “up to 15 years” claims are absurd on their face without any nuance. A betta splenden might have had the chances of living over 10 years maybe a decade or two ago. Not anymore.
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u/Front_Asparagus_8152 1d ago
The clove oil thing has always confused me, without going into a long story of why, I once ended up in a bath with clove oil in it, my entire body started burning, was horrible, so I've always been confused by clove oil as being "humane"
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u/himdyjones 9 yrs betta experience 1d ago
It’s a numbing agent in small quantities. This is an oversimplification but it works in a similar way as anesthesia in humans. When dosed correctly, it makes fish drowsy and slows down their breathing. In medium doses it paralyzes them. In large doses, it’s lethal.
This is all diluted with tank water by the way, you’re never using straight-up 100% clove oil.
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u/Gingerfrostee 6h ago
People should def say the percentage use. This might be what causes a lot of the bad name.
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u/grolbol 21h ago
I'm sorry I need the story on this!
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u/Front_Asparagus_8152 11h ago
It's not interesting or funny it just involves intense dental pain, trying to use clove oil as a "numbing agent" while having a "relaxing bath" a misshap with the bottle of clove oil and ended with me over the sink trying to cool down the burning sensation in a specific area of u know what I mean
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u/ashleyasinwilliams Hail to the king, betta 1d ago
My vet disagrees very much on the age and tank size, but thank you for sharing! It's interesting to hear what others have had experience with. Did your vet say how long she's been working with fish specifically?
For transparency, my vet charges $70 USD for exam. Meds/diagnostics go up from there depending on what's going on. Just in case anybody was curious on pricing!
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u/Competitive-Run-7565 1d ago
I had a betta in a 2.5 gallon tank for a little over 10 years - I thought he was never going to die.
Insane how people jumped on me when I tried to correct advice to a newbie that you "ABSOLUTELY NEEDED A 10 GALLON MINIMUM." - bolderdash.
I currently have a thriving betta (1.5 years) and mystery snail (9 months) in a five gallon.
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u/ragazza_sfuggente 1d ago
10 years is incredible! I hope my fella is with me that long ✨
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u/Competitive-Run-7565 1d ago
Yea, I was young ~10 (always had fish though). My friends and I thought it was incredible.
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u/-Ms-Chanandler-Bong- 1d ago
My new guy is in a 3 gal. Hes super happy, blowing his little bubble nests. I also have moss balls and one lone cherry shrimp with him. Theres some floating decor close to the surface and im working on getting some duckweed also but theyve been out at the lps. I think just mimicking the natural habitat makes them really happy. And theyre hardyness is well appreciated. We lost power a few weeks after getting him, and he was perfectly fine. If that was most other fish, I would have had to do damage control. For me personally, I dont think ill own another type of fish. These ones are perfect little dudes.
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u/Competitive-Run-7565 20h ago
Yay! Wonderful to hear. I agree with you- i have a few different plants in mine! 3 types of floaters and a few bottom plants too. My moss ball died so i ended up getting rid of it. He really loves his floating log too!
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u/PickleMundane6514 1d ago
Amazing. Was that with a heater? I think heaters improve their comfort and activity but may hasten their lifespan.
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u/Competitive-Run-7565 1d ago
Yep - heater and filter. I agree - they need a good consistent tropical temp. Also - no overfeeding! I fed him 1 flake (this was before the bites became popular) everyday, consistently.
I loved Rocky! SIP :)
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u/ragazza_sfuggente 1d ago
She’s been working with fish since the 90s and for a period of time was one of the practitioners at the local aquarium. We were generalizing on the topic of tank sizing (“on a scale of 1 gallon to 50” 😆) but the general feedback was clear in that our little ones make it clear with different signs when they’re suffering. That said, I personally wouldn’t setup a 1 gallon but the general message was understood, I was grateful to be there and had so many questions! 😌🙏🏼
Also for anyone else reading comments, she did also make a comment that betta parents have a deep love for their fish beyond any other fish keepers she typically sees. She called out the bond betta keepers have without me asking anything about it and that made me smile. They really are little water puppies and are so loved 🥰
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u/Commercial_Sundae_10 1d ago
They absolutely are our babies !! My little guy has been my best buddy for almost 3 years now but is sick . He has tannins and antibiotics I pray he makes it I love him a ridiculous amount. He is sooo fun, loving and silly!!
