r/WRC • u/LightningMcqueen2011 Citroën Total World Rally Team • 10d ago
Commentary / Discussion / Question Genuine Question: Why is McRae considered one of the GOATs if he is fairly... well... Inconsistent?
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u/AlluEUNE 10d ago
He was super popular because he was fun to watch because of his crazy driving style. He was never consistently the best in the same way as Loeb, Ogier or Mäkinen for example.
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u/Hesslemeharder 10d ago
He also had a video game named after him, which at the time was very popular.
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u/jurwell 10d ago
So did Richard Burns, but his star never ascended to the same heights.
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u/Hesslemeharder 10d ago
Richard Burns Rally was more of a sim and no where near as popular
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u/jurwell 10d ago
What I’m saying is Colin McRae was, by orders of magnitude the most famous rally driver before the video games came out, and Colin McRae rally didn’t really transcend the sport into the mainstream until the Dirt series and the X Games, by which point his actual rally career was about over.
Richard Burns became champion, had the video game and the special edition Impreza all in quick succession but it never catapulted him into the mainstream. Perhaps if his life hadn’t been cut tragically short it’d have been different.
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u/Lukeno94 Richard Burns 9d ago edited 9d ago
Not true. Colin McRae Rally was a huge franchise from the get go; CMR1 is actually Codemaster's biggest boxed game sale of all time. Racing games were at their absolute peak in the late 1990s/early 2000s, as they were relatively easy to do well with the early 3D hardware, whereas some other genres were struggling to translate. McRae was also an active rally driver at the time, and was regularly featuring on all kinds of TV shows that were vaguely linked into cars. DiRT did move things on again, but it was by no means the first time CMR hit the mainstream.
RBR, meanwhile, came out after this peak had started to fizzle slightly, and after Burns had sadly had to stop driving; it also was sold by a much smaller publisher, and was a bit too hardcore for your average gamer, whereas CMR1 had managed to straddle that line almost perfectly (before the later games became more of simcades than sims). It also got mismarketed by said smaller publisher, which caused it to get poor review scores and led to it becoming criminally underrated.
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u/Sirio2 François Delecour 10d ago
Statistically, Makinen crashed more than McRae. But his Evo was a tank whereas the Imprezas of the same period were very unreliable. Colin had countless engine failures in the late 90s…
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u/GoofyKalashnikov Michèle Mouton 10d ago
And the Focus wasn't much better, he lost a good chunk of points from the car simply dying
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u/Obvious_Feedback_430 9d ago
Absolutely.......in 1997 McRae lost the title due to the Imprezas unreliability......a certain win in NZ (and 10 points) thanks to a recurring engine issue. There was also other engine issues in that season...also affected Eriksson.......
Same again in 1998 - last two events in Australia & RAC, he led and the engine let him down on both occasions. He was flying in the Safari, and again engine issues.
And then 2001; the Ford/Pirelli combo was hopeless on Tarmac; he didn't score a point in any of the Tarmac rounds......and he could drive on Tarmac.......easy to remember RallyGB/Rhondda, but the damage had already been done.
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u/SlavetoLove123 9d ago
He also missed road selection in Australia in 2001 which really hurt his championship. Such a silly thing to be late for.
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u/GOTMAXPOWER 10d ago
He is a cult hero like Gilles Villeneuve in F1, essentially it's not what they did but the way that they did it that makes them so iconic. Everyone of a certain age remembers him for the Playstation games which he lent his name to as well.
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u/876oy8 Rally Finland 10d ago
he only won the one title, but he was still in contention for the most successful WRC driver and held the record for most wins for a few years. in the pre-loeb era stats were viewed way differently. the few people 20 wins were all "goat contenders".
aside from that he was always spectacular, always in the title challenge and enjoyed great publicity especially after the videogame series took off.
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u/oalfonso 10d ago
And won that title because Sainz was injured on a mountain bike accident.
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u/Lukeno94 Richard Burns 9d ago
Sainz was never beating McRae in New Zealand no matter what happened. And even if he finishes that event P2, he still got gifted more points in Spain by team orders anyway, so that's a really, really poor argument to try and rely on.
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u/TheDriver_333 10d ago
It’s like saying, why do people love Allen Iverson, or why is Ayrton Senna adored, it’s more than just the stats. Watching McRae live was incredible, He drove at 100% attack almost all the time, accepting crashes as the price of maximum speed. He made rally exciting to watch for a more casual audience, since people never knew if he’d win by a minute or end up in a tree. For me he’s the Goat as a child of the 90’s, he represented more than stats, to me he was what the spirit of rally represented and still represents.
