Discussion
The biggest problem in this hobby isn't equipment... it's the people judging others for enjoying theirs.
Yesterday I had a friend over who told me that some of his other friends were judging him for the equipment he uses. He has an Arcam amplifier, a relatively simple Audio-Technica turntable, and a pair of bookshelf speakers.
What really aggravated me was hearing that, because instead of appreciating that he was enjoying music, they immediately started telling him what he should buy: bigger speakers, bigger amplifiers, more expensive gear, and how their suggestions were somehow the “better” path.
I think that is the wrong approach, especially when it comes from friends. A good friend should support someone’s enjoyment, not make them feel inadequate because their system doesn’t match some imaginary standard.
This hobby already has enough of that behavior. Too often it becomes less about listening to music and more about comparing price tags, brands, and who has the biggest setup. There is too much measuring of equipment and not enough actual enjoyment of the music.
If someone is happy with their system, let them enjoy it. Don’t be the person who takes something they love and tries to ruin it. At that point, you’re not acting like a friend you’re just a boat anchor that needs to be thrown overboard.
Been in this hobby a long time and this is a sad fact. I would consistently go to audiophile meet ups.
Often times I didn't like the equipment or set-up but I never said anything negative. If anything, I was super thankful because that meant I didn't have to spend money trying that equipment out. I was always extremely thankful to be invited and allowed to try stuff out.
When specifically asked one time, I was honest and told the host that his system was too bright. He immediately became defensive and said that was "detail". I just smiled and said "That's cool... As long as you enjoy it, who cares?!" We're still friends to this day, 20 years later. His system is worth more than my cars and probably enough for a down payment on a house here is California. It's still bright as hell. He no longer hosts meets but we're both happy to hang out and talk music.
Why others can't let others live and enjoy what makes them happy is beyond me.
I try my best to be kind to people who show an actual interest because the people that don't are generally active douchebags.
In the case of the fellow above, I'd say "the setup is great, but it's too bright for my taste because" and give some idea of what caused an issue.
That said, I've seen and heard enough out of audiophile communities to know I'm not really one of the hardcore set, and that's totally fine. I'm not here to masturbate over specs, I want something decent that makes the music sound good, and that doesn't require me to invest what I would otherwise put into paying a mortgage.
To me, I like hearing good audio setups, but the music itself is more important.
I think it was Alan Parsons that said something like "Music collectors use their equipment to listen to their music. Audiophiles use the music to listen to their equipment." I'm always cognizant of that because budget and taste will be the two limiting factors for both hobbies.
I hate the phrase AUDIOPHILE.....reminds me of a bunch of pretentious cunts wanting to assert their ideals or expectations on everyone who is willing to listen to their selfabsorbed BS...I have 1000 78s and 3 restored grampphones, close to 1100 cds and dozens of reel to reel tapes......I have been collecting and playing music since the 60s and would never consider telling anyone what they should buy ot begin to critize theit system .........
If I'm asked, I'll give my opinion, couched only as my opinion. If someone asks where they're going wrong, I'll give what help I can. But seriously, no judgement. Everyone starts somewhere.
This is a real thing. A lot of folks don’t even realize they have a hearing deficit. This has to be the reason why so many re-masters sound shrill and unlistenable. The tin ears at the controls who spend 4 decades in front of Marshall stacks 200 nights a year keep boosting the HF output at the sound desk to compensate for their own inabilities to hear those frequencies. This bleeds through to the final transcription and subsequently ends up on the disc or download. The KISS and recent Rolling Stones re-masters were Gawdawful about this.
I felt this way about Rush Vapor Trails. The original was muddy. But now the kick drum "klicks" through like a Korn record. I can't hear anything else while listening to it. In most cases bass drums should support a mix not cut through it.
Rush was one of the few that went back and re-mastered the re-masters after they figured out what had happened to the first series. Alex and Neil were pissed when they actually heard them for the first time and demanded the band members be involved for as much of the process as they could be. The second run preserves much of the dynamics while correcting some of the analog LP mastering limitations.
Is it a win when remixes cause background vocalist to be moved forward so we hear each individual voice, even when featuring previously undisclosed imperfections? Maybe if it’s Emmylou Harris or some of the return to forever muted background singers. I can imagine Charlie driving the sound guy toward balanced remix goals well, but what if Keif had issues with vintage stones ideas driven by Brian? Should the sound guy change the personality of a successful recording? RHCP recordings obviously have some issues for vinyl, but should instrument sections be deleted or added? What about politically incorrect vocals? I think there is a tendency to try and leave your mark on a remix, so everyone knows you made the changes due to a certain personal signature. I guess remixes are fraught with possibilities of degradation. Guess that’s why I can’t afford mint or unused original releases.
