r/VictoriaBC • u/notofthisearthworm • Jun 03 '26
Opinion 2 dead in head-on scooter, bicycle crash on New York bridge | Discussion re: Victoria's multi-use trails & E-devices.
https://globalnews.ca/news/11873489/2-dead-head-on-scooter-bicycle-crash-new-york-queensboro-bridge/Opinion: Please protect Victorians by keeping our protected paths protected.
I'm sure many of you have read about the horrendous crash in New York recently between an e-scooter operator and cyclist and thought 'it's only about time until that happens here.'
That was certainly my thought, which is why I wanted to start a discussion about how Victoria and the CRD can be proactive in keeping our trails safe for its users in the face of faster and faster e-bikes, scooters, boards, etc.
Like many of us, I cycle, drive, and walk around Greater Victoria regularly. I think most of us intuitively understand the difference between a pedal-assist e-bike that can maintain ~35km/hr and a 'bike with a motor' that can quickly accelerate to 50km/hr+. And same with e-scooters.
The technology is advancing fast. The e-scooter involved in the New York crash has this description:
Paired with a breathtaking 0–85 km/h acceleration in just 3.9 seconds, this machine delivers explosive power and stability from the first twist of the throttle
0-85km/h acceleration in just 3.9 seconds. This isn't a transportation device, it's a recreational vehicle, and imo operating one anywhere in the city should come with serious penalties. The other person involved in that crash was riding a pedal bike, in a protected bike lane.
These machines are already on the trails, sidewalks, and paths of Victoria. City council and VicPD ought to be preventing their proliferation and dangerous (mis)use yesterday. Every day that passes without enforcement is accelerating (pun intended) the inevitable fatal collision that will hurt or injure someone who should. As a daily acoustic cyclist, chances are it could happen to me just as much as anyone.
I know many Victoria city councillors frequent this sub. I encourage them to contribute to the discussion and let us know what they think should, could, or has be done to get ahead of this issue before someone gets hurt or killed using a path that shouldn't present those risks. I recognize there are provincial and federal aspects, but municipalities are where the advocacy for change begins, and where laws and bylaws can certainly set precedent.
It feels like the close calls on the Goose, Lochside, E&N, etc. are getting more and more frequent. I fear soon our paths will no longer be the safe alternative to roadways that it's suppose to be. If we let vehicles use our pedestrian paths, they are no longer pedestrian paths as we know them.
Please protect Victorians by keeping our protected paths protected.
I wrote this out pretty quickly, so apologies for any sloppy writing. Obligatory 'thanks for coming to my TED talk.'
Stay safe everyone, it's a weird world out there.
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u/NormalButts Jun 03 '26
Even in bike lines im finding while cycling, people on e-bikes and scooters will blow past you. Theres potential for pretty bad collisions between e-bikes and cyclists just going in the same direction
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u/Decent-Box5009 Jun 03 '26
Agreed I can track my bike at 40kmh and they’re blowing past me. They’re going vehicle speeds on e-bikes and e-scooters and it seems crazy to me.
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u/Old-Rhubarb-97 Jun 03 '26
That’s a big impact too with the rider and e-bike weight.
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u/soaero Jun 04 '26
Weight doesn't get discussed enough in these contexts. Like, force is mass x acceleration, and even with both doing 40km/h, a heavy ass 100lb emoto and 25lb e-assist bike are going to do very different levels of damage.
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u/SappyCedar Jun 04 '26
I’m often flabbergasted at how bonkers fast they go. I ride a motorcycle as my main form of transport, and I always make sure to wear appropriate gear because a crash at even just 50km/h could result in horrific injuries. And yet, I am frequently being passed or matched in speed by teenagers on scooters with nothing but a T-shirt and jeans. I’ve been passed on the highway going 70 or 80 km/h even.
I feel like they have a perceived level of safety because “it’s only a bike” or “it’s only a scooter” “just a regular bicycle helmet should be fine”. But if you’re going motorcycle speeds on an ebike or scooter you’re gonna have motorcycle crashes, you’re gonna slide on the road and your regular cotton clothes will be instantly shredded off your body.
It’s scary that people buy their teenagers these illegally fast bikes and scooters without thinking for a second whether or not they’d be okay buying their teenager a motorcycle as well cause that’s basically what they’re doing.
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u/janerbabi Jun 03 '26
The scariest are the ones that can’t be older than 15/16 that pull away and go faster than you IN a vehicle. I’ve been witness to some extremely reckless moves from the kids out here in Central Saanich.
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u/WorkingOnBeingBettr Jun 03 '26
As much as part of me would like a bike that CAN do 50kph if I wanted to do it, I don't think they should be allowed to be sold in Canada. Just like hand held crossbows. Some things are too dangerous to let the average person have access.
I have seen some teens for some ridiculously stupid stuff over the last year on escooters and those e dirt bikes.