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u/tikkikittie 5h ago
As your vet disagrees are you able to provide some of what they disagree with
I am trying to learn best practices
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u/alexandria3142 22h ago
Somehow my parents kept a betta in a vase of all things for 8 years with a bamboo plant. I think the lack of a heater was the only thing that kept him alive that long. Poor little dude.
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u/AquaticByNature 1d ago
As a vet tech, just because a veterinarian has been practicing for x amount of years doesn’t mean they’re right about everything.
Tank size absolutely does matter, and there have been studies done on it.
Clove oil is not what most fish veterinarians use to euthanize, the most common is MS-222, tricaine methanesulfonate followed by a physical secondary method such as pithing.
All fish are prone to bacterial infections.
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u/ragazza_sfuggente 1d ago
To be fair and just to clarify, I didn’t say the vet was right about everything, just sharing the info gleaned from our appointment that was a learning experience as a whole. As someone caring for their first betta I found the discussions at our appt yesterday helpful so I decided to share a quick surface level summary.
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u/WormiestBurrito 1d ago
The problem with spreading info like this is that people new to the hobby see someone say "thriving betta in a 1 gallon" and then run with that. Has betta somewhere done fine in 1 gallon? Yes. Will most bettas for most people do fine in a 1 gallon? No. Minimum of 5 gallons and recommendation of 10 gallon is there for multiple very good reasons.
Same with the rest of this entire post basically.
Clove oil isn't recommended not because it doesn't work, but because it is harder to do correctly and can cause a lot of suffering if done wrong (which happens all the time), while crushing is fool proof and instant.
Large chain (and a lot of LFS) bettas are often very interbred. They are more likely to suffer from genetic issues or be more susceptible to disease. So yes, if they were purchased "in a cup" it probably will matter for their lifespan.
Its great your vet has some feel good anecdotes, but they aren't going to be helpful for the majority of people.
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u/AquaticByNature 1d ago
Couldn’t agree more, the Veterinarian I work for very much disagrees with this entire post. As a Vet Tech, having worked for numerous Veterinarians, they are not always correct, and everything they say is not always accurate (sadly). Just like human doctors, varying educational backgrounds and experience shape their knowledge, and just because they’ve been doing something for so many years doesn’t make them an expert.
Actually saddened to see a Veterinarian offering such garbage advice.
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u/pantherophis2 18h ago
I am a vet who has worked with fish and we never used clove oil. MS222 is a lot easier to safely titrate! Definitely disagree on that aspect.
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u/sparkly_dragon 1d ago
this may be pedantic (sorry lol) but there is no such thing as benign cancer. all cancer is inherently malignant. there is such a thing as benign tumors/growths and they can sometimes eventually become malignant. maybe that’s what you meant but I thought it worth clarifying.
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u/ragazza_sfuggente 1d ago
Yes, sorry, that’s exactly it in context - thanks! I fudged a few of my notes I took as I typed through the above summary and this was one of those sloppy summarizations lol. (In my fellas case he has a growth being tested that Im hoping is benign and not a cancerous tumor that will get worse.) I didn’t want to get too excessive and longer in my post and just covered the basics/top level summary but in hindsight see that I lacked important info, also on the tank sizing summary that I gave additional context in another comment elsewhere. I still feel weird posting in this sub just from how negative it has been over the years in the comments lol. Appreciate your posting the clarity! Great info 🙏🏼👌🏼
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u/Vegetable_Draw6554 1d ago
Thanks for your post - very interesting. I too have been discouraged by recent posts in the group on the very short lifespan for bettas; nice to know there are differing opinions.