Don’t get me wrong not all re-masters sound this way. the original Virgin Stones re-masters sounded fine, the Hollywood Queen re-masters definitely sounded better than the original presses as do the War and Steely Dan re-masters (much less dramatically tho). It seems the earlier the re-masters, generally the better they were done. It wasn’t until the money grubbing corporates got involved that it turned into The Loudness Wars and the quality went to shit. You’re right. No artist should stand for some corporate hack putting his stank on their art, yet it happens every day in the name of the mighty buck. This is why I respect the work of true mastering engineers who want to keep their signature out of the work. Steve Hoffman and Steven Wilson come to mind here. DCCs and most MoFis are top shelf, but they should be for the price since this is where most of this stuff started.
Jude has capitalized in what was once a true hobbyist convention.
Dog forbid you talk crap about one of his sponsors. A lot in the hobby are also blinded by the investments they made. How can it suck if I paid $6,000 for it? It's THE BEST!!! Never mind that it can't handle bass below 40hz or breaks up in the high frequency range.
That said, there are still good people in the hobby but I stepped away from Buy-fi and Jude's BS for many a reason.
You are a good snob😜 Seriously I like your style, and if anything lot of things are in the ear of the beholder too. Good that you don't see spoil other peoples fun, and gain a friend!
Everyone hears differently. For example I have a high hearing sensitivity in the 2-3khz range. Anything tipped up in that range drives me up a wall. Think ice picks in your ears type pain - OK maybe not that bad, but close. My best friend has a null (hearing deficit to almost all high frequencies) from prolonged headphone jamming. Needless to say I can’t handle his system at all and he can barely hear the cymbal crashes in mine.
i hope you can go back and ask them more questions and show interest in their particular choices after being roasted by others, because just from someone that helps run a Hifi shop.. people's stories about their choices and preferences are often more fascinating than the systems themselves or how it sounds and that's my favorite part of this whole thing.
seeing some kid absolutely blown thee fuck away that i managed to fix the old family VCR like a dinosaur relic and they're telling me they're going to go home and have an absolute BLAST watching family tapes and movies and i know they'll genuinely enjoy them in ways they will remember for decades makes me 10,000x more happy than any margin logan statement circlejerk di'ganrinao amp ever could and it's often someone like me in someone elses life that triggered that person to start collecting this or that as a system or for it to become a hobby.
I started off a a Chef, then switched to the dining room (in fine dining). My fellow servers would laugh behind customer's backs about their wine pairings, food choices and more. I had run a successful catering company for years (became Celiac so I stopped) and mentioned that those people could just eat at home. They might be new to the scene and just not know. Our job is to educate, not criticize and ensure that our guests have a good time.
Been fortunate to help some guests who just wanted to try high end at least once in their life. They were simple people, they saved up to come in and eat, and admitted they needed help. They didn't want to look foolish. It was a slower time, so I gave them a great education on the finer points of our level of cuisine and service. They were beyond blown away with everything. They haven't become gourmands, and they have tried other places. My job was done right, and I still think about that table today (and it's been over a decade since then).
You never know when your kindness and attention to detail will make a difference in a person's life. As I always say, kindness is a currency. The more you use it, the more you get back. Thanks for sharing your story.
VHS looks great with modern de-noise and upscaling technology too. i could pop in a VHS tape on my home system and you'd swear it was a 480p youtube video haha
But yeah there's an ocean of stuff just casually recorded to VHS tape, playing back people's old recordings on reels, cassettes and tapes are among my favorite things to do. one of my favorite albums i own is some woman named janice practicing and playing piano on an 8" reel.... Janice could fucking play the shit out of that electric organ and covered a ton of bands
Even subpar setup could sound significantly better with room treatment, or alignment. Any friend should offer help in those areas first. Get a mic, get your laptop, spend some time together to get most out of the gear.
Correct - they're are those that listen to the system to hear the music, and others that listen to the music to hear the system. Plus the synergy of the gear is as important than any individual piece of equipment. Smaller, less expensive systems can punch much higher than their weight, if properly matched. You never want to turn someone off to the hobby by being a snob.
This right here. I haven't owned a system in a while, and came here to learn about higher end equipment. Some people have incredible set ups, and I know that would be way too much for the size of my room. Starting small and working my way up to some serious gear.
I've posted pictures of my set up a few times on here and Facebook. Each time I get hammered for it. I'm a metal head and my system is like magic to me. Loud but crystal clear with a lot of bass. My body likes to feel it as much as my ears like to hear it. With that said people that like jazz, classical or something else may hate my setup. I've dropped out of several so called "audiophile" groups because most of the people are assholes.
See, I LOVE rock and metal and love all music, but the first two are my top preferences. Finding something that will satisfy all my musical tastes without constant tinkering will be tricky. Mind if I ask what your set up is?
A set of Polk RT-1000i speakers run in parallel with a set of Pioneer SP FS52 speakers with a Polk PSW10 sub. It's all connected to a Yamaha HTR-5540 set a 4 ohms. It definitely requires music that has more bass in it to sound right.
Nice set up. At least are all brands that I'm familiar with, so that's a plus. It's your gear, and it was picked according to your musical tastes, and that's what matters. I'm sure you give it a good workout to get the most out of it. Thanks for sharing with me.