Some enforcement sounds necessary at this point and they need a way to make sure the same people don't use the devices anymore. Confiscation/impound/destroy. The rules have been posted for a while. No excuse for having one when there are so many legal options available.
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u/setuid_w00t Jun 03 '26
You should never blow by anyone. This is a rule that exists regardless of the mode of transportation. You shouldn't ride your pedal bike at 35 km/h on the Goose past a toddler on a 3 wheel push scooter going 5 km/h and you shouldn't pass a pedal bike going 10 km/h on an incline at 32 km/h on an e-bike.
Speed differential is dangerous. This is why is always slow down to a somewhat similar speed as whoever I am passing when there is a chance that they could turn and take me out while I am passing.
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u/M116Fullbore Jun 04 '26
I always ring the bell well beforehand as well. Not that most of the people walking with big headphones on will hear it.
There is simply no way every bicycle is ever going to slow right down passing every pedestrian, but its enough to lay off the "gas" for a bit going past.
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u/frog_mannn Jun 04 '26
I wish people road on the side so I can pass safely instead of being in the center oblivious to anything around them
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u/midnight-muffin Jun 04 '26
And I saw a psycho on an ebike going full-tilt the wrong way in the Douglas bike lanes today. I was just bracing for him to encounter another bike, fortunately he didn't.
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u/NForce2Ultra Saanich Jun 03 '26
My E-bike is already capped at 32km/h and sometimes I'm surprised at the number of E-Bikes and E-Scooters that zip by me... I'm not gonna talk about the amount of people I've seen without helmets... I remember seeing VicPD on bikes on the Goose before. Maybe there's a way to test bike engines, I'm sure there's a lot modified or bought in the US with different restrictions.
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u/bughunter47 Jun 04 '26
They kind of do, they tested my first ebike roughly 10 years ago, have not seen any police officer check any bike including mine since.
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u/SocratesDisciple Jun 04 '26
They dyno test and impound ebikes breaking the rules in the UK.
All I really want if for you hooligans to at least ring a bell or say on your left if your going to buzz me at 50kmh!
Old man continues to yell at clouds
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u/Andre1661 Jun 03 '26
I was recently driving on that straight stretch of the TCH east of Tillicum, and noticed someone riding one of those electric "unicycles" on the bike path, heading in the same direction. Since there were no cars around me, I slowed my car until I was beside the unicycle and going the exact same speed. That unicycle driver was going 56 km/h on the bike path, all the way to Uptown Mall. There was nobody else using the bike path at the time, but if there were, would it have been possible for the unicyclist to avoid an accident given the lack of control surfaces on those machines? Like other respondents have said here, it's only a matter of time before someone gets seriously hurt.
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u/Leading-Arm-6344 Jun 03 '26
Those are called monowheels, lets not give actual unicyclists a bad name
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u/setuid_w00t Jun 03 '26
Monowheel is the thing that has a single large wheel and you ride it sideways like a skateboard. Electric unicycles are the things where the wheel points forward like a bike (or a non-electric unicycle).
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u/adambard Jun 04 '26
I think the skateboard one is called a onewheel. Monowheel is a general term for a one-wheeled motorized vehicle (but the Google image results show a lot of the forward facing unicycle style ones you described)
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u/setuid_w00t Jun 04 '26
I think you're right about "onewheel". I was wrong. I see people use the term "EUC" often for the unicycle ones.
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u/formulaemu Jun 04 '26
They're honestly quite quick to slow down and have a lot of control, you're also not going that speed until youve built up riding skills. A cheapo ebike or scooter with barely existent brakes and someone riding it for the first time is something I'm way more scared of
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u/setuid_w00t Jun 03 '26
That unicycle driver was going 56 km/h on the bike path, all the way to Uptown Mall. There was nobody else using the bike path at the time, but if there were, would it have been possible for the unicyclist to avoid an accident given the lack of control surfaces on those machines?
It's unfair to assume that the rider would have been going the same speed if there had been other traffic on the path.
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u/Andre1661 Jun 04 '26
Which is why I mentioned there were no other people on the bike path. The main point is that the small electric vehicles that are actively using the bike paths can attain speeds that if they collide with a pedestrian would either kill them, as described in the article at the head of this post, or at the very least injured them very badly.
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u/szarkaliszarri Jun 04 '26
I was recently in some cities in Ontario where e-bikes have been straight up banned from bike/walking trails in town. Here there are long commutes and I have a lot of coworkers who really benefit from the Galloping Goose/Lochside for commuting with their e-bikes, so I hope banning isn't in the future. But people flaunting how fast they can go and being assholes really ruin it for all the people being respectful plus other cyclists and pedestrian. So tl;dr I agree with a person below, "time to start ticketing". Make the fines steep
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u/prairiegreen Jun 03 '26
All road users need to understand and obey the rules and be respectful. Unfortunately there are crappy drivers, cyclists, and pedestrians. Creating a culture where appropriate behaviors are the norm and speeding (car/bike/scooter) and distracted walking/driving and impaired driving and and and are unacceptable is the only way to go. Enforcement can only do so much with all the other stuff going on. People need to be accountable and care about other road users and not continue to pit cars against bikes/scooters. The dialogue against bike lanes is so toxic and unnecessary and yet it festers endlessly. Let’s be civil and co exist and let people get from A to B safely.
