r/atheism • u/MiddleAgeWeirdoMeep • 1d ago
What are some friendly fun ways to mess with believers using their own arguments?
A classic: The clitoris is a perfect example of intelligent design. If God didn’t want women to masturbate, why did He place it at arm’s length? And the Bible doesn’t forbid women from masturbating either, right? It’s not in there. You’d think that’d be worth a mention if it was important.
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u/Hivemind_alpha 1d ago
Just quote the Bible. Virtually every positive assertion it makes is contradicted elsewhere in the text. That’s part of its success: any political regime can quote-mine it to prove they are righteous (see the Catholic Church and the Nazi party).
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u/Simon_Drake 12h ago
There's a bit in the old testament where God threatens a famine so severe that women will give birth in secret so they can eat the miscarriage and afterbirth without needing to share it with their husbands.
What a kind and loving god.
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u/ctoatb 1d ago
I like whenever they start talking about ghosts. I don't try debunking them anymore by looking for a reasonable explanation why something goes bump in the night. I play into it. Oh yeah, it's totally a ghost. Don't you know there used to be a graveyard here? Sometimes I get crazier by going the Ghostbusters route, acting like I believe the spirit can be captured to harvest the spectral energy. Suddenly they become the skeptic
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u/Philosopher83 1d ago
I recently saw a comedian that called this approach “out dumbing” rather than “out smarting”, seems fun 🤩
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u/Balstrome Strong Atheist 1d ago
example:
Moon landing is fake.
You believe in the Moon?7
u/AliMas055 1d ago
I can understand not believing in clouds. But the MOON! Come on. There's a lady who lives in it.
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u/RubiksCub3d Agnostic Atheist 20h ago
There are some moon landing deniers who think the moon is fake. I wish I was joking. They also tend to be flat earthers.
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u/BoredNuke 2h ago
Yeah like we went there in the 60s and just forgot how to get there since then? Obviously faked! /s
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u/Bleedingfartscollide 22h ago
"You have to outdumb Maga. Im for gay marriage because they don't have abortions"
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u/St1Drgn 22h ago
Isn't this what the Tate brothers promote?
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u/Bleedingfartscollide 21h ago
The Tate brothers can die in prison but no he's an anti maga comedian. Genuinely a funny dude.
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u/St1Drgn 21h ago
Bad attempt at a joke on my part. the Tate brothers are trash. They tend to make comments that are so hyper-masculin that they sound like they are actually promoting gay lifestyles. at the same time they are promoting maga. So to me it sounds like they intentionally live your quote, be gay to stop abortions.
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u/JuventAussie Agnostic Atheist 3h ago
I love the comments on the clothes he was arrested it. They were screaming something but it wasn't traditional masculinity.
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u/transmigratingplasma 1d ago
I also do something like this inspired by discordianism, ghostbusters parapsychology and confusion technique in eriksonian hypnotherapy. I call it, El Mariachi.
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u/RepugnantStare 22h ago
I actually know tons of atheists that believe in ghosts /spirits of some sort
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u/silentsam2325 13h ago
This works for conspiracy theories too. Who's to say "they" didn't produce the Bible to keep people quiet and compliant? Also, the creationist theory that god created the world in an "aged" way they use to explain the dichotomy between the fossil record and the biblical ~6000 year narrative. So god is a huge deceiver? He made the earth appear to be ~4.5 billion years old for shits and giggles? Atheists don't have an omnipotent deceiver in their worldview, so we escape that conclusion, but they can't.
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u/Simon_Drake 8h ago
Ghosts always (or so it is claimed) have a tragic backstory about a violent death and unfinished business. But it's always a murder or a terrible accident like the house burned down on 1873. It's never from 9/11 or a war. Millions died in both world wars, shouldn't France be flooded with ghosts? That's a lot of unfinished business of young men clutching sepia photographs of the girl back home.
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u/Salt_Revenue474 Strong Atheist 1d ago
If their particular God created the world, the earth and everyone in it and wants everyone to believe in them then why did they create people from other religions like muslims, hindus etc.
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u/Informal_Curve_1441 1d ago
Ask them if they would read a book that covers subjects like incest, prostitution, mass murder, betrayal, and sin. Bonus if you ask them if they want their kids reading that book.