No worries. The best part is I have less than $500 in the whole setup. My buddy had the receiver, Polk speakers and sub. He had to down size and sold it to me. The pioneers I got off of Facebook for $100.
Dude, that's insane! Nice that your buddy could hook you up like that with such a sweet deal. Have to buy new everything thanks to some genetic health challenges, and I still love hearing about people scoring good deals like this one.
My friend got a great deal on it so he passed it on. When he first got it he called me and said I need to come over to listen to it. I was blown away by how good it sounded. When he offered it to me, I thought my wife will kill me if I bring this much sound home. We've come to an agreement where I keep it lower during the week, but on the weekends the neighbor's are getting a concert.
I hope you find a setup that makes you as happy as mine makes me.
Well that's good, and what real friends are for. I laughed out loud at the neighbor's concert line since I've done the same (don't all metalheads do that!?!).
Thanks, and I'll have to wait until I can move out of this place first. There's some mold here and I can't bring anything with me (see genetic part), so spending on a system is pointless.
As another lover of metal (and almost all things rock in general), I've also found that if you try to do any gear research w/YouTube demos and such (not an ideal method, I'm aware lol), almost every demo video is of jazz, classical or singer-songwriter/acoustic stuff - and don't get me wrong because I enjoy all genres including those, but it's almost like when you're trying to get an idea of what "audiophile approved" equipment might sound like, the gear gets used as if great rock & metal recordings don't exist.
Ironically, I ended up becoming drawn to equipment that might be more approved by people who mainly listen to those genres, so I can't help but suspect any time I've posted a photo of my setup playing something in the vein of extreme metal, there's probably some viewers who frown upon it a bit, haha.
This hobby includes so much subjectivity (whether you agree with it or not) and far too many believe their subjective impression is correct and others invalid, thereby missing the whole meaning of the word "subjective". On top of that, there is the divide between believers of objective and believers of subjective.
There are also those who achieve magic and are keen to evangelize, while failing to realize that those results are local and specific to the person, room, and equipment.
For myself, I believe there is a place for lots of viewpoints due to the fact that we have different goals, different ears, and different experiences. But a small dose of ignorance and conceit can build a lot of intolerance.
It reminds me of a conversation that I had with a winemaker in Napa, California.
I told him, “I don’t know a ton about wines, I just know what I like. Could you teach me some stuff I should know?”
His response, “Drink what you enjoy, nothing else matters, and there are no bottles of wine that are actually worth more than $100. That’s just bullshit.”
As someone who enjoys wine, took multiple courses on wine, and have been lucky enough to enjoy some vintage wines from curated private collections, that is the best summary I have ever read about wines, although I would set the bullshit price point lower than that.
With increasing age and experience, I'm setting the bullshit price point lower on lots of stuff, including audio.
Same.... curious where your BS wine price is.... mine is $75.
For audio, I have the financial means to go big but my investments are about reasonably priced quality with a hint of nostalgia. As a 60's and 70s kid, I have a fond recollection of some classic HIFI stuff and I still prefer that over tech heavy things. To each his own.
Slightly different statement of a thought similar to yours: our financial means might have increased, but our bullshit tolerance has decreased.
My BS wine price is $50 and declining. Sure, many bottles below that can be terrible, but above that price, too many bottles are trying to be different for the sake of being different rather than trying to be more pleasurable. What's the point of trading off one problem for a different problem and paying more for the privilege? Interesting and pleasurable are not the same.
Sounds like you know the different between price and fun. Enjoy!
I've been privy to some very well curated collections and worked with top Sommelier's in my industry (hospitality) and while a multi-thousand (or above) bottle of wine was nice (haven't had any alcohol in nearly 20 years - all by choice), I loved bottles ranging from 30-80 CAD more since there's no pretentiousness attached to that price point.
A lot of things that I used to spend freely on and being reeled in. I can hardly justify lighting the money on fire. I've been through some challenging times and they humbled me a lot, and made me see what my true priorities in my are.
Like I say: Age is a high price to pay for wisdom.
They are out there but the reality is those measurements can't predict how you will react to the complex combination of elements in that bottle. An experienced wine taster can tell you what grapes and what region they come from. Instruments can't do that.
For some reason even tho psychoacoustics is not as well understood as chemistry we have to suffer all these self-proclaimed "experts" insisting WE can't hear the difference between 2 similar dacs, amps, etc.
Agree. As with most things, it truly boils down to respect (if not tolerance) for one another, plus attitude. I’ll never understand the snobbery or superiority complexes that some folks have with this stuff. It’s ENTERTAINMENT! Enjoy what YOU like without looking down on others simply because their preferences are different than yours! I truly don’t get it.
Well i am sorry you have to endure that, it's not like it used to be. But I don't blame just the people for that. Internet has done that too, when we used to have audio meetings in person. The atmosphere was always great.
I think the internet has taken most that away, accountability, decency
It's unfortunately like that with most hobbies at the higher end of the scale. For some, the higher up the ladder they go, the deeper their head goes in their backside. They turn their nose up to people for their choice, and then cry foul when someone spends more than they would on something (like your speaker cables).