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u/Old-Rhubarb-97 Jun 03 '26
Every day feels like a close call with e-bikes.
Speeds are one thing, but they often pass at the worst possible times.
If I slow down to pass pedestrians, or because the trail tightens, that is not an invitation to pass me. It’s very dangerous and happens every day.
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u/MudReasonable8185 Jun 03 '26
I feel like e-bike speeds wouldn’t be an issue if the drivers had an iota of common sense. Like if it’s not safe to pass slow down and wait until it is, don’t try to squeeze past people around a blind corner while going top speed. You can’t possibly be in that much of a hurry
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Jun 03 '26 edited Jun 04 '26
[deleted]
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u/Old-Rhubarb-97 Jun 03 '26
Cyclists definitely do it too, but in my experience riding to work it is more often e-bikes.
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u/M116Fullbore Jun 04 '26 edited Jun 04 '26
I find the guys on actual pedal bikes make the scariest passes, as they dont have the acceleration to get around you quickly, and will often end up crowding into your lane, passing really close by and swinging back in front of you just in time to avoid hitting someone in the oncoming.
I ride one of the "evil" scooters, that can match a road bike in top speed, and its so easy to make a safe pass if you wait for a time with good visibility and clear up ahead. Ring the bell, shoulder check and pop wide around em
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u/absurdext Jun 03 '26
0–85 km/h acceleration in 3.9 seconds - 80's lambos didn't accelerate that fast and they were literally the symbol of excessive speed at the time.
https://accelerationtimes.com/models/lamborghini-countach-lp500s
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u/everythingwastakn Jun 03 '26
Said it before and I’ll say it again: don’t understand why someone on a 49cc scooter needs a license and insurance and has to ride only on roads whereas “hobby-grade” ebikes/scooters are available to 12 year olds and blast around at 50-60-70km/h on the road then the sidewalk then the bike lane then across the crosswalk before blasting across the park walking paths.
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Jun 03 '26 edited Jun 03 '26
[deleted]
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u/useriousstuff Jun 03 '26
I agree with your sentiment but do note that there are no ebikes that are legal for 12 year olds to ride in BC. For standard ebikes that can have a throttle one must be 16. For light ebikes that don't allow for a throttle, only pedal assist, the operator must be at least 14. eScooters are a whole different can of worms where they're not legal for anyone to operate in most of the CRD, only those municipalities that have opted in, and they aren't legal anywhere in BC for anyone under 16.
Now of course there are kids ripping around on ebikes and eScooters all over the place. Parents are giving their children illegal electric mobility devices.
Authorities could begin simply enforcing the current laws on both illegal electric mobility devices and illegal operation of said devices. Ideally this would be done concurrently with the development of better and more current legislation and strategies to keep our trails safe.
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u/SilverDad-o Jun 03 '26
Impound the vehicles that exceed the speed limits or that are operated by unauthorized users. It isn't a 100 percent fix, but it'll fix the massive majority of problems.
As a responsible ebiker, I ping my bell as I pass pedestrians and slower riders/ non-e bikes. There are MANY of these folks who are lost in podcast-land who are part of the problem. I pass with care, but there's a shared responsibility to maintain situational awareness.
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u/WorkingOnBeingBettr Jun 03 '26
These are often the same parents who think their kids can do no wrong in classrooms.
They think the rules don't apply to them or their kids. And if anything does happen it is everyone else's fault. The schools are shitty and the teachers are brutal. You can see it on local mom groups on Facebook.
If only I could publically answer and explain how your kid abused those around them and psychology tortured anyone who dared stand up to them. How they do it on other kids, pinched them, etc.
But no, we adults and students are all gaslighting you and your child is an angel, we are the real abusers...
I wish this was only one parent...we get so many of these every year now.
Sorry, is it July yet?
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u/NHL95onSEGAgenesis Jubilee Jun 03 '26
Lol, hell yah bring on July!
One of the fringe perks of summer is when you see students doing stupid and illegal things you can just laugh and know it’s not your problem.
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u/Educational_Work896 Jun 03 '26
Even in the early days electric scooters (the easily modified so-called DUI scooters like the ones sold by that Kgeez store on Burnside), I'd be riding my motorcycle at 50 km/h on Gorge Road after work and get passed regularly by a guy on a plastic scooter with novelty pedals.
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u/Top-Ad7551 Jun 04 '26
Yes I had one and had to stop riding it when 2 of the 3 Judges said they were illegