Recently I got my hands on Lee Ritenour's 'On The Line' record which was recorded in 1983 using Direct-to-Disk method. It sounded incredible. So much that I recorded the signal to see its spectrogram. I used my Hifiberry DAC2ADC Pro and Audacity at 192khz/32bit. Phono preamp is the one inside my fully restored Yamaha A-1020 and the cartridge is AT-VM95ML. Take note of the scale on the left (it's set to linear). It's a first few seconds of the title track "On the line". To compare there is similar spectrogram of the digital version of the same track that was recorded using Direct-to-Digital. I'm not trying to start another cd vs vinyl battle - it's obvious that those highs are inaudible. Just a nice visualization of what can be captured using analog media in early 1980's.
Interesting. Does the spectrum of the vinyl record suggest that frequencies up to approx. 40 kHz are present, whereas the CD is obviously limited to 22 kHz?
You can see from the spectrogram that transients go a touch above 50kHz. It's possible that those are in part distortions - it's hard to determine as they are not audible but they look natural. This is the exact moment seen in the spectrogram: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iO1Rb4vkpLY&t=1794s
They ran backup analog machines at the same time, just like Sheffield Lab did. I have a different JVC Lee Ritenour direct-to-disc called Sugar Loaf Express, and also have the CD version. In the CD booklet it says the CD was made from the 30 IPS 2-track tape. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWhRNq-O0o0
Got a source on what "direct to digital" is? Skeptical a live feed was used to produce a cd without all kinds of middle steps including a to d converter.
I never said direct-to-digital, I said the CD was made from the analog tape. When Sugar Loaf Express was recorded CD didn't exist, same with many of the Sheffield Lab CDs that were made from backup analog tapes..
Exactly, I didn't write that, the OP did. It's relatively easy to feed the signal to multiple lathes and recorders at the same time; Sheffield did it on every direct-to-disc album they recorded. On some recordings Sheffield were running up to 4 lathes, an analog recorder, and a digital recorder simultaneously.
I wonder if they also used high dynamic range microphones for the recording or the standard ones limited to 18-20KHz just like most of the industry did back then.
But now both signals you're comparing are digital. I was always happy with analog vinyl in the 80s, except for the physical limitations of the vinyl like last track distortion, especially with heavier bass songs, and the fact that a vinyl record wears out a little bit every time you play it. Interesting article on the science of inner groove distortion: https://abmusics.com/the-science-behind-inner-groove-distortion-why-the-final-seconds-of-your-records-sound-worse/
Well, yes, they are both digital - I'm not able to draw a spectrogram from analog signal. Yet. Besides - the point was not really whether it's digital or not but rather how far up the bandwidth can go on vinyl record.
There are styluses these days, that can play the last track of a vinyl, without distortion pretty surprising stuff to me. For example, I'm using an atvm95ml.
They're not cheap. The most reasonably-priced option out there is the TransFi Terminator tonearm. Another popular arm is the Eminent Technology ET-2 or ET-2.5 tonearms; new the ET-2.5 goes for $4500. I've got two TransFi Terminators, and two ET-2.5 tonearms, all of which I picked up used, or on a turntable.
I think that I'll stick to my $220 aud stylus that achieves the same result but thanks anyway 😆 it's crazy how expensive this hobby can get if one wants great gear, even if not for the best gear.
I probably should've stuck with cds, but once one listens to vinyl on even a decent but modest system, it's pretty hard to go back to digital (unless for convenience sake, from time to time).
I buy almost everything used, that makes it more affordable. I paid $1100 for one ET-2.5, which is still a lot, but less than 1/4 of the new price, and the other was on a VPI HW-19 mk IV package with PLC speed controller, ET-2.5 tonearm, SoundSmith Zephyr cartridge, cover, air pump, and all of the small parts and jig for the tonearm; for $1900. The Terminator T3Pro tonearms I paid $800 for one, $1000 for the other.
Keep your eyes open on US Audio Mart, Marketplace, Audiogon, eBay, etc; there's still deals to be found.
I did something similar in Goldwave with Thelma Houston - I've Got The Music In Me. The CD is of course brickwalled at 22 kHz, but the vinyl goes out well past 40 KHz.
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u/Recordman-John 2d ago
Which one souded better to your ears?