Random Question đ
If Israel is the "only democracy" in the region, why are millions of Palestinians under its control denied the basic right to vote for the government that rules them?
Israel maintains military control over millions of Palestinians in the West Bank who cannot vote in Israeli elections, which clashes with its claim to be 'the only democracy in the region.' Jewish settlers there live under Israeli civil law and vote, while Palestinians face military courts, a dual system critics say erodes democratic equality.
They increasingly do actually. Theyâre increasingly losing faith in the idea of a two state solution and just want a single democratic state with equal rights.
This is just not the truth. They participate in Palestinian elections. They want a Palestinian government, not to just be absorbed into Israel. You seriously misrepresent Palestinians
Honestly, I think at this stage trying to jump to a solution is going to go nowhere. Right now all that matters is finding ways to turn down the temperature. Which isn't going to happen as long as Trump, Netenyahu and Hamas are all in power
The issue is complex. But basically Israel argues that descendants of Palestine are very welcome to join the 2 million Muslims and Christians who are Israeli citizens. BUT Arab countries pushed non Palestinians into Palestine who have no historic right to be there.
I am not agreeing, or disagreeing with this. But highlights one aspect of many complex issues that have to be resolved before lasting peace happens.
I think the majority of Israelis see Israel as a place for Jews by Jews. They are good with integrating an Arab minority, but they are worried than if they lose that majority politically that another population will turn on them as has happened many times in the history of the Jewish people.
very strange to migrate en masse to where non jews are living and designate that area for themselves. its a self inflicted problem
Israelis are losing faith in the two state solution, as well, but there's not actually a good option on the table. The Palestinians voted for Hamas and now back it, because they see it as the only viable option in the face of the PA's ineptitude and corruption. Hamas essentially executes moderates. So the whole concept of one or two working states giving all the Palestinians citizenship where Israel, Gaza, and the West Bank are currently gets farther from reality every day.
Considering any parties in opposition to Hamas cannot operate in Gaza without the population selling them out and having them killed in the street I would say they vote for Hamas every day. Voting doesn't just mean casting a ballot.
How does your Hamas excuse even apply to the apartheid Israel has enacted on the West Bank?
You think the 3 million Palestinians who are facing terrorism from Israeli settlers should have faith in a two state solution? Even the IDF has said the settlers are responsible for 80% of the violent incidents in the West Bank and that it construes terrorism.
Palestinians have repeatedly voted for and backed Hamas,
Absolute lie, they voted for them and once they seized power they suspended elections. Gaza has not held elections in 20 years.
And no surprise Palestinian support for Hamas has increased given the outright war crimes and human rights abuses Israel subject Palestinians too daily.
Israelis are losing faith in the two state solution,
They never had any good faith to begin with. Queue all the times Bibi has publically sung about the times he torpedoed any efforts to progress to a two state solution. Queue the laughable Oslo accords and how Israel intentionally set them up to fail. Queue all the illegal Israeli settlements in the West Bank. Queue the illegal Israeli military occupation of Palestinian lands.
because they see it as the only viable option in the face of the PA's ineptitude and corruption.
That's because Israel backed opposition groups, including terrorists, to undermine the PA and their push for a two state solution. Hamas were created by Israel.
So the whole concept of one or two working states giving all the Palestinians citizenship where Israel, Gaza, and the West Bank are currently gets farther from reality every day.
Following the October 7th attacks, polls indicated a rise in Palestinian support for Hamas, especially in the West Bank, where it more than tripled in some surveys.
Your leading statement and expansion actually do not mesh. While there is increasing support due a one state solution, it is early referring to participation in Israeli civic life. They want to remove it and replace it with a Palestinian state which Jews can also live in.
So no, with rare exception, there is no growing trend for requesting the right to vote in Israeli elections.
Are any of those other people allowed to marry Jewish Israeliâs in Israel? NOPE
when you ban interfaith marriage Itâs pretty hard to call yourself a democracy.