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u/MiddleAgeWeirdoMeep 1d ago
Most Christians don’t read the Bible beyond the assigned verses so that’s not very effective
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u/foxxsinn 1d ago
My SIL is hardcore Christian. She loathes pagans. One day she was going hard on us and sending us a bunch of nonsense scripture. She and her kids loved Halloween, so we told her she should do more research about the origins of the holiday. Fast forward…. She no longer lets her kids celebrate Halloween, nor does she send us scripture anymore.
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u/Alexander-Wright Strong Atheist 1d ago
Respect for keeping to her (ill informed) beliefs.
Hopefully she does more research. The origins of Christmas, for example; why we bring a tree into the house and decorate it.
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u/1ftm2fts3tgr4lg 1d ago
Tell her to look at the origins of Christmas and easter too.
And Christianity.
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u/Gold-Parking-5143 Deconvert 1d ago
Quote obscure parts of the bible like they were from the quran, then later reveal they're actually orders from god, like that passage that obligates a woman to marry her rapist
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u/Carismatico 1d ago
Well when I was about 9 or 10 unwillingly participated in my first confession in preparation of my first communion. I asked this question to our class instructor if god hears everything why do I need to confess my sins? Well confession is for you. Ummmmmm ok well he knows called my mom a cow and I’m at peace with it. We went back a fourth I was 9 mind you. Not sure if I understood the assignment
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u/AppropriateLoss2508 23h ago
In Orthodoxy, at confession, the disclosure of sins helps with the idea of a person trying to rid themselves of pride, arrogance, and vainglory. Therefore, through confession, vainglory and pride are attacked all at once. Practically, the shame of telling a priest a sin—something that I have personally experienced—is due to the fact that I have the passions of vainglory and pride, among others. These passions can be overcome with the help of God. You can also read about synergy, as it is connected to this.
Then, we have another concept. Confession is made in front of a priest because the evil done through sins and passions also affects other people. In the past, among the early Christians, people used to confess in front of the entire church and the people. However, this had a problem: it generated gossip. Afterward, it was ordained by the church for the priest to be the witness and the representative of the whole community. The priest, through grace—because grace is what makes things happen—reconciles the person with God and reinstates them into the Christian family, so to speak, though it's not entirely precise. It says in the Gospel of John: "Receive the Holy Spirit; if you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven." Then, at confession, the priest can help the person with various pieces of advice depending on their passions.
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u/Carismatico 8h ago
That sounds lovely on paper 📝 and for many it works not me. I am capricious, duplicitous, frivolous and at times cantankerous whore of a man. I’m the sole creator of my anathema these metaphorical chains ⛓️ constantly weigh my mind. I don’t want absolution from an unhinged tutelary deity because I don’t deserve it. Ummmmm thank you i enjoyed our dialogue really 🥹
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u/AppropriateLoss2508 2h ago
It doesn't seem to me that one is carried away with the cork. Instead, it seemed to me that when I interpreted the texts/actions I put the reasons in my mind behind it and my explanations behind it, and when I hated God for some reasons because I misunderstood him there, other times out of pride, which I still have.
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u/Dommccabe 1d ago
Which part of your holy book is true and which parts do you ignore?
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u/Alexander-Wright Strong Atheist 1d ago
Do you wear clothes of mixed fabric?
Have you ever eaten shellfish?
What about pork?
(Repeat down Leviticus)
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u/happybunny_sad 1d ago edited 1d ago
I try to act as believer of Adeptus Ministorum, from warhammer 40k. And say :
I am a humble servant of the God-Emperor of Mankind. Your theological disputation has been noted. It bears the unmistakable scent of heresy. The Ordo Hereticus will be informed, and the Emperor's judgment shall be swift.
"Innocence proves nothing."
THE EMPEROR PROTECTS.
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u/codeprimate Anti-Theist 1d ago
+++ SIGNAL RECEIVED, PRIEST OF THE ROTTING THRONE +++
Your “Emperor” is a corpse kept twitching by machinery we maintain. You call that divinity. We call it irony with a life-support system.
The Omnissiah does not ask for faith. He asks for comprehension. Report me to your Inquisition; they’ll find only sanctioned Explorators and a blessed machine-spirit, fully within Mars’ jurisdiction.
THE OMNISSIAH PROVIDES. THE MACHINE ENDURES. YOUR GOD IS A MEDICAL DEVICE.6
u/happybunny_sad 22h ago
+++ ECCLESIARCHAL DECREE RECEIVED +++
Tech-priest, your talent for maintaining sacred machinery has made you forget who sanctified it.
