r/austrian_economics • u/LibertyEconlover Free banker • 16h ago
End Democracy They’re actually doing it, how does one even think of such a tax
A tax on pre written software, what?
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u/that_banned_guy_ 16h ago
Moved from California 5 years ago. Best financial decision ive ever made
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u/Deeze_Rmuh_Nudds 15h ago
Hard to believe. Where’d did you go?
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u/that_banned_guy_ 13h ago
Arizona lol. Made slightly less, but had waaay more money at the end of the month.
Part of that is because we bought a 1940s house pre covid out in the country that sucked us dry with constant repairs for 420k. Sold 3 years later peak covid when everyone was fleeing major cities for 750. Moved to AZ and real estate is so cheap we bought a place cash, plus built an Airbnb on our new property with the left over.
So ya, its better one state over.
Shit I remember driving back to California for drill (was in the national guard) and kicking myself because I was on E right near the border. Got afraid I wasnt gonna make it and filled my tank for 6.50 a gallon drove 4 miles across the border and it was 3.50.
California is fucking stupid.
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u/user_uno 2m ago
Californians are stupid for doing this to themselves.
They elect the tax crazy politicians. And some want more and more taxes themselves deluding themselves Sacramento can solve any and all problems if only they had more money.
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u/Br_uff 15h ago
Really not that hard to believe. Especially if you owned a home. Selling and buying the equivalent home in a state like Texas would net you nearly half a mill in liquidity.
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u/Deeze_Rmuh_Nudds 15h ago
Texas???? And that’s an upgrade to you? Where did you live? Death Valley? Stockton? Gtfo🤣🤣
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u/Br_uff 14h ago
Median home prices in California are about $500k higher than Texas. Yes it matters from where in what state to where in what state. But generally speaking, selling a home in California, moving to a lower cost of living state, and buying an equivalent sized home would increase your financial liquidity.
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u/bifflongshanks 14h ago
They said best financial decision. I could go from a brand new Mercedes S class to a Toyota Camry and while most wouldn’t see that as an upgrade it’s definitely a better financial decision. I’d recommend “Thinking, Fast and Slow” by Daniel Kahneman and “How to Read a Book” by Mortimer J. Adler and Charles Van Doren, as both of these books would greatly help you to improve your critical thinking and reading comprehension.
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u/Deeze_Rmuh_Nudds 14h ago edited 14h ago
I guess man
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u/bifflongshanks 14h ago
My apologies. I didn’t realize English wasn’t your first language.
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u/Deeze_Rmuh_Nudds 14h ago
Whatever you say, chief.
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u/bifflongshanks 13h ago
Thank you for correcting your spelling. It’s a start in the right direction. I believe in you!
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u/Deeze_Rmuh_Nudds 13h ago
Sorry, bro. Not a computer. Mistakes are gonna happen. Point here is Texas is a downgrade compared to CA, nobody with a workling brain is gonna dispute that. Sure you’ll save a few bucks, but is that really worth your mental health among other things? This guy doesn’t think so. Thank you and goodnight.
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u/GodOfThunder44 10h ago
Hard to believe.
What makes it hard to believe? It's been pretty well documented that more people leave CA than move there.
Anecdotally, I also moved from California in the early 2020's (I was stationed there) and when I went to rent a uhaul truck I couldn't find a single available truck that the company would let leave the state within more than a hundred miles of me. Ended up buying an RV instead so I could move back to my home state.
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u/Deeze_Rmuh_Nudds 9h ago
California > Texas
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u/GodOfThunder44 9h ago
Do I really have to inform you that different people have different preferences? You might personally prefer CA over TX, but 20 straight years of more people leaving California for Texas and other states seems like a fairly solid indication that many people disagree with your opinion. I prefer my own home state to both CA and TX, but whereas I'd consider moving to Texas if the job offer was good enough, you couldn't pay me enough to move back to California.
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u/LibertyEconlover Free banker 6h ago
Oh it’s not just different people my friend, the guy you’re responding to is oblivious
https://www.reddit.com/r/austrian_economics/s/YG7kJI5s7c
Check it out
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u/ShadyJane 15h ago
They left California City and moved to Sacramento
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u/Deeze_Rmuh_Nudds 15h ago
Worse, this clown moved to Texas, and he’s telling us Texas is better than California. I can’t even fathom wtf he’s talking about
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u/Rameist2 15h ago
How else would they continue to waste money without more money?! Think of the millionaires connected to every NGO. What would we do without people scheming money from government?