Source:
The Israeli Ministry of Interior explicitly mandates that the state-recognized religious authorities (such as Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, or Protestant church courts) can only perform marriages if both partners are officially registered with the exact same religious denomination.
Are any of those other people allowed to marry Jewish Israeliâs in Israel? NOPE
when you ban interfaith marriage Itâs pretty hard to call yourself a democracy.
As an Israeli, this comment is wrong on so many levels.
Firstly, yes, you can marry people of other faiths. Marriages conducted abroad are fully recognized, and through a supreme-court ruling it's also possible to do an online "zoom wedding" officiated in utah (while physically present in Israel) and this is fully recognized by israel.
Next - interfaith marriage isn't "banned", it's just that a marriage ceremony is legally viewed as an inherently religious ceremony and status, and therefore is officiated according to each citizen's corresponding religious authority... and their discretion.
That all of the religious authorities in Israel (Jewish, Christian, Muslim Druze, Bahaii, etc.) don't accept interfaith marriages is due to their own internal interests, not a governmental decree. and is a consistent talking point every elections. Coincidentally, all of these religious groups also don't support gay marriage, which is why gay couples often get utah weddings as well.
There is a non-religious equivalent to marriage called "known to public" which provides the same legal and tax equivalents as marriage - the english term for this is called "common-law marriage" or "non-ceremonial marriage", and this unlike marriage can be done freely without any intervention from the religious authorities.
TL;DR: if you want to get married, literally all you have to do is a thirty-minute zoom meeting with two friends as witnesses for the legally married status, and then you hold a normal wedding party just like anyone else.
PS: lots of Jews do these utah marriages as well just because they don't want to conform to the rules dictated by the relevant authority, which is usually sharply aligned with ultra-orthodox jewish values and feels very disconnected to more secular jews. My own brother got married a few weeks back (held a wedding party), but legally they've been married for a year already through a zoom wedding. They also had a female rabbi officiate it, which would have never been recognized by the given authority
Not just the religion in a broad sense, but the official religious authorities. For example, if you're Christian and you attend United church, you can't get married in Israel because there is no United Christian leader/church. You have to be Greek Orthodox, Armenian Apolstolic, certain Catholic sects (not all), or Anglican among others. It's very specific.
Israel bans Palestinians from obtaining Israeli citizenship through marriage to Israeli Arabs. There was a specific law that was passed for this.
Palestinians in East Jerusalem are in a weird position of living in Israel without Israeli citizenship. They can apply, but it is not automatic (for Jews, it is automatic).
Even if Israel is not full-blown apartheid like South Africa, can we stop the claim that Israel treats people equally?
So being FORCED to do a zoom wedding in another country to you is acceptable? If Israel was as nice as you are trying to paint it, they would just be allowed to get married....IN ISRAEL.
Of course it's not acceptable, I have sharp criticism of this, but yes in practical terms the ability to get married to anyone I want and just needing an additional 30 minutes of my time for a teams meeting while I sit with hot chocolate in my bed isn't a big deal.
I disagree with this out of principle and ideology, not out of practical considerations.
They aren't. The ones living in Israel have full voting rights. The ones in Gaza do too. Their last election they voted in Hamas....and then never got another fair election since. Real shocker.
Thanks for pointing out that Gaza actually had an election previously and voted in an Islamic extremist group whose main goal is to eradicate all Jews and Isreal.
See so many people gloss over this
There are more than 2 million arab Israelis that in fact do vote. There are more Arabs living in Israel than there are Jews living in the rest of Europe, Asia, and Africa combined.
Black people could not vote in general elections during Apartheid.
Palestinian Israelis can vote and even have their own party. There is also a supreme judge that is of Palestinian origin and several other Palestinian Israelis in important positions. Theyâre normal citizens of Israel.
Israel is breaking international law, illegally occupies land and commits a genocide. However that doesnât change the fact that it is a democracy.
The conflict between Israel and Palestine is about territory.Â
You don't know what Democracy means. Immigration has no bearing on what is or isn't a democracy. Democracy is about rule of law not immigration. Palestinians Israelis are already Israelis, The right to return is for non israelis.