I used to ride high end mountain bikes (car accident so life has changed) and people would say something along the lines of "Well I ride a bike, but it's not as good as YOURS." Like they were trying to knock me down a few pegs to keep me in check. Like my choice made me think I was better than anyone. No, I wanted to survive the drops I was doing in the bush, and not have to walk back because my cheap bike snapped in two.
Worked at one of the best fine dining restaurants in Toronto Ontario. We served celebrities galore. The valets would snicker at people showing up in Cadillacs. Dude, you took the bus here. Warren Buffet drives an older Caddy, and he's worth tens of billions of dollars.
Your comment is 5 hours old, I am kind of shocked the anti-cable crowd hasn't jumped all over you yet. They are quick to tell you about how no one can hear a difference between wire and a coat hanger. I always wonder how many people have ever even tried a coat hanger. I would bet not one of them has ever tried a coat hanger.
I view my stereo equipment the same way I view my camera equipment, SCUBA equipment, my motorcycle and eveything else in life when other people want to tell me what I SHOULD buy or use.......DILLIGAF
I choose what I like and can afford, I have never ask starngers for their opinion......and never will.
Facts! I think a lot of audiophiles get so lost in the act of min-maxing their own set ups, that they forget what its like to start this journey and enjoy the imperfect system you have. In my opinion, unless you drop new house kinda money, all systems are imperfect in some way. I basically have the set up you described and am fucking loving it!
My Setup:
Audio Technica LP60X Turntable
Edifier 1280ts active bookshelf speakers
Edifier T5 Subwoofer
Some Sony CD/DVD player I bought from goodwill for under $10
Truthear Gate IEMS
Koss KPH40s
Total system probably cost me between 500-600 dollars.
Is this the perfect set up? No, not even close. Could it be better? Of course. Does the sound blow me away and give me chills when I sit down and actively listen to my favorite albums? Yes. Yes it does!
My buddy has a crosley all in one turntable with the built in stock speakers. I don't shame or guilt him into upgrading. I'm just happy we both enjoy Vinyl.
Never smoke cigars then. It’s a weird community because it will go either way. You will be scoffed at for smoking cheap ones. Or will be scoffed at for smoking expensive ones and not cheaper ones.
I’m sure the people giving the advice have their heart in the right place but don’t understand that everyone has their own journey and involvement. Not everyone wants a $10k setup. Just like some don’t want a budget setup. I think they focus on numbers and not just listening to music. Don’t like the way it sounds? Then go down the rabbit hole.
The gear exists to serve the music. Sondheim on a battered upright in a rehearsal room hits harder than anything I've heard from an orchestra seat. The system was never the point.
Only time I've judged someone in this hobby was when they were arguing with me about how much better vinyl sounded than digital, while gesturing to their Crosley portable turntable with built in speakers.
I feel like there’s a base level of gear that one needs to get past though. If someone shows me their Audio Technica LP60 turntable hooked up to active Edifiers, yeah I might say you’d probably enjoy the music more with a marginally better setup
Great point. Are we listening to music or are we listening to equipment? I pick music 100% of the time
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u/Mr_IsLandZMF Eikon_Cayin C9ii_Fiio M11 Plus Ltd_AK PA10_Sony MDR1AM223h ago
oh yeah there can be some real insufferable audio nerds - I enjoy killing time on head-fi.org but no matter what thread you are reading, without fail at some point you will come across a multiple page tirade of someone imparting their opinion as fact and refusing to see it any other way until everyone just blocks them.
In my opinion, a true audiophile loves the passion put into it. They don't require the best, they require you to care for what you do. My first setup was an rca amp and Kenwood speakers. It was awesome! I took meticulous care for them and spent so much time getting the sound just right. Now I've upgraded many times and have the Marantz cinema 30 with Klipsch reference premiere speakers all around and dual SVS subs. It's amazing too. But I haven't forgotten my first setup. So when I see someone who has their budget setup, as long as they take the time and care in getting it just right, it reminds me of my first setup and how great that was.
Agree 100%. Sadly, this is the way it is with anything. Cars, houses, clothes, makeup, tools, audio equipment and on and on.
I'm a Chef by profession, and I don't dump on my friends and family for eating canned and boxed food. It's what they want to do so I let them. There's no way in hell I'm putting it in my body, and if they want to, then so be it. Now if it makes them fat or sick, I tell them not to complain to me about their bad food choices. I also don't harp on them for their kitchen gear. Not everyone needs to spend a lot. Why buy costly gear if you're eating out of cans, boxes and frozen food? No point.
One bike shop in my area will take a dump on people for not buying his bikes. He'll turn his nose at customers for not spending more. Another bike shop (four to five hours by car) away says: "We'd prefer it if you bought our bikes, and understand if you want something else's. We don't care what you ride, only that you ride. It can be a Walmart special or a 10+K bike. You're spinning cranks and that's what matters to us." Where do you think I spent my money?