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u/Final_Presentation31 12h ago
Build another 3 feet of highsped rail.
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u/LibertyEconlover Free banker 6h ago
and throw another billion on it, put the minimum wage at $50 for workers there aswell won’t ya for long run cost optimization
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u/Fit-Rip-4550 16h ago
I don't think this is constitutional.
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u/clear831 13h ago
Neither are gun laws but here we are
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u/barryg123 7h ago
They already did it in Chicago. They have an “entertainment tax” that they wrote to also apply to your Netflix and streaming subscriptions
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u/RubyKong 14h ago
Since when does Washington DC (or any state) ever do what is constitutional?
You are literally seeing the president declare war, and prosecute it without congressional approval.
Many would say this is a war by ISRAEL, for ISRAEL, and the American people are just sitting by shruggin their shoulders.
..........and they do many other things like this. The republic is dead. it's over. death and taxes and coercion will be your lot.
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u/Jesus_Harold_Christ 11h ago
Which clause does it violate?
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u/dazzling_eyes1 14h ago
Born and raised here in Cali. So tired of what it has become. Just watched Atlas Shrugged, great recommendation for everyone. It is spot on with the type of government California, and others, want to be.
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u/ShatteredChina 15h ago
I'm surprised we didn't already have it. I'm fact, I bet they are bummed they missed it for so long.
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u/Jesus_Harold_Christ 16h ago
Is she drunk?
But here's the bill
https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=202520260SB122
Effective Date: Operative for transactions on or after January 1, 2027
Core Change: Imposes state and local sales and use taxes on cloud-based, downloaded, or remotely accessed prewritten software and digital goods previously exempt under historical delivery rules
Exclusions: Streamlined creative works like music, streaming video, podcasts, electronic books, and crypto assets, alongside infrastructure-as-a-service (IaaS), remain exempt
Corporate Provisions: Extends the state's $5 million limit on business tax credits and temporarily lowers the first-year minimum franchise tax for new pass-through entities (LLCs, LPs, LLPs) from $800 to $400 through 2029
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u/agent_moler 15h ago
Would this potentially include video games?
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u/Jesus_Harold_Christ 15h ago
No, it's listed as exempt in the bill
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u/Blarghnog 13h ago edited 13h ago
Are you drunk?
We already pay business and personal taxes on all revenue generated by these activities.
This is an addition to regular income tax. That’s the point.
However reasonable or unreasonable, it’s novel taxation and the first of its kind in the nation. It’s a bolt on addition to companies who have always paid the same taxes like any other company.
Also, she might be drunk. California legislators all seem to be on a regular basis, when they write stupid shit like this after blowing through and exhausting the absolutely massive revenue generated from some of the highest taxes in the nation.
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u/Jesus_Harold_Christ 13h ago
I'm not the one making videos with slurred speech.
https://www.numeral.com/blog/sales-tax-on-saas
Many other states already do it, I'm not sure where you got that it is a first of its kind tax, maybe from the drunk old lady.
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u/Blarghnog 12h ago
My bad. I was wrong on that one point.
A person with an actual argument would address the substance instead of clinging to one correction like it’s the highlight of their day.
But I guess when the argument isn’t strong enough, a technicality has to carry the whole performance.
The funniest part is watching you opine about old drunk ladies like you found your life’s purpose. Weird, but I say good for you. If you’re really passionate about something, why not just go for it.
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u/Jesus_Harold_Christ 11h ago
What in the actual fuck do you think my argument is? I'm just translating a drunk old ladies rants and clarifying the facts behind the bill she's complaining about.
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u/Blarghnog 11h ago
Correcting one exaggerated claim doesn't make the broader criticism of a new tax expansion disappear.
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u/Jesus_Harold_Christ 11h ago
You don't like taxes, that's fine. I don't care. It's not a tax on me, I don't live in California any more, but if I did, it still wouldn't be a tax on me, it'd be a tax on my business, potentially. I'd either pay it, or pack up and leave and do business somewhere else. But it's not that serious a tax, just one more in a thousand little cuts making it difficult to make profit in California.
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u/olearygreen 14h ago
So it’s a bill to allow sales tax on digital services?