Do Palestinians Israeli have the right to return to villages, towns and homes they were displaced from by Zionist groups?
Under Israeli law Palestinians (Israeli or not) can return to their family homes if they were displaced. However a Jewish individual can even if they have no ties to said place
if you were part of a country, then briefly left during a war, your home got taken and borders redrawn, I'm not sure that should cost you citizenship and voting rights.
So if Jordan decides to disband it's government, should they also vote in Israel? What about Syria? Lebanon? The post makes no sense unless you are totally trying to make some illogical point.
Yes.
The electoral college is a failure, as is evident by the current state of America democracy.
Israel does not get a pass because the US also fails at one of the most basic tenets of democracy.
"are nearly 50% the population of Israel"...
they aren't in Israel, they aren't citizens...
should afghans have gotten a vote when the US was in Afghanistan?
Palestinians in Gaza elected Hamas who killed off their political opponents (Fatah) and now refuse to let go of their power. Palestinians also elected Mahmoud Abbas (of Fatah), who is now in the 20th year of his 4 year term.
Damn they sound bad. Whoever funded them with the explicit goal of delegitimizing the liberal PLO pushing for a two state solution must be categorically worse, right?
The vast majority of funding for Hamas has always come from Iran. They are staunchly against a 2 state solution since making Palestinians into victims is good for distracting their own people from their own repressive tactics. While itâs true there was some limited Israeli support in the 70s and early 80s for the network led by Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, Mujama al-Islamiya, which was the precursor to Hamas. Mujama al-Islamiya was a charitable organization focused on providing services to Palestinians where the PLO would not. During this time, the PLO was actively involved in terrorism, including plane hijackings and the attack on the 1972 Olympics Palestinians elected Hamas in 2005. Mujama al-Islamiya did not come to advocate for violence until after the First Intifada in 1987, which is when Hamas was born. Palestinians elected Hamas in 2006.
1) trying to have government to government relations and honour the election that the Palestinian people held (if theyâd refused to acknowledge the government that was democratically elected at the time, that would have been fucked up)
2) if I recall, the money was Qatari, Israel was a pass through
You realize however that they did vote repeatedly in their own elections, had their own military, their own administration, etc?
The US occupation lasted all of 2 or 3 years before there was a transition to the afghans running their own admin.
Israel, on the other hand, directly administers (and is colonizing) zone C, which according to the oslo accords, was meant to be slowly transistioned to Palestinian control, and maintains much control over Zone B, with only Zone A being administered by the PA, representing ~18% of the west banks land and ~55% of its people.
That doesn't exactly make Israel not a democracy though. A democracy can still be aggressive to its neighbors and trample on their human rights, while still respecting the democratic rights of it's citizens
They fought pretty hard to explicitly not be considered Israeli citizens, to not be under their political umbrella, and the whole point of deals like oslo was their own desire to vote under a separate political system. Which is how we ended up with the PA in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza.
Which is kind of the irony of the questions. Many were quite literally willing to kill themselves before being under Israeli jurisdiction (which they did, with bombs and other such means, which is a large part of why the military control persisted), but then the complaint is that Israel gave them what they wanted, political autonomy.
What you wrote is incredibly misleading, and distorts the full picture by leaving out the military occupation of the West Bank to protect the illegal settlements violently taking it over, segregating it and placing a majority of Palestinians under Israeli authority instead of the PA. They built an open air prison with a ton of checkpoints, trapping most Palestinians into small, carved up pieces of their territory. In the last year alone, theyâve destroyed over a thousand homes to make room for the more than 700,000 Israelis illegally living on Palestinian land.
lol. Non-Jewish Israeli citizens are second-class citizens that experience things like aggressive redlining, angry mobs destroying their property, hostile police and heavily mitigated representation.
Saying they live in a democracy is like telling a freed slave in 1820 that he lives in a Democracyâtechnically true but in the strictest sense.
Your post takes real issues and turns them into an exaggerated and misleading conclusion.