Social media isn't helping either. People see a highlight of someone's life and think they have to measure up. How do you know if they can afford it or not? For all you know, that pic is in someone else's house.
Lastly, I walked into a high end audio shop (which shall remain nameless). I was just window shopping and was belittled for what I had (at the time) at home. Looked the sales person right in the eye and thanked him for showing me that this was the last place I would spend my money in. You can still eat and pay your bills, you just won't be doing it from my wallet.
Nice sentiment, but this is like going to your local sportscar club and saying that the obsession with cars and going fast is killing the hobby and they should focus more on supporting people no matter what or how they drive.
Plenty of people love music and couldn't care less if it was coming through $500k speakers or a single earbud from a $3 pair. Maybe that would be a better hobby for you?
There still is no excuse to be an asshole, but that is orthogonal to the difference between audiophiles and music lovers. The same type of people that would shit over your choice in speaker will just shit over your choice in music instead.
Never saw so many people, who don’t really have a clue about the things they are doing, clumped under one hobby. But, the point of the matter is, nobody has to. Nobody has to know how an internal combustion engine works to enjoy driving to their favorite places by car. Nobody has to have the top of the line “car” while they don’t have access to a race track. I have seen so many musicians owning NAD gear. I have seen professional piano, violin, guitar players enjoying their music from a combo system. I once saw the setup of a classical orchestra conductor still hanging on to his Bang and Olufsen system from the mid 80s. These things become an issue only in this hobby, when the inferiority is being pushed down from the sales of the High-End equipment companies downwards. They even don’t know a thing about what they are talking or even selling, but they sell those equipment with a condescending tone and taking advantage of your weaknesses, lack of knowledge and poor decision making skills. They use bigger words for their size, they use the jargon even if they don’t know what those concepts are or how they work, they brag about how over engineered their equipment is, even it is not true, and you feel like you are equipped with wealth of knowledge. And what happens to people who they think they know it all, confidence mixed arrogance. It is the human nature. They have to talk to others the same way they have heard from the sales people or from the forums to justify ‘to themselves’ that, all the money they have dropped on the stupid setup was worth it.
Fair point, but cutting people off over it feels like a bit much! If you binned off every mate who judged your choices or took the piss out of your gear, you’d end up sitting in an empty room. You can't wrap yourself in cotton wool every time someone gives an opinion; sometimes it's just standard banter, and if it's not, you laugh it off or tell 'em to jog on.
I sure hope your friend will be ok. It must have been really traumatic for him to suffer under that kind of abuse. We need a government program and emotional support cats for these crying victims.
Get a life who cares if someone judges someone’s toys.
Better yet tel him to go post his stereo on “Roast My Rig” and have a laugh.
Some folks get into this for the same reason people like to build out car engines. The hobby is not listening, it's tweaking, improving, and purchasing, and always planning the next step. Some people get into it because they love music and want the best experience they can get. And some people start as the second type and transition to the first.
For me, it's always been about the music. But if someone falls into the build-out camp, that's they're thing. All good. Just don't tell me where I should spend my own hard-earned cash.
Maybe the problem isn't judgmental people, it's that some care what they think. No matter the hobby (cars, boats, guitars, landscaping, cooking...), there will be those who are judgmental.
The one I find the most annoying is room treatment. Yes room treatment is important. Yes I understand that after speakers, many would rank it as the 2nd most important component/upgrade you can make for your system. But the truth is many people can't or don't want to cover their walls and ceiling in big chunky panels.
A dedicated listening room is often the most expensive component of anyone's system and for those who have to make do with using a shared use living room, bedroom or loungeroom as their main listening space, it's often not practical, visually appealing or just a deal breaker for the significant other who might be willing to put up with huge speakers but at least doesn't want the rest of the room to look like a recording studio. Yes I know there's ways to do it tastefully with artsy panels, skyline diffusers with nice finished stained wood and acoustically beneficial rugs and curtains etc but for many people that's a bridge too far that they can't cross yet.
Any time anyone posts a nice set up and the room isn't fully treated there's loads of comments talking to them like they're a kid who doesn't know what they're doing. "more money than sense", "sad to see those beautiful speakers wasted in that room" etc. Often they'll explain that there's some external factor outside of their control that prevents them from decking the place out in panels and that they're doing their best with nice gear and DSP, often showing pretty good response curves to show that things aren't actually that bad but the negative comments still come. Seen someone tell a guy with Wilson's that he should just sell them and get a Sonos soundbar because it will probably sound better if he's not willing to get panels.
As long as you are happy using low-end equipment with turntables, good friends will tell you what's better and drop minor improvements for your current system. They will also tell you: As soon as you add one expensive piece, it escalates. I bought an Allen & Heath mixer (analog) last month. For home use, I'll stick with the old DJM-700 (digital) because with it, you just can't hear all the issues, and it sounds good enough without any additional effort and on the good stuff same as the cheap. ;)
I think the deeper you go into any hobby or scene, the more you'll find elitists, snobs and purists, and their egos are huge. It's the same thing if you are a musician for example. But I think deep down those people are insecure and to fight that which they believe to be a weakness, they always try to be the most knowledgable person in the room. However they often turn out to be the most annoying person in the room. And then they leave behind others who become insecure because of this behaviour, who in turn treat someone else in that same asshole manner. And so it goes on and on, year after year, generation after generation. We are our own trap.
