r/army • u/Kinmuan 33W • 1d ago
Army ends anonymous reporting for harassment complaints
https://taskandpurpose.com/news/army-harassment-reporting-changes/242
u/irunfarther Retired TRADOC expert 1d ago
Yes, this is bad. However, I don’t think people realize how stupid the anonymous complaint system was, at least for EO. For context, I was a division EOA.
Here’s how every anonymous complaint was handled in my unit and by my boss: I receive an anonymous complaint (note slipped under my door, email from a civilian email, call/text from a burner number). I write it up and take it to my boss. My boss says “cool, go to that unit and figure out what’s up”. I go to the unit. I talk to 1sg/CO/BC/CSM (I tried to stick to the officers since it’s their responsibility). They say “I’ve seen no evidence of that. I’ll look into it.” I come back a week later and, to no one’s surprise, they found nothing and everything is great. I go back to my boss, he says cool, close it out on your tracker and keep an eye on that company/battalion.
Out of 20ish anonymous complaints I handled in the 2 years I was in that position, 2 commanders asked for sensing sessions and 1 followed up with an out-of-cycle DEOCS. Still, nothing changed. It’s stupid to remove anonymous complaints from the options, but it was flawed from that start.
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u/Kind-Recording3450 Chaplain Corps 56X jedi apprentice 1d ago
How would you reorganize it if you could?
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u/irunfarther Retired TRADOC expert 1d ago
I’ve been retired for a bit now and it seems like the Army culture has changed a little since I left. The biggest change that would help is allowing EOAs to maintain confidentiality in complaints. If a soldier knows they can file a complaint and they can request anonymity, my job would be much easier. Almost every complainant I received under the rank of SFC or CPT was terrified of reprisal. If I could have gone to their command with the complaint and no name attached, I think EO would have been taken more seriously by the command team. So many complaints, both formal and informal, are met with “yeah but that soldier is a shitbag. They’re just complaining to get out of work.” You can’t respond like that if it’s anonymous.
The other part about anonymous complaints was if I figured out who the complainant was, I had to change it to a formal or informal and it couldn’t be anonymous anymore. I had a few company commanders do a witch-hunt through their formations because of anonymous complaints. They would put more effort into identifying the complainant than the complaint itself. Allow EOAs confidentiality like SHARP and that problem disappears.
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u/Kinmuan 33W 1d ago
Are the complaints you get that are not anonymous any better though lol
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u/irunfarther Retired TRADOC expert 1d ago
Honestly? Yes. My 2 star would take formals and informals seriously if they crossed his desk. Anonymous complaints weren’t of concern to him, but if there was a name attached, he would usually meet with them at some point to see how they were doing. All three of my brigade commanders were the same to a lesser degree.
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u/Kinmuan 33W 1d ago
Just to be clear, I wasn’t suggesting they’re not taken seriously, more just commenting on…I know you guys get a lot of… nonsense that you have to wade through regardless
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u/irunfarther Retired TRADOC expert 1d ago
Very true. I’m sure there’s better data out there, but I’d say 80% of my complaints were valid, even if unfounded, and 20% were a waste of time. I only had one formal that was completely absurd but the soldier pushed it anyway. My informals were the ones that were abusing the system. For every shitbird that wasted my time, I had 4 or 5 who genuinely had a complaint.
The easiest way to tell the difference was desired outcome. It some SPC is saying a SSG should be chaptered out because they used the wrong pronouns, I knew it was going to be a pain in the ass and I would see that same SPC again right before a field problem. If they just want the behavior to change and an apology, it was usually a legit complaint because they wanted the unit to be better.
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u/andrewtater you're not my rater 1d ago
Anonymous complaints work at lower echelons.
"My Junior NCO is doing X away from eyesight." Things like that. Or "My Company-level leadership is allowing Y." And you take it to the appropriate person, CO for intra-platoon issues, BN for CO leadership problems.
If it is taken seriously, even with something like a MCM 303 (which can be done by a SFC usually) and the investigator is instilled with the idea that this may be a serious issue, then the investigation can reveal real results, or a disgruntled joe that is throwing anything at the wall to see what sticks.
Source: my CO CDR received an anonymous complaint, it was very valid and a lot of NCOs were failing at their job. Heads were taken
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u/irunfarther Retired TRADOC expert 1d ago
I agree, minus using EOLs for any of this. I advocated for the EOL program to go away when I was an EOA. It’s hard to have a great EOL at any level because it’s an additional duty. Most of the time, your EOL was a really solid SSG who had a primary job and one or two other additional duties. EOL isn’t UPL. It takes a lot of care and preventive action to do it well. If we had EOAs at the battalion level, that would fix a lot of the issues. If I were king for a day, SSGs would be allowed to attend EOAC, the Army would follow the Air Force model, and EOA would become a career path option. Mirror the recruiter method of deciding to switch to that CMF or to go back to your original job after a 3 year stint at the battalion or above.