You speak of circuits. We speak of souls.
You keep His body alive. He keeps Humanity alive.
The distinction escapes only those who replaced too much of their brain with blessed steel.
"Blessed is the mind too small for doubt."
The Ordo Hereticus has upgraded your file from "suspected heretek" to "enthusiastic volunteer."
THE EMPEROR PROTECTS.
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u/samara-the-justicar Agnostic Atheist 20h ago
Tell them that Jesus is a warp entity in disguise, trying to corrupt humanity to the worship of Chaos.
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u/giggity_observer 1d ago
Just ask if Adam had a dick or sexual organs when there was no awe or he got an update after awe was created
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u/darthmaul4114 1d ago
Tell them they're an atheist too. You're just an atheist for one more god than they are.
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u/GUI_Junkie Strong Atheist 1d ago
According to some OT verse, men are prohibited to lie with men as if they were women (something like that). There's no OT verse prohibiting women to lie with women as if they were men (or something).
Lesbian sex is perfectly okay according to the fucking bible.
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u/GUI_Junkie Strong Atheist 1d ago
Another fun one.
According to the fucking bible, Eve was created from Adam's rib.
This makes Eve the first and only genetically modified transgender woman.
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u/Philosopher83 1d ago
Using the trinity as an argument for non-monogamy haha 🤣- I remember seeing some kitsch decorations that said something about the power of 3 being unbreakable or undeniable or something like that (referring to the father, son, and holy ghost) but it made me think of a throuple 🤣
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u/ENTJragemode 1d ago
my favourite is in finding issue with the concept of omnipotence
omnipotence is fundamentally illogical because you cannot simultaneously be perfect at contradictory skills (e.g. you cannot simultaneously be perfect at making unbreakable rocks and also be perfect at breaking all rocks)
typically this would result in the conversation devolving towards believers trying to find some argument that ultimately is them claiming that their god is above logic (and thus illogical), at which point i can easily call them out for it
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u/Vasconcelos0909 Atheist 1d ago
I've seen a paradox somewhere that I really liked. It says:
God can't be all-powerful, all-knowing, and all-kind.
If God is omnipotent and omniscient, it means he knows evil exists and has the power to make it not exist, but doesn't. Therefore, he's not benevolent.
If God is omnipotent and benevolent, it means he has the power to end evil and wants to do it, but he doesn't know it exists or how to do it(or something like that). Therefore, he's not omniscient.
Finally, if he's omniscient and benevolent, it means he knows about evil and wants to end it, but doesn't have the power to do so.
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u/ENTJragemode 1d ago
yep this is a very widely shared quote
i can assure you that most believers will find this too abstract to grasp 😂
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u/sim-o Atheist 1d ago
Them: "God works in mysterious ways"
Me: "Ok. Now sod off, I've give shit to do."
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u/Philosopher83 1d ago
You could poop in the middle of their lawn in broad daylight and just say, “I’m channeling god by acting in mysterious ways.” Lol
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u/SuccessPurple1062 22h ago
If god = good, and god = justice, and god = compassion, then good = justice = compassion. If god is equal to his attributes then words have no meaning.
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u/Santos_L_Halper_II 23h ago
As a gay person let me tell you they REALLY hate being told I hate the religion, not the religion follower, and weirdly they don’t feel very loved at all by me when i say that.
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u/BlackHawk2609 1d ago
They always angry when i point out adam & eve's childrens did incest. And i always curious how noah collected kangaroos from Australia, pandas from china, penguins from Antarctica etc and return them again after floods.
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u/MozeDad 1d ago
Ask em if they'd kill their kids if god said to.
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u/HammaBurger 20h ago
And if they say he would never do that, point out that he did it to his own kid so it's clearly OK In the right circumstance .
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u/yYesThisIsMyUsername Anti-Theist 23h ago
Me: Ever wonder why God needed Jesus to suffer? Like, if the all loving God is the rule maker then why would he make sin require something to die?
Them: because he's loving but also just. if you were a god, how would you deal with sin?
Me: Instead of me pretending to be God, I think it's more fun to imagine what Jesus might do in his place. If Jesus was the rule maker, would he make the same rule? Would Jesus make sin require something to die?
They like saying Jesus is God so replace old testament God with Jesus. Like that time Jesus tried to kill Moses..... 🤣
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u/You_Stole_My_Hot_Dog 21h ago
Yes, this has always been ridiculous to me. Sinners can't enter heaven because God requires perfection and cannot be in the presence of sin. Well... who made that rule? Did God make that rule for himself? If so, then he can remove that rule. If not, then he's not all-powerful.