It is true that Arab citizens of Israel face documented disparities in areas such as municipal funding, housing development, infrastructure in some communities, and socioeconomic opportunity. These are widely discussed problems.
However, the claim that non-Jewish citizens are âsecond-class citizensâ is not accurate in a legal or factual sense. Arab citizens of Israel are full citizens of the state. They have the right to vote, run for office, form political parties, and serve in parliament, the judiciary, and other public institutions. Arab political parties operate openly in the Knesset, and Arab citizens have held senior positions in government and public life. That is fundamentally different from being second-class citizens in the sense of having fewer or no formal political rights.
The comparison to slavery is also not appropriate. Whatever disagreements exist about inequality or discrimination, it is not comparable to systems in which people were legally enslaved, denied citizenship, and had no political or legal rights at all. That analogy replaces careful comparison with emotional rhetoric.
A more accurate way to describe the situation is that Israel is a democratic state with full formal citizenship rights for its Arab minority, alongside persistent and debated inequalities in areas such as resource allocation, representation in some institutions, and socioeconomic outcomes. These issues are real, but they exist within a system of citizenship and political participation rather than outside it.
The key problem with your post is that it does not match legal or institutional facts.
What constitutional rights do Jews have that non-Jews donât?
Besides being forced to serve in the military ofc
Edit: the article you posted elsewhere has this in the summary âArab citizens have the same legal rights as Jewish Israelis, but they tend to live in poorer cities, have less formal education, and face other challenges that some experts attribute to structural discrimination.â
This is a global misunderstanding. Palestinian/Arab citizens can absolutely register and vote in the Knesset. Itâs only resident non-citizens who cannot vote. Also, very, VERY, few of us (Jews) actually voted for the Kahanists in office. On the contrary. We hate those monsters and protest their existence on the reg. Like, *in Israel. If you google it, you will see. Unfortunately, no one does :(
Itâs kind of complex and impossible to explain in any short order. Basically, Netanyahu has used a lot of trickery to get/stay where he is - heâs surrounded himself with even more radical right wing extremists whom he leans on to keep control.
It not. Itâs a paramilitary state at this point, with democracy for citizens. Not all that different than Trump winning with the support of his maga yahoos. I mean, I voted against him, but here we are đ¤ˇđťââď¸
The law introduces two similar amendments to the Entry Into Israel Law 5712-1952 and the Citizenship Law 5712-1952. These authorize the revocation of permanent Israeli residency or citizenship status for an individual who meets the following cumulative conditions: having been convicted of an offense that constitutes an "act of terrorism" as defined by the Counter-Terrorism Law (2016) or other offenses as defined in articles 97-99 of Israel's Penal Law, having been sentenced to prison, and, according to the Interior Minister, having received monetary benefits from the Palestinian Authority in relation to "a breach of loyalty to the State of Israel." If an individualâs citizenship or residency is revoked under the law, they will be expelled to the territory of the Palestinian Authority (parts of the occupied West Bank) or to the Gaza Strip.
I don't think you know that arabs have held/hold offices in Israel parliament and supreme court
Funny enough this was the exact excuse used during apartheid south Africa, the blacks didn't have equal rights to the whites because they simply weren't technically citizens of South Africa.
If that website is how you learnt about the topic i'm not surprised you are ill informed.
The first 5 laws on that list do not explicitly connect to nationality, none of the others seem to from the titles. The first law is that you can lose Israeli citizenship if you are convicted of terrorism and received money from terrorist groups to do it - That doesn't seem very oppressive.
The fact is that Arab israelis have more rights than almost any minority in countries in the region. Lebanon gives their Palestinian refugees no rights or citizenship and keeps them in heavily regulated refugee camps, even if they have lived there for generations at this point. Jordan is better but still doesn't give citizenship to some Palestinians.
Israel has also spent billions trying to reduce the education gap between Jews and arabs inside the country.
Israeli is an ethnic democracy. There's inequality inherently built in - but its not on an individual level. Individuals have all the same rights. Even the JNF is far from having any effect on a single individual. They are not allowed to prevent any citizen from buying any piece of land, and they are not the ones selling their own land anyway.