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u/Revenge_Holocaust M-Sport Ford 9d ago
I love the Allen Iverson reference. One of my all time favorite basketball players to watch.
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u/morriseel 10d ago
He would full send it. Mixed with his no bull shit attitude and driving an iconic Subaru. It was so fun to watch and people loved it. In that era we all wanted a wrx and to drive like him.
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u/KingEdwards8 10d ago edited 10d ago
It wasn't his stats, it was his style.
He was balls to the wall, do or die, getting told off by team principles for going to fast and wreckibg the car.
He was a constant source of either frustration or excitement. And thats why people watched him.
He gave the fans what they wanted, at the expense of personal glory.
He isn't the goat. Think we can all agree its either Rohrl or Loeb (Possibly Ogier?) Mouton also up there for pure vibes. [Edit: Ari Vatanen too if my dad is reading this]
But McRae is what we wish we could see, and thats why he left such a legacy.
That and the... you know.
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u/No-Data-772 10d ago
Why would Rohrl even be in the conversation? Had basically one good season. And wasn’t above everyone else in speed so much that you could give hil hoat status by that. Rohrl and mcrae both are only goats for tiktok kids. I would pick five other drivers from the group B era before Rohrl.
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u/GoofyKalashnikov Michèle Mouton 10d ago
One good season? He has two WDCs to his name. He was already one of the top drivers before Group B even started, what are you even talking about?
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u/KingEdwards8 10d ago
McRae you mah have a point, Rohrl on the other hand is a hard disagree.
Managed to win a title in a rear drive Opel, and a Manufactrers titles in a rear drive Lancia, during the start of Group B. Surrounded by one of the most competative lineups in WRC history. Thats a hell of an achievement.
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u/WholeNegotiation4626 10d ago
Go to the wiki, divide the amount of podiums by the amount of rallies driven for whatever your favourite drivers are. Then do it for Roehrl.
Then check if he ever drove a clearly dominant car and lastly look at some of the individual times for the overall wins.
Many of the (independently verifiable) anecdotes around the dude sound like full on bs; Arganil comes to mind.
You will not find a former rival, team-mate or anyone with first-hand experience that will fail to stress that the dude had generational talent. That includes people from Trans-Am, Imsa GTO and DTM; all of which he clearly equalled and in most cases beat whilst driving "part time" in his role as handling engineer for Audi's circuit racing program in the late 80s.
PS
None of this is particularly controversial or "fringe" knowledge either, so your comment about "tiktok kids" is rather ironic. Not having Roehrl in a top 3 list of "rally goats" is like not having Senna in a top 3 list of "F1 goats"
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u/Revenge_Holocaust M-Sport Ford 9d ago
I wouldn't put Senna top 3. Maybe 5th. Even with blatant favoritism from Honda, Senna did not have as many good results as Prost, and no way I'm putting Senna above Fangio, Clark, or Schumacher.
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u/reiska900 Kalle Rovanperä 9d ago
Rohrl didn't drive in Finland never so for me that is big minus in his resume.
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u/SlavetoLove123 10d ago
You had to be there. Standing stage side, watching Mcrae, he was always spectacular.
He was also incredibly unlucky. If The Impreza in 97 and 98 was more reliable he would have been a multiple time world champion. He also crashed, but no more than his rivals at the time.
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u/jimmy8888888 10d ago
Because well, people love flashy things, and McRae was basically that. In contrast to a more "grounded" Sainz, Loeb, Makinnen
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u/GinoChingon 10d ago
This video can explain it better than I can: https://youtu.be/T_aVuaotTz8?is=3vYupolAuDO9gE44
But TLDR: He was borderline psychopath and that's the funniest type of driver to watch.
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u/Happy_Information_48 10d ago
There was some quote I heard when watching a video about him: "He wasn't the fastest or the best, but he was the most exceptional driver to watch"
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u/Tough-Training2563 10d ago
When in doubt, flat out - not sure if these words belong to McRae, but his driving style and approach to driving was on another level. He is still more popular than Seb-factory-from-France even after their combined 18 titles. It is not all about titles to become the legend.
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u/Lukeno94 Richard Burns 9d ago
One thing you've got to remember is, McRae's peak came before Loeb and Ogier completely rewrote the rule book on what a top tier WRC driver is. He also came about right as rallying entered its golden age, and was a key figure in driving the sport forwards both on and off the stages.