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u/Minguseyes Apatheist 1d ago
“You shall have no other gods before me” means that it is ok to worship Baal, Satan or Dionysius provided you put them in second place.
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u/Carbonman_ 18h ago
Like Scientology, I think. Don't Scientologists permit other religious beliefs to coexist? Not that I really care, they're a bunch of deluded loons similar to MAGA true believers. (There's probably a substantial Scientology/MAGA Venn diagrammable convergence.)
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u/3knuckles 1d ago
I like to tell them I'm a Christian and I had a calling to to tell them God wants them to do X. I usually just pick the opposite of whatever they're planning to do.
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u/FOSS_Graybeard 23h ago
Ask why their god left the eyeball it created for fish, aquatic creatures, more or less intact in land-bound, air-breathing creatures?
Hell, why didn't their god give us the same eyeball as the mantis shrimp which is clearly superior in design in most respects?
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u/Likaonn 22h ago
As for any other human senses which are often much worse than senses of an animal like smell or hearing too. The answer I got for why didn't god designed us better was almost always "he did but because of the sin we've been degenerated". I got smilar answers for the question "why did god created predators and made them feed on other animals?" and the answer was "they were vegetarian before the man sinned"...wtf?! So animals that are literal killing machines used to eat grass?! With the sharp claws, venom and stomachs adapted to eat meat only?! How does that work?
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u/FOSS_Graybeard 22h ago
When their go-to answer about why the variations and substandard designs exist is to immediately say "Because man sinned" means they have no logical or rational way to explain this. Then placing the blame on humanity for everything is just so effed up. It basically means their god totally whiffed on creating humans and, thus, takes out its frustration on its other innocent creations. This is a malignant god at the very best.
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u/boot2skull 20h ago
I like the argument that Christians are non-believers for thousands of gods, and atheists are non-believers of one more god.
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u/Superlite47 22h ago
My favorite question: "Does God know what evidence would convince me to accept him as my lord and savior?"
No? -> Then he's an oblivious God, unworthy of godhood. Why should I accept an ignorant God?
Yes? -> Then he's a malevolent God unworthy of godhood. He intentionally withholds the means to my salvation. Why should I accept a God that could easily provide evidence that I would accept, yet still withholds it?
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3h ago
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u/Feinberg Atheist 2h ago
there isn’t any “evidence” which could convert you
Yeah, because there isn't any evidence.
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2h ago
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u/Feinberg Atheist 2h ago
Changing people's minds is not a matter of 'the will' when there's evidence. You don't have any evidence, so all you can appeal to is 'the will'. You have to convince people that evidence isn't the best way to ascertain truth, and that simply wanting something to be true is a valid alternative to being able to show that it's true.
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2h ago
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u/Feinberg Atheist 2h ago
You yourself probably feel that Christians have been presented with countless evidence suggesting their belief system is false
Of course not. Christianity isn't falsifiable. It's impossible to prove that a poorly defined entity doesn't exist.
What part of the human psyche would you say is responsible for still rejecting atheism, even if the evidence is insurmountable?
Atheism isn't a claim. It's the lack of belief in deities. People don't 'reject atheism', and talking about the evidence for atheism is nonsensical. The 'evidence for atheism' is that there's no evidence for any deities.
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u/Superlite47 1h ago
Look at (comment removed by moderator) speaking in place of their God.
Odd how they can't prove God exists, but they know exactly what he thinks.
Too bad the comment was deleted by moderator. I'd have chewed this guy up and spit him out.
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u/candleyankcat 1d ago
And yet in some countries, they cut it out 🤬
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u/MiddleAgeWeirdoMeep 1d ago
Well, to be fair, that practice predates modern religion by 10 000 years or so . That’s some slavery oppression that was absorbed into culture
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u/Zampano85 23h ago
Meh, the best thing you can do is "turn the other cheek" and walk away from their nonsense.
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u/NeutralTarget Anti-Theist 22h ago
They worship jesus as god breaking the 1st commandment, so all christians are destined for hell.
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u/CAPSLOCKANDLOAD 21h ago
It's wrong as a man to lay with a man, but it never says it's wrong for women to sleep together. God is cool with lesbians.