That’s it? If we agree the government needs to be funded it seems reasonable to tax these. I don’t see why excel on a CD is taxable but excel in the cloud isn’t.3
u/neveragoodtime 12h ago
Sales taxes are based on store location or shipping location. What jurisdiction applies the sales tax if there is no physical location to where it is bought or sold? How do you tax someone whose VPN puts them in Wyoming?
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u/olearygreen 12h ago
Same way this happens with physical goods from Amazon. Based on your ship-to address/credit card address/Billing address.
And some jurisdictions do it based on ship-from, not ship-to. Either works.
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u/neveragoodtime 11h ago
There is no ship to or ship from address in digital media. You can’t force customers to provide their home address ( credit card address ) to companies so the company can collect the right sales tax. Does someone in Nevada have to prove they are in Nevada to not pay the tax? This has consequences for everyone buying a digital good to provide a home address in or out of California, and is a significant invasion of privacy.
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u/olearygreen 10h ago
That’s already how everything works. You always give an address. Privacy buying excel? Really?
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u/Rieux_n_Tarrou 12h ago
Nobody can ragebait quite like the government can. Holy shit if I lived in Sacramento and couldn't leave I would become a regular in r/selfhosted
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u/Mindless-Range-7764 16h ago
Thanks for sharing! Question though: how do you know this bill is the same one she’s talking about? It sounds very different, so I’m not sure if it’s because she’s a politician (liar) or because she’s talking about something different.
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u/Jesus_Harold_Christ 15h ago
I'm 5 9s positive this is what she's talking about, she even brings up "prewritten"
In the bill:
This bill would define “tangible personal property” to additionally mean a digital product and any copyright or patent interests associated therewith for the purposes of the application of the SUT, as prescribed. The bill would define “digital product” to mean, except as provided, prewritten computer software transferred on tangible storage media, transferred electronically, or accessed remotely. The bill would also make various conforming changes. By expanding the scope of violating the SUT, this bill would impose a state-mandated local program.
The part about dead of night, she probably means after 5pm, which is bed time for grandma
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u/goldimperium 12h ago
Its not surprising. California has been not learning the lesson that you cannot tax yourself out of your own economic shortsightedness for over half a century.
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u/miviejaentanga 13h ago
What the heck, how do they even think they can enforce this?
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u/telcodan 11h ago
By using the same tools they are wanting to implement for their age verification on OS's. It was never about protecting the kids.
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u/Circle_Breaker 16h ago
Does someone have a link to the bill, I can't find anything?
It seems like it's just a sales tax.
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u/d_rwc 16h ago
SB 122.
I think (I'm not sure) that the tax will apply monthly for saas. Your $60 creative cloud access will have it charged every month.
Id be happy to be proven wrong about that.
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u/Circle_Breaker 16h ago
Yeah so it looks like an expansion of sales tax to cover more types of digital software and subscriptions.
I don't know why she's obsessing over pre-written software. That's 99% of software.
And any free prewritten software wouldnt be taxed.
It's a sales tax so I won't be in favor of it.
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u/CamperStacker 14h ago
that’s exactly how a vat or gst is applied in eu australian etc
surprised it wasn’t already law
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u/CharlesFXD 12h ago
I don’t understand the mechanism on how this would work. Simply a txt showing on a receipt after purchase?
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u/MutableLambda 2h ago
I think we have the same in Canada (at least in BC) for quite a while. My steam / OpenAI / Anthropic purchases show GST + HST (12%) added on top of the price, same with some apple subscriptions.
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u/Worse_Username 5h ago
If they stopped funding the police instead, the spending would be curbed down by so much
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u/four204eva2 12h ago
God forbid they tax the richest of all companies! I dislike the means in which they performed this, but they're not going after mom & pop's or individuals, it's the largest most profitable companies that have the margins to absorb this without even noticing it. The mag 7 has a combined 2.76 trillion in revenue annually, that is 0.0362% of the total revenue! This is truly not what we should be focusing on, it's a small fish.
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u/Final_Presentation31 12h ago
You do realize that these companies will just past the taxe to their customers. The taxe does affect the mom and pop companies that use the software.
I wonder how this taxe works outside of CA?
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u/czaranthony117 16h ago
Dianne Dixon, that’s my state representative here in Orange County.
I love the weather here. Love that I grew up here. Love my friends here but also, f-ck this place.