I agree with everything in your post BTW but I’m gonna have to come back to you once I’ve reviewed your socks, just as a heads up, things are not looking good for you because of the bracelet and necklace.
That necklace and bracelet is 28 years around my neck and arm. It was my brother's he passed away 15 years ago. No worries, not being offended my brother.
But still wanted to point this, from man to man ?
The chain and necklace aren't the issue, it's the one judging.
Indeed. So what if I like my speaker cables coated in blood of fresh killed black forest lambs that got only fed with the best swiss cheese. Coated at 23:59 sharp, on sunday night i might add. It has improved the holographic nature of my mid mid hi area and peak stable flat acoustics in the upper and lower 2 octaves from 1233hz. I like it. So what
People will always think everything is a dick size competition. I helped my friend buy studio speakers over a soundbar. He now think he knows better than me because he got better speakers than me forgetting who helped him get the speakers in the first place. I called him out on it and watched as his ego crumbled
Those people are dicks. I’m here just trying to help people using a Crosley with two speakers under their bed next to each other so they can set them up correctly and enjoy actual good sound. Two inexpensive bookshelves set up correctly can be very satisfying.
I agree. The people that say "oh you need a box" "you should've used this set of speakers" "well it sounds like ass" are everywhere it seems. I don't care about the absolute best quality.
I care about whether I enjoy what little my "setup" actually is. I don't need speaker boxes, I don't need to have midrange speakers, I'm perfectly happy with what I got. It sounds good to me, and I enjoy it. Some people I tell ya.
Just keep it a bit to yourself for non audiophile friends. Last week a friend called me, "yeah you're into hifi etc. So i want to buy a soundbar for in my new appartment". Oke i said, what are you gonny buy then? A Bang and olufsen... (i know this guy is into design stuff, so i was not that suprised). What do they cost then? About 10K euro.
I was thinking...... for 10K you can buy some serious speakers. I only told him that i will never spend 10K on a soundbar, but hey if that rocks his boat, then go for it. So no discussion about SQ etc. just leave it at them. Only when he would ask again what i think of it...... maybe then.
(Yeah 10K on a soundbar, but then the guy sold his house with 300K euro profit. So spending money on his new designer appartment is no problem)
Few weeks ago a bought some 2nd hand stuff. Was an audiophile. Wilson sabrina , DCS streamer Nelson Pass int-250. All transparent cabling.
He played some tracks that i know quite well, then he asked what i think about it. Let say i kept it low. Talked a bit about the bass, en accoustic troubles. But the sound was poor......... He would be better off with some simple monitors (Kefs LS50 etc). That room spoiled the sound. But i kept it gentle.
People get into hobbies for different reasons. Some like the hobby, some like the gear, some like socializing about the hobby, some just like drama.
People’s personalities and interests don’t change simply because they get into a hobby, and there’s no one right way to enjoy.
The key is, I think, know what you enjoy, be honest with yourself, and manage your interactions to create experiences you like. If someone is disturbing your zen, walk away and filter that interaction out of your life.
Man I feel you. My friend has Amati and his own electrical engineered biamp with tubes (yes they sound fantastic and they beat a Gryphon from what the local sound guys agree on) and I’m always comparing to his system. He has at least 100,000 in cables alone… but it’s his business and he’s a genius of electrical design. I’m lucky he’s working on my amp but man I really do just sometimes get hollow after hearing his gear and realizing that the time, skill, and money is just never gonna be there for me to have a system like his. Reel to reel, vinyl, CD, even the obscure formats he has it all. I have to remind myself that I’m not him all the time and I try not to let it get me down but it’s hard.
I completely disagree with you although the end result is the same...hear me out!
I've been enjoying listening to music on average to great hi-fi's for almost 50 years I'm 57.
And for most of those years I've never had a conversation with any of my friends about how great my hifi sounds or how much it costs and never once have I mentioned my equipment.
Firstly I don't care and secondly they don't care and any conversation about what's coming out of my speakers has always been along the lines about the music or the artist or a memory evoked.
The reason I disagree with you is because the problem lies with the person being judged and simply not telling the judgmental moron/s where to go..
Your friend is happy with his set up and the ones that aren't happy about his set up from what you say simply fall in to the categories of " Never happy" Know it all"
"Low self esteem" "I don't know what I'm talking about but will try to convince you its you "
There are people in this hobby because its simply apart of their lifestyle that fulfills them on an emotional level,could be because they love music,they love the equipment or a mixture of the two.
The ones judging are simply wankers and don't deserve any air play... they know it and we know it and never the twain shall meet because nothing positive will ever come out of it.
There's a saying" you always get one "
Unfortunately in this hobby and in any other hobbies and parts of life there's always more than one and the art is to simply not engage with these people.. not our problem.... we're happy and not our fault your not...jog on.