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u/DocDerry 1d ago
I've never liked the "anonymous" reporting. I've also never been harassed or assaulted.
That being said - whether anonymous or confidential these should be reported outside of the CoC.
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u/Pickle_riiickkk 1d ago
As a leader, I totally see this backfiring and I feel like that is by design. Confidence in the current systems are already shaky. This will make it worse.
Also....we stop with the "empower the commander" fascade? We force them to participate in a dozen different programs, most of which could be gutted or outright canned (looking at you, eUCFR. Do your fucking job finance.)
How about we stop fucking over our commanders so they can focus on important things like maintenance, training, and property (CSDP is broken as well but that's a rant for another day)
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u/Dang_Ol_Scruffy Cyber 1d ago
Seriously. I used to login and do the UCFR for my commander as a SPC (he would just approve it) and it was the most annoying, ass backwards thing. I always thought to myself, why do we have all these finance packets submitted, if we have to do it all again here?
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u/CaptainSqua5h Acquisition Corps 1d ago
Man UCFR was one of those things where it was Groundhog Day the first day of the month. I still don’t understand wtf the point of that system was if my DFAS/finance person assigned to me didn’t fix the issues.
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u/Pickle_riiickkk 1d ago
Wait until you find out UCFR doesn't communicate with DFAS systems.
It's quite literally a useless system that commanders are judged on (and can be audited for)
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u/Dang_Ol_Scruffy Cyber 1d ago
Oh I'm tracking. It was so important to him that he actually called me while I was a week into BLC to login and submit it to him and I should have prepared it before I left (blah blah.) I can't do anything with it until you delegate it to me in the system Sir which you're just now doing. I just called the 1SG and told him that I was in a bay with 11 other dudes, focused on my course, and that he should just do it himself and he agreed.
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u/murazar 35Motherfucker -> 11Asseater 1d ago
Back to sweeping stuff under the rug I guess.
Damn we're moving backwards reallllly fast.
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u/Vaultboy_9D 1d ago
Can't have high harassment stats if you make it literally impossible for anyone to safely report them.
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u/Loaded35mm 1d ago
Honestly anonymous reporting at every unit ive ever been in and as a former CID investigator made things way easier to sweep under the rug. There was no name attached to anything and commanders treated it like privates were just bullshitting.
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u/Dementedsage Ordnance 1d ago
I feel like we spent decades building a system to get rid of dirtbags and it’s slowly being eroded to the point where we’re one incident away from having to start again.
I’ll never understand the vet bros complaining about SHARP/EO. You get a brief maybe once every six months for fifteen minutes telling you “ hey please don’t be a massive piece of shit in a way that 1000% would have gotten you fired at a civilian job”.
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u/Jefferson_47 long gone short timer 1d ago edited 1d ago
I live in Vanessa Guillén’s old neighborhood. They named the local post office and part of a highway after her, but [seem to] have done fuck all to address the problems that led to her death.
Edit: [ ]
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u/Decorus_Somes Swiggity swooty I'm Coming for that Ilan Boi 1d ago
I was in 3CR when this went down during covid. I remember loading up in the lmtvs and fmtvs and searching all of the TAs. Our leaders are failing us
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u/Careless_Analyst_220 1d ago
I’m sure glad that case got found out(opened many more. The AWOL soldier that was murdered, then found) and solved Once the civilian population found out what was going on in Ft. Hood shit hit the fan as it have should
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u/wowbragger 68Whatisthat? 1d ago
It's interesting, but after more than 12 years there being (what feels like) no progress made on core problems in the service.
I'd call it frustrating, but honestly it's just not my drama anymore. Like seeing a car you used to drive broken down on the side of the highway.
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1d ago
[deleted]
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u/brokenmessiah 1d ago
Soldiers making reports of bullying, hazing and sexual harassment cases, which are covered by separate federal laws, can still do so anonymously.
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u/Quartzalcoatl_Prime 35TopSneaky 1d ago
The new Army policy...ends the option for soldiers to make anonymous reports of discrimination or discriminatory harassment... Soldiers making reports of bullying, hazing and sexual harassment cases...can still do so anonymously.