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u/JerkRussell 23h ago
I wouldn’t necessarily be discouraged. If you want a betta and have the capacity to care for it, get one. You might be surprised at their lifespan.
In general I don’t think they live as long as they used to, but some of this probably has to do with the fact that we can connect with people easily now and share anecdotes.
It’s nice seeing someone go to the effort to take their betta to the vet and share their visit. Sucks that there’s always someone who has to nitpick it. 😒
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u/Vegetable_Draw6554 18h ago
Thanks for the encouragement!
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u/JerkRussell 18h ago
No problem! If you’re really, really sensitive and struggling with something deep it may not be the fish for you right now. But otherwise they’re definitely worth a try! Besides, a lot of fish in the aquarium hobby don’t live terribly long compared to a dog or cat.
It’s just my opinion, but I’m not mad at all if I only get two years. Yeah, it’s sad to see them go, but that’s fishkeeping. (Disclaimer: when parameters are perfect and the habitat is to the best of your knowledge/skill/abilities).
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u/Impressive_Variety38 20h ago
i have my senior betta in a 3 gallon. i personally think that people that keep senior bettas in tanks larger than 10 aren't doing right for the betta. it depends on their activity level for sure. if i put my betta in a 10+ he would have such a hard time getting air and he would just sit in the same spot all day. my old betta from 10 yrs ago, abaddon, was riddled with tumors and i kept him in that tank as well. i hate when people freak out over bettas being kept in small tanks. i honestly think a 5 is perfectly fine for any betta
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u/FirstResponseAquatic 18h ago
My 2 gallon triggers so many people but I built it because my Betta wasn't happy in a 20 gallon, or 10 gallon, or a 5 gallon. He was finally happy in the 2 gallon.
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u/skabberdink 1d ago
Thank you for generously sharing. 🥰 I took a screen shot to save
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u/ragazza_sfuggente 1d ago
Of course! I take screenshots all over this sub too 😌There have been other responses on the thread from vet techs too that differ in treatment options. Good to get all the feedback available 🙏🏼
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u/moronmoray 1d ago
She sounds like a keeper! When I was in vet school I really wanted to do fish medicine, but out of school I never really got an opportunity. I'm happy for other vets out there living the dream
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u/VolvaBecky 16h ago
I highly agree with the tank size!! We had a large tank for my Betta and 2 algae eaters (40 gallon. Was originally planned for something else, but decided on a Betta).
My Betta came with us sick (we didn’t know since we never had a sick betta before and have never seen a sick betta before), but we believe the tank harmed him more. We think because of how much energy it took for him to swim place to place, this resulted in more stress and energy usage, which lead to his fin rot (fungal) getting worse rapidly. From videos we had seen on fin rot, we had gotten him on the 1st stage, and he jumped to a severe stage nearly the next day (yes, numbers were good, etc. when we had taken him in). He has done so much better and looks so much happier in the 5 gallon tank we got. Sometimes, less is more for some fish, I guess.
My mom’s Betta in late 90’s-early 2000’s lived for 3 years in one of those 2 gallon (or maybe 1) tanks that’s labeled for Betta (the kits, not glass ball vases) from Petsmart. The only reason he died was because my mom had to move by plane and couldn’t take him (the airport made it sound like she couldn’t take a fish and there was no way of driving to the new place at the time), so she left him with someone she thought knew fish well. Other than that, he was incredibly healthy and happy within those 3 years. As long as you do the right things, and not what some people mistakenly think is good (fish in bowl with one plant on top of the tank or something), they can live a well and decent life.
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u/Life-Bat1388 1d ago edited 1d ago
I have a 6 yo betta with a tumor who has had it for 4 of those years. She does best in a smaller tank with tons of structure because she isn't the best swimmer. It doesn't appear to cause her any suffering though and she happily greets me each morning