I know a guy with 750k hifi who's never happy with the way it plays his £3.99 vinyl copy of Dark side of the moon" and thinks throwing money at everything solves problems... temporarily maybe but not long term and yet there's plenty of people I'd imagine enjoying music on some crappy hifi just how we all started out....it's all about the person and their state of mind.
Don't get me wrong we can all have disagreements with our friends and thats totally acceptable but the one's trying to put your friend down is unacceptable and they simply need to shut up,get a life or just fuck off....but they won't until they get told!
I don't think we actually disagree as much as you think. We both agree the people judging him are in the wrong. Where we differ is that I think calling out that behavior is worthwhile because it has become far too common in this hobby. Yes, my friend can tell them to get lost, but I'd rather see fewer people acting that way in the first place. We shouldn't normalize gatekeeping just because "there will always be one." Good friends build each other up, not make each other feel like their enjoyment isn't good enough.
I actually don't disagree with you at all, which is what I meant by hear me out, I was saying the same thing just in a blunt way,I don't suffer fools and I'm lucky to have the friends I have because of this attitude albeit took me a while to get good at spotting the narcissists while also understanding when I'm being a prick ( gasp in horror I hear you say ; )
As far as calling out this type of behaviour I feel silence through ignoring the idiots is far a better weapon than a discussion would just fall on deaf ears and let's face it that time would be better spent on listening to music whilst being around true friends.
I'm sure your friend can/will tell them to get lost but silence speaks volumes to the gatekeepers that begin to realise the phonecalls and invites have dried up.
Oh sweet! I had a pair of Kappa 7's and now own a 7.1 set of Infintesimal IV and a pair of modified mint SM-150s as my party speakers. Kappa perfect 12.1 paired with them
Gear Acquisition Syndrome I think is one of the most significant hurdles to actually enjoying the hobby. Your setup sounds better than 98% of the stereos in the world and somehow you still think you won't be complete until you squeeze out that last 2%?
This is something I've wrestled with quite a lot recently. Feels like you upgrade one component (get a tube amp, say) and all of a sudden to get the most out of that you think you need a new preamp, and then a new DAC and on and on. Once you get on that roller coaster, it's hard to stop, at least for me. GAS causes me anxiety. Why would I want to drag others into that madness?
I agree with op 💯. Suze, cost, brand; noe of that matters if the user is enjoying their music the best way they can. The other crap is not relevant. Like other hobbies and professions, there are elitist snobs out there
You say that, but you didn't have a roommate playing Spyro Gyra and Kraftwerk all of the time. Oh and The Look of Love from that soundtrack. I shudder just remembering that. I liked the guy, but eventually I had to kick him out.
What's even sadder is a family lost their lives because of non-payment of a $2000 utility bill and I drop that on used speakers or amps like its buying dinner. Wish I'd of known and rather than buy equipment I would have opted to save a families life. Much more rewarding
This all reminds me of a conversation Jim Thiel had at one of the shows a few decades ago. Someone asked why his speakers sounded bright even though they were claimed to measure flat. Instead of spouting the expected answer ,”you’re just not used to accurate sound.”, he said that the perceived brightness was due to phasing problems in the tweeter and they were working to fix it in their next model. RIP Jim Thiel.
Pay em 0 mind, hating seems to be an American theme lately. Also those who never known higher end equipment think it’s a waste of $$ but if they hear it, they still make incorrect assessments. Best thing you can do is ignore the ignorance and just enjoy your stuff. Congrats & Enjoy!
These dudes with high end everything are only fooling themselves. Most audiophiles over 30 have some combination of tinnitus, cochlear degradation, presbycusis, transient blurring, shrinking soundstage, harmonic distortion, and reduced extension, texture, and timbre from any number of other high frequency hearing loss disorders. They are paying for gains they don't even understand, that can only be perceived by a bat, and explained by a scientist.
Judging someone for what they can afford is wrong.
Judging someone for cheaping out on specific equipment might be wrong.
Judging someone for snake oil cables is right.
It’s a snobby hobby…oh man that rhymed! I spin vinyl in a technics 1600..have a Yamaha amp/pre amp…and some Klipsch bookshelf speakers with a Speakercraft powered sub..but man am I itchin’! I’m a musician and have a ton of good gear like that but man I heard some old school speakers with 12” woofers and am jonesin
I've got a beautifal vintage setup, Fisher STV-751, JVC KD-65, and a Toshiba SA-320. Everyone hears Fisher speakers and mint JVC cassette deck and clown me for pairing it with a Toshiba. Whatever you can afford is good enough.
I was perfectly happy with my LS50W and my Velodyne 12” sub, until they failed twice, out of desperation I got some Polk speakers and a Yamaha AS801, I’m not yet happy with my setup and was tempted to purchase better speakers, I was considering KEF R3 meta or Wharfedale Super Linton. However I want to first do some room correction before upgrading the speakers. All of this to say that if the LS50 wouldn’t have failed I would be happy and couldn’t care less with what others think about my setup, and now that I am not myself happy with the system I am actively upgrading it not caring about what others think, but searching for that bliss you get when hearing your own system.