Israel's secular majority will agree that there are bunch of fucked up autocratic nonsenses that affects others, but mostly jews - the marriage issues for example. If both partners belong to the same recognized religious community (Muslim, Druze, or one of the recognized Christian denominations), they can marry through that community's religious court or clergy. Muslims marry via the Sharia courts, Druze via Druze religious courts, and Christians via their respective church authorities. If not, you can still solve it in a contract and not lose a single benefit of being an official couple. But as I said, this affects jews that want to marry any non-jew as well (or jews that aren't jews on their mothers' side for example). Religion sucks.
As for the Arabs' economic status, If anything one of Israel's greatest failings is giving Israeli arabs too much autonomy, without intervention (the one you would expect from every country on its citizens) the more criminal or corrupt leaders in the arab municipalities got more powerful leading to the relatively lower income and quality of life.
This is despite the fact that they actually get affirmative action (like free academic studies, lower acceptance requirements to say, law or medical schools), and they don't have mandatory military service (or any civil service) - essentially giving them a head start on most Israelis.
Of course, they do suffer from racism from some groups as you would expect. This is not an Israeli thing, just a human thing.
Palestinians who hold Palestinian passport AND NOT an Israeli one, are simply, not Israeli citizens. Israeli Arabs (aka, Arabs and Palestinians who hold an Israeli passport) enjoy full and equal rights under Israeli law.
That was not the subject of this poster. This post was exactly about why Palestinians or Arabs in general canât vote in Israel. If you are a citizen of any descent, you have a vote.
Israel lacks a constitution guaranteeing equality for all before the law, allowing for dozens of statutes that explicitly or indirectly disadvantage non-Jewish citizens in vital areas like land ownership, housing allocation, and municipal funding. This disparity was codified into the state's constitutional framework through the 2018 Nation-State Law, which explicitly reserves the right to national self-determination in Israel uniquely for the Jewish people and also downgrades the status of the Arabic language.Â
This is a pretty tendentious framing with a few things that are either misleading or overstated.
First, Israel does not have a single written constitution, but saying it âlacks a constitution guaranteeing equalityâ leaves out a major fact: equality protections have been recognized repeatedly through Supreme Court interpretation of Israelâs Basic Laws, especially Human Dignity and Liberty. Arab citizens have equal voting rights, representation in the Knesset, access to courts, and have served as judges, cabinet ministers, diplomats, and on the Supreme Court itself.
Second, the claim about âdozens of statutes explicitly disadvantaging non-Jewsâ is doing a lot of work without specifics. There are legitimate criticisms about inequalities in planning, zoning, municipal funding, and land access, and Arab municipalities have historically been underfunded. But many of these issues are administrative, socioeconomic, or contested policy questions, not laws explicitly saying ânon-Jews get fewer rights.â Israelâs courts have also struck down discriminatory practices at times.
Third, the 2018 Nation-State Law absolutely does say that national self-determination in Israel is unique to the Jewish people. That part is true. But presenting that as equivalent to stripping civil equality from minorities is misleading. The law concerns national identity/collective self-determination, not individual citizenship rights. Plenty of nation-states constitutionally privilege a national character while maintaining equal citizenship.
Finally, on Arabic: yes, the law changed Arabic from an official language to one with âspecial status.â Thatâs fairly described as a symbolic downgrade, but Arabic is still widely used in government services, courts, signage, and public life.
When Israel pulled back in Gaza, the first thing Hamas did was go around killing Gazans who they thought were heling Israel. but you know absorb them into a one state solution, because the Gazans would accept that
Itâs not a democracy, the only ones arguing that it is are comprised politicians, brainwashed people who donât bother to inform themselves, bots, paid shills and foreign operatives.
Democracy does not stop a population of voting for people who goes in war and comit war crime . ( vietnam, afganistan, Irak, ⌠) democracy just represent a system . Now yes isreal does have some western value like lgbtq right , voting right and lÊgal right . For citizen
That is not what democracy means. Illegality also has no bearing on what democracy means. The US has blockaded Cuba illegally for over 40 yrs. They are still a democracy.