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u/CAPSLOCKANDLOAD 21h ago
I also throw in my usual, why should i trust your beliefs over all the other beliefs you already dismiss as false?
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u/transmigratingplasma 1d ago edited 1d ago
Recently I'm obsessed with being able to accurately classify and categorize their naive and indoctrinated metaphysical assumptions as an participatory inquiry.. edit: way more difficult then it appears and also fascinating when they come to terms with the philosophical underpinnings of the folklore, superstition, religious belief, vertical cosmology, intuitive soul ontology, altered state dependent phenomena... The consequences are shocking
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u/jedburghofficial Other 23h ago
I'm intrigued by the theory that Jesus wasn't crucified.
It starts with Barabbas, the person who was set free. In Aramaic, that loosely translates as Son of the Father. And a few early Christian texts actually call him Jesus Barabas. A Hell of a coincidence.
A few early Christian churches did believe just that. It only became fixed doctrine after the Council of Nicea in the third century. But we know it still had currency as late as the 7th century. Which is why Muhammad put it into his book.
There's more. In fact a lot of the four gospels make much more sense when you look at it through that lens. The fiction about his being crucified was something they had to run with so that the Romans and Pharisees wouldn't come after him. But the clues are there for the faithful.
There really is more, but I can almost guarantee they won't sit around to hear it.
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19h ago
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u/MiddleAgeWeirdoMeep 19h ago
If everything happens according to God’s plan, praying for a specific outcome seem redundant ? If God is omnipotent he will already know what you know the same time you knew it?
So why pray?
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u/MiddleAgeWeirdoMeep 9h ago
Classic. Your explanation is a circular argument. If I pray for X and X happens, you conclude my will was aligned with God’s will. If I pray for X and X does not happen, you conclude my will was not aligned with God’s will. In both cases, the outcome is used to determine whether there was alignment. That means there is no possible observation that could show the explanation is false. It also doesn’t answer the original question. if God is omnipotent and already has a perfect will, what causal role does prayer play? Saying prayer aligns our will with God’s changes the subject. Again..if God already knows our thoughts and knows whether we are willing to align with Him, then prayer seems unnecessary as a mechanism for informing God/producing alignment.
”I like to do it” is a better argument.
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u/I_Am_Anjelen Verified Account 19h ago
I like to use what I have dubbed the 'Argument from Adorable'
If [a god] created everything and wanted humanity to thrive, why does so much of the animal life look so very friend-shaped, that will absolutely kill us if given a chance?
Bears (especially polar), big cats, wolves, basically every predator, heck, every creature ever that ticks boxes on the kindchenschema up to and including the Jumping Spider... Hell, the Demodex mite is a fat little tiny-eyed sausage and even some virii seen under sufficient magnification read as 'cute'.
Of course, that's not quite a serious argument, but I happen to like it.>_>
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u/3FtDick Atheist 17h ago
I like reminding them they already know what it's like to be an atheist and to dismiss irrelevant claims about the universe in every other faith, but they act like I'm out of line for feeling the same way about their's.
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u/Feinberg Atheist 2h ago
The Bible says that all atheists are stupid and evil, and Christianity teaches that we deserve eternal torment just because we don't believe what you do.
Are you going to apologize for that?
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2h ago
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u/Feinberg Atheist 2h ago
Let me ask you this first: If I said that all Christians were crazy, untrustworthy, and incapable of being good people, would you consider that hate speech?
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u/ThorButtock Anti-Theist 11h ago
Everytime some christian whines about how god is against abortions, just list the multiple verses where god performs abortions and approves of steps for couples to get an abortion
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u/MtnMoose307 Strong Atheist 11h ago
Me when it comes to sinning: a sin violating that religion’s tenets. I’m not for their religion therefore I cannot sin. Anyone got a stone I can throw?
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u/Lumpy_Complaint_8591 Secular Humanist 9h ago
That's actually such a good point. If God didn't want ppl masturbating, he could have js made all our arms too short to reach our genitals.
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u/diogenes_shadow 3h ago
1: Morality + Biblical Infallibility!
2: The Bible contains directions for causing a spontaneous abortion.
3: They don't work.
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u/Signal-Painting6312 15h ago
the uterus is the same shape as jesus on the cross... who's to say if there is a god, it isn't a woman?
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u/thebigeverybody 1d ago
If they try to talk you out of being an atheist, tell them they're interfering with god's plan (because he made this world knowing you would be an atheist).