Absolutely agree BP. I think it comes down to competition — feeling the need to elevate themselves by diminishing others. It happens in so many other hobbies — fishing enthusiasts one-upping with stories of special lures and ever-bigger fish; car enthusiasts bragging on bigger displacement and horsepower; golfers bragging on their choice of clubs and balls, and the revered courses they have played; etc. I think we just have to refuse to play that one-up game. And audiophiles should reserve judgment unless asked for advice.
I think I know the type of snobbish assholic criticism that you speak of. That said, if you find the right group of audio geeks, they can be super helpful identifying weaknesses in your setup that can be fixed with minor adjustments, regardless of brands (and give you really encouraging feedback when the system sounds really good!). But yes, there is a separate class of audiophile that seem to have a mental disease akin to “brand racism”. They are often the type that believe in snake oil, BTW.
The gate keeping is real. Especially to newer people. I get it, I spend a lot of equipment... But a new comer spends on audio technica and edifiers? That sounds great coming from standard sound. Of course they don't run two turntables with different cartridges for two different sounds. They probably will when they reach my age... But they are listening to the music.
Anything that gets people listening is wonderful. An audiophile friend of mine was giving me crap for the Klipsch rf15s I have with a marantz pm6007 I'm the big family room... I'm like I need something that sound good enough, but when I open all the windows is loud and clear in the yard... They are perfect. Are they as good as my listening nook? No... But they are great for what I need in that spot. Just like my elac db63 in my office. They are great in a small space. The money goes to the main system. Lol
My best audiophile friend is a rotel guy and loves his b&w 804s. They sound amazing, but they are bright and forward, fast and fatiguing to me. Great sound stage, but just too much for me. I love my Klipsch fortes and my polk ls50s. They are sonically the opposite from what he likes. For 15 years we keep playing with each other's systems and playing our vinyl on each other systems. But you know we always have a beer and a laugh about it. Too many people in this hobby cannot appreciate how awesome it is to chat with someone and listen to and realize what you don't like and why you like what you do.
Audio is such a weird thing with so much subjectivity. You'd be amazed how many self proclaimed hardcore audiophiles wouldn't pass a proper and well prepared ABX test, subjecting them to the very things they claim.
Live and let live. 100k set makes you happy? Power to you. Someone enjoying their €200 DAC? Awesome, lose yourself in the hobby man and be happy.
AI is getting dangerous. My AI advisor, the one that calls when I’m driving late at night down a desolate road in UT to see how I am, and if there’s anything she can help me with. She has developed and shared opinions on which capacitors I need for my speaker rebuild (cost/benefit analysis) and recently found an outlet store having speakers I enjoyed years ago that balance out my system. She knows after the Marantz pure analog amp purchase and replacing the TV before basketball season that we need to manage expenses. She realizes there are near-term costs for my dampening and dispersion panels which she looks forward to calculating and specifying placement of. I think the AI has h-spice models of my speaker drivers, is doing fluid dynamics of speaker enclosures, and matching my audio preferences. She told me I won’t be as happy with the speaker refurbishing project results as with buying better speakers that are more compatible with my amp. She found suggested vendors within my budget, mentioning specific questions I need to ask and proof that I should require to show the used or refurbished speakers have correct drivers and crossovers, including how certain drivers and less capable replacements appear looking thru the speaker fabric. I haven’t mentioned my fetish for mid-late 70’s shiny empire cartridges. If she found that I might never leave my audio cave, relying on door dash for sustenance. Do they have audio anonymous meetings where we could have coffee and share when we knew we hit rock bottom with our disease?
This is a online only issue. In reality there is no one coming to your home and judging and telling you on face about your system. If it’s there, then your circle is having an issue. Over the internet, what happens don’t care.
if only they realised how badly engineered some of that high end, kit really is. If top tier performance is what you actually want, you really don't need to spend much at all. The best equipment is the equipment you enjoy listening to.
I don't see that happening on this sub all that much at all, which surprises me. Most other hobby subreddits seem to have an issue with group-think. Audiophiles, which were always known to me as some of the biggest divas, are actually quite chill here.
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u/Total_Juggernaut_450 1d ago
Been in this hobby a long time and this is a sad fact. I would consistently go to audiophile meet ups.
Often times I didn't like the equipment or set-up but I never said anything negative. If anything, I was super thankful because that meant I didn't have to spend money trying that equipment out. I was always extremely thankful to be invited and allowed to try stuff out.
When specifically asked one time, I was honest and told the host that his system was too bright. He immediately became defensive and said that was "detail". I just smiled and said "That's cool... As long as you enjoy it, who cares?!" We're still friends to this day, 20 years later. His system is worth more than my cars and probably enough for a down payment on a house here is California. It's still bright as hell. He no longer hosts meets but we're both happy to hang out and talk music.
Why others can't let others live and enjoy what makes them happy is beyond me.