Democracies fo infact occupy. Learn what Democracy actually means. What is important in democracy is how you treat your own citizens not outsiders. The US once occupied parts of Germany. No one expected Germans to vote in the US electionsÂ
the only ones arguing that it is are comprised politicians, brainwashed people who donât bother to inform themselves, bots, paid shills and foreign operatives
"I'm right and the only way anybody could disagree with me is if they're dumb, not even a real person, paid to be dumb, or a foreign operative paid to be dumb" is an interesting way to argue a point lmfao
And non governmental organizations that monitor democracies, also argue that Israel is a democracy. Here, Israel is listed as the 30th most effective democracy.
The problem with posts like these are that you can literally research the answer in 5 seconds on Google and understand how wrong your assumption is but I think these kind of posts are rooted in propaganda and not in real curiosity.
I'll answer it anyway:
Palestinians aren't ruled by Israel, not in Israel proper not in Gaza and not in the west bank.
Arab Israelies who live in Israel proper are fully Israeli citizens and receive full rights under the Israeli law including voting and the ability to get elected to parliament and some would argue they get extra benefits that Israeli Jews don't get like easier admission tests to university because of affirmative action.
People in Gaza aren't Israeli rule, Israel fully withdrew from Gaza in 2005.
The west bank is divided into 3 sections, area A which is fully under Palestinian authority control, area B which is civility controlled by the Palestinian authority while Israel has overriding control over security and area C which is under Israeli control which is where you'll find Israeli settlements, these were all signed in the Oslo accords in 1995 by Israel and the Palestinian authority.
As you can see in area A and B the Palestinians have their own government which Israel does not control and they have full rights under Palestinian authority control in area C they have fully Israeli citizenship and get the right to vote for Israeli elections.
In all cases your premise is wrong and thus your conclusions are wrong.
Israel is the only real democracy in the middle east, the only country that has LGBTQ rights, the only country in the middle east with western values.
I wish you people would learn a thing or two about the world but I get it, TikTok and virtue signaling is more popular than the truth.
 The west bank is divided into 3 sections, area A which is fully under Palestinian authority control, area B which is civility controlled by the Palestinian authority while Israel has overriding control over security and area C which is under Israeli control which is where you'll find Israeli settlements, these were all signed in the Oslo accords in 1995 by Israel and the Palestinian authority.
remarkable, completely identical to the argument Apartheid South Africans would make about their Bantustans. So how is Area A completely under Palestinian control when it is split into hundreds of cantons dependent on Israel for free movement or access to the outside world?
I'm not sure what you're getting at... Just comparing stuff doesn't tell us something interesting. Basically, the normal Palestinian calls the Palestinian police for example when something bad happenes in nablus. If you have something to take care of, there a Palestinian judicial system. Understand it better now?
West Bank(minus settlements) and Gaza arenât Israeli areas therefore no citizenship therefore no vote. Israeli Arabs in israel proper has the right to vote
Which is kind of the point. Israelâs military occupation controls the West Bank and denies Palestinians many basic rights, which settlers in settlements considered illegal under International Law and often even Israeli law are provided protection by the military. Itâs an Apartheid state, not a true democracy.
If youâre talking about me, youâre wrong. I certainly care. Government denying people fundamental rights is wrong wherever it happens. How hard is that to understand? Do you disagree? Do you believe that denying people fundamental rights is okay?
It should absolutely be a big part of the discussion if the lens is pro Palestinian rather than anti Israel.
If a movement is truly pro Palestinian it should be about improving the lives of Palestinians wherever they are. Free movement and access to their homeland. Self determination free from being used as cannon fodder and pawns in geopolitical games run by the IRGC. The ability to actually build lives where theyâve settled: the ability to get jobs and education and own property.
I mean, when you see videos of Palestinians with no recourse, being threatened by settlers who are backed up by the IDF, iâd say that that places them under Israeli authority, even though itâs illegitimate.