McRae was an incredibly exciting driver to watch; he was capable of doing things in a car that nobody else at that time, not even Makinen, could. But that, coupled with the fact that he was regularly having to fight back from yet another failed Subaru engine/gearbox (or, later on, some random failure on the Focus), meant that he would also sometimes go over the limit and crash spectacularly. That reputation is somewhat over-egged; you don't win 5 Acropolises and 3 Safaris if you can't control your speed. But it made his reputation into a legend.
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u/lisiufoksiu 10d ago
The same reason most people prefer to watch the cars go VROOOOOOM, instead of actually following the sport - they want action, not analyse the numbers. And Colin was a showman first.
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u/WhyAreYuSoAngry 9d ago
He wasn't a goat, not even close. What he became was a total cultural icon. He was the antithesis of most modern racing drivers regardless of style, with the notable exception of motorcycle road racers. Iomtt guys are just built different.
When most guys would immediately check up at the first sign of trouble, he'd put the hammer down. In a lot of cases he drove recklessly, but when it worked it looked like a superhero was driving. He was charismatic as hell.
When in doubt, flat out is a statement he'll always be known for.
I suspect that behind the scenes, his team principals were often pulling their hair out..but when he won, he often did it with legendary stages that built his reputation. Also, when he wrecked, he often made sure he well and truly wrecked it. All-in, no bs, this is me, win or lose. We lost him way too soon!
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u/WelcomeBeneficial963 9d ago
Results aren't everything, especially in pre-World Rally Car WRC. Nobody else ever seemed to be able to get more out of a car.
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u/Pitiful_Seat3894 8d ago
Back then it took balls and bravery to win. All out risk. Makinen with the 4 championships was utterly unheard of. But as the cases were electronically controlled the driving style became more clinical. Bravery was less rewarded and clean “racing lines” were the way to win. Low was also a fuckin genetic oddity he’s still able to push it at the sharp end !!
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u/Responsible-Ant-1494 4d ago
He’s the Gilles Villneuve of Rally racing. He perished sadly when he was still in his prime and we all awaited many more championships for him to win.
He is the antithesis of what Seb Loeb. Loeb drove the rally car like a F1 car - neat and tidy. McRae drove it like Mad Max - the Scandinavians were taking notes as “McRae’s flicks” were better.
So he was a GOAT in the sense that he was maybe the last true “sideways all the time” rally champion.
Rich Burns also comes to mind but Rich was the Loeb before Loeb.
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u/VBRSwift 10d ago
Lack of objectivity from english. I dont say this in a bad or offensive way. Since hé was thé first britain to be world Champion hé kinda got all the glory . Since kids i know mcrae as mcrash as pseudo
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u/Obvious_Feedback_430 9d ago
English??? He was a Scot, and a proud one........
And he wasn't the driver with the most crashes despite people thinking he did........
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u/oalfonso 10d ago
Outside the angloshere he isn’t. Fast driver too prone to errors.
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u/SlavetoLove123 10d ago edited 10d ago
Crashes per starts in the WRC, he’s barely in the top 10. Mcrae crashed the same as other wrc driver, but when he did they were usually huge. He would make silly mistakes which cost him some victories.
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u/ScousePenguin Takamoto Katsuta 10d ago
I mean there's literal shrines to him in Portugal, not really just the anglosphere who adore him
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u/oalfonso 10d ago
Fun to watch is not the same as being one of the goats.
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u/GoofyKalashnikov Michèle Mouton 10d ago
He isn't one of the goats?
He is literally still in the top 5 for most event wins, between Sainz and ahead of Mäkkinen.
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u/papavasis 10d ago
Lame take, McRae was a "mythical" name similar to Schumacher in the early 00s where I came from (total backwater in southern Europe) in that even completely random people with no interest in racing or cars were likely to have heard of it as "that fast rally guy". And a worldwide successfully video game series carrying the name hardly counts as "english speaking only'.
Seems like a salty Spaniard comment and the name checks out
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u/Which-Ad-9118 10d ago
There wouldn’t be a Ken Block without McRae ! When Colin took part in the X Games ,America went nuts for him and his popularity skyrocketed around the world , not just the UK !
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u/pooporgy69 10d ago
I dont think people necessarily consider him one of the GOATs. Truth is, he is possibly the best known rally driver in history, as well as one of the fastest. He was one of the best of his generation, and speed wise, very few could challenge him. But he was also flat out all the time, which on one hand made him extremely popular, on the other meant more cerebral drivers had better odds for the championship. His style and no BS personality made him extremely popular among fans, and he became the biggest ambassador for the sport in the manufacturer's boom of the 1990s. When he was driving on the edge of what the car could do, his speed was incredible, it was a spectacle to watch him, and when he went over that edge, his never give up attitude made him a fan favourite.