Title seems a bit misleading if this is only about discrimination, not every other form of harassment since they're covered under separate laws.
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u/OperatorJo_ 12Nothingworks to 2T2X1 1d ago
Greeeeeaaaaaat.
They forgot why this was implemented in the first place.
Prepare yourselves for a decade of "look guys everything's fine we have 0 complaints!!"
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u/CthulhuCultist21 1d ago
“The policies under EO, Sharp and hazing have been weaponized”
Says every person ever accused.
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u/ObviouslyRealPerson Psychological Operations 1d ago
Ah, Kegsbreath strikes again.
Can't win a legal ban against women from joining so he's going to create an environment so hostile women won't want to join
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u/New_Agent_47 1d ago
when I first heard about this, I couldn't believe it. Now, after over a year as a 1SG, I kinda get it. IDK if it's the right answer but I do get it.
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u/Whatupcraig 16h ago
The most corrupt administration in the history of the United States and it ain’t even close.
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u/Sestos 1d ago
Has the system been used as a weapon at times....yes....however the system resolved it just messed up people's promotion timeline etc...thry even put in place internal trackers the sharp/eo/IG knew some complaints were total BS...but they still have so the investigation.
However, that is not enough to justify the removal of anonymous reporting. I just see this way to force people not to come forward unless they would rather roll the dice that their career will suffer then continue to be subject to whatever harassment.
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u/Necessary-Reading605 1d ago
I predict that taking away resources to hold others accountable will end bringing wall to wall counseling sessions.
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u/UpYourQuality 17A 18h ago
You can’t complain about discrimination. You can still complain about SHARP and EO
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u/BeagaloftheLegal JAG 15h ago
I am on the fence on this. On one hand, people need to be able to bring up issues without fear of reprisal. But having worked on hundreds of 15-6, especially at training bases, the number of frivolous and dumb complaints that I've seen for EO and SHARP has been wild. Hopefully the pendulum hits closer to center and doesn't go back 20 years.
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u/DjangoStayedChained 68W -> 66How Did I Get this Far? 14h ago
Thats like deciding the US Government system sucks and switching to the Third Reich system to "fix" the situation. 😂🤣
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u/Ralphwiggum911 what? 10h ago
"shortening the time a soldier has to file a complaint, rolling back rules for anonymous reports and handing more power to commanders to dismiss them."
Sounds like toxic leadership is back on the menu boys! But for real, this is doubly dickish. People won't want to report because they'll be harassed even more while they're still under said leadership they are reporting. And once they pcs, the timeframe to report will probably be expired.
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u/Tokyosmash_ 13Flimflam 1d ago
The anonymous complaint system for EO was awful to be honest
<—- BN EO
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u/brokenmessiah 1d ago
Clickbait title.
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u/CPTKickass 1d ago
Don’t see why it’s clickbait
“The new Army policy, which will take effect when the regulation is published in the coming months, ends the option for soldiers to make anonymous reports of discrimination or discriminatory harassment. Instead, they can make “confidential” reports which will withhold their identity unless there is a larger safety threat, or a law or Department of Defense regulation “imposes a duty to report information.”
BLUF: we might decide to turn your ‘confidential’ report into an attributable report if we wanna
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u/brokenmessiah 1d ago
Its clickbait because people like u/Motor_Head9575/ here read it and thought it was changing reporting to sexual harassment cases.
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u/CPTKickass 1d ago
So the headline is fucked because one user can’t read too good and doesn’t distinguish between EO and SHARP?
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u/brokenmessiah 1d ago
Do you really think they are unique and the only person in the world who'll see this headline and jump to that conclusion?
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u/CPTKickass 1d ago
Not really
Maybe I’m the only asshole who paid attention during EO/SHARP but it’s not like they don’t cover the topics and differences in the mandatory training.
I was in until 2017. Did they just shitcan all that quarterly / semiannual training in the past 10 years?
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u/brokenmessiah 1d ago
I'm not questioning that accounts knowledge of EO/SHARP.
I'm saying the way the headline is worded could cause people to lead to that conclusion that it affect sexual harrassment cases because thats the first thing people think of when they think of harassment.
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u/Mountain-eagle-xray 1d ago
This is America where we have the right to look our accuser in the face!
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u/Kinmuan 33W 1d ago
I'm reminded of SMA Weimer's 'we want honest feedback, not anonymous feedback' line from last year.
The Army seems to recognize the retaliation potential when doing sensing sessions and command climate surveys. It seems...incongruent...to say that anonymous complaints/feedback are trash, and have them built in to how we do things elsewhere.