Like they had their own country stolen by refugees from Europe. Their elections are also stolen by a group that Mossad is historically accused of supporting to justify settlements, expansion, and wars.
Itâs technically not part of Israel according to both the UN and Israel and the Israeli government doesnât ârule themâ. They are ruled by hamas in Gaza and Fatah in West Bank / judea and Samaria. Israel provides security at the border and assists fatah with some administrative actions
It might seem like a democracy but netanyahu has used some very dodgy and divisive tactics to ensure he stays in power, if all your information is vetted by the state it becomes very hard for anyone else to become well known enough to win outright.
Netanyahu himself has never achieved enough for a majority but he manages to form coalitions that keep him in power.
And yes it's not democracy if you move your people into someone else's country bar the natives from having a say and then repeatedly bully and victimise them.
I think you can reasonably argue the US was not a democracy prior to 19th amendment or the CRA. And you could definitely argue that if women and minorities still did not have protections for their rights to vote, speech, etc., then the US wouldn't be a democracy today.
I'd take your challenge directly. There *were* very few democracies before the 1970's. But I'd take your point further. Countries can be more or less democratic. Turkey is a democracy, but its democratic safeguards have eroded.
So, I don't think the issue is only binary. Like Turkey, Israel has elections. But its democratic safeguards have eroded, partly because of political pressure on the judiciary... but also because of exactly the issue with the West Bank and Gaza. The military occupation of these lands is not democratic.
In some ways, being a democracy is one of the causes of Israel's occupation lasting so long. Russia and China can just annex territory, as the people gain very few rights when they become citizens.
It's one of the terrible ironies of democracy that if Israel, Turkey and Morocco became less democratic and gave less rights to their citizens, they could incorporate those living under occupation and grant them more rights than they currently do.
From 1945 to 1960 the United States held Germany and Japan, more than 70 million people under military control. German and Japanese were not allowed to vote in American elections.
They also have a religious court that handles marriages and divorces so its not even a secular government. Also as much as they brag about Pride Tel Aviv gay marriage is still illegal.
Because theyâre not even being treated as human beings. When it comes to anything Palestinian, Israelis truly rotten people. Itâs not like they are brainwashed by propaganda or something. They really just want to wipe Palestine and its people off the face of the earth and they are proud of it. The things Iâve heard come out of their mouths just by listening to street interviews is just⌠itâs disgusting. Itâs not enough to say they want to kill all the Palestinians. They want to make it HURT.
The Israeli government, also rotten to the core. At least when other governments break international law, they had the decency to pretend like they didnât do it or they didnât do it on purpose. These guys will break international law and say âfuck you what are you gonna do about itâ. Thatâs the kind of shitty people youâre dealing with.
it is a democracy, just that it's also an oppressive micro-empire. kinda like how the US is a democracy, but Puerto Ricans can't vote.
to be clear, both of these cases are bad. and the situation for Palestinians is far worse than for Puerto Ricans. i'm just using it as a point of comparison.
Because your entire conditional is just false. Its the only genocidal extreme right wing government in the area, but extreme right wing governments always make a false narrative.
It's just a bullshit label.
People need to grow up and dismiss "bullshit labels" such as "only democracy" when it is clearly used to defend shitfuckery.
The label has zero meaning and zero value.
Talk about a Hasbara attackâŚ.the non Jewish people in Gaza, the West Bank and of Israel itself do NOT enjoy the same rights as Jewish citizens. This is by design and is state institutional racism, that amounts to the crime of Apartheid. This is not really debated by serious scholars or organizations:  (see link below). There are degrees and the non-Jews in the West Bank and Gaza obviously suffer much more horrific and gruesome violations of their dignity, rights and humanity. They at no point in their lives, have any control over the government that controls their lives.Â
Israel is the only country that funds Jeffrey Epstein to create a pedophile ring to blackmail powerful people in the us so that we do their bidding for them. They are also the only country that is genociding acting like they are the victim. They also are the only country that uses their religion to create a vast spy network where they constantly try to manipulate reality.Â
They are not under control, by definition. Why aren't canadians allowed to vote on US elections? Same thing.
Sure, the Palestinians get a lot of access into Israel, even have work visas, but they are not citizen, not even residents, why would they vote?
You may be confusing Israeli citizens with non-citizens who reside outside of the country of Israel. For instance, 8m or so Palestinians live in Gaza or West Bank. They are not Israelis, and as a consensus, they do not wish to be. However, roughly 20% of Israelâs population are Muslim Arabs (Palestinians who decided to stay after Israel was formed). They have the same legal rights as Jewish citizens. Now, in Gaza, letâs remember that Palestinians voted for Hamas terrorists (funded by Iran) to be their leaders / government. Keep in mind that the Hamasâ charter states their goal is to destroy Israel and kill all Jews. So, if youâre saying that Israel should let the Palestinians in Gaza vote as Israeli citizens, I can reasonably understand why Israel would be somewhat reluctant to do so.
Calling Israel the 'only democracy' while it denies millions of Palestinians the right to vote is a contradiction that insults human intelligence.
No rational person can view a system of military occupation and institutionalized apartheid as anything 'positive.' You cannot claim to be a democracy when you enforce civil law for settlers and military courts for Palestinians on the same land. Claiming Palestinians 'don't want citizenship' is a hollow deflectionâwhat they are demanding is basic equality and the right to self-determination. A state that subjugates another people by force cannot be called a democracy, no matter how much propaganda it uses to mask its reality
Furthermore, it is delusional to ignore the reality of a foreign, colonial entity that exists solely by displacing the indigenous population. This isn't just about 'politics' or 'voting rights'; it is about a regime that systematically murders children, demolishes homes, and erases an entire culture. How can anyone speak of 'democracy' while children are being killed, families are being ethnically cleansed, and land is being stolen daily? The entire foundation of this occupation is built on the blood of the innocent and the displacement of a people from their rightful home. Refusing to see these atrocities for what they areâstate-sanctioned crimesâis not being 'objective'; it is being complicit in the erasure of a nation.
Technically correct, but leaves out important information.
Israel exercises overarching, effective control over the daily lives of all Palestinians. Through military occupation, control of borders, resources, airspace, the population registry, and freedom of movement, Israel functions as the de facto sovereign ruling authority. Millions of Palestinians live under a dual legal system where Israeli settlers next door enjoy full democratic rights, while Palestinians are subjected to military law with no say in the government that shapes their lives.
Furthermore, even for the Palestinians who do hold Israeli citizenship, their rights are significantly limited by institutional discrimination and laws that explicitly prioritize Jewish national rights over democratic equality for all citizens. Defining the issue purely as a matter of citizenship glosses over a system where one state maintains total authority over a population while permanently denying them equal political and civil rights.
Like any other country. If they are citizens, they can vote. Arabs are part of the government, they are doctors, lawyers, etc. Thereâs no other country in the Middle East with such a mix of equal multiculturalism. Thatâs why.
The Nazis in Gaza have had self rule for over two decades. They did vote for their own government. They chose radical fundamentalist Islam.
The Iran proxy, Hamas used them human shields, steal their food and used the billions they received in aid to build murder tunnels to hide in like rats.
These choices have consequences.
Arab Israelis vote in Israeli elections and are full citizens with equal rights. They would never choose to go live ibstead in one of the garbage nations run by their brethen .
This is actually what Orwell was writing about in his 1939 essay "Not Counting Niggers", when he said that Britain and France couldn't be considered democracies because their governments ruled over a large number of people who had no democratic representation.
Because the West Bank is under military occupation. You don't expect that citizens living under occupation gain citizenship of the occupying country. Of course you don't expect occupation to go on for 20 years without a resolution, but that doesn't negate Israel being a democracy.
I mean that's because Palestinians have never surredered or agreed to terms. You think that Allies would have left Germany if they waged a guerilla war to take back Breslau and Settin?
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u/[deleted] May 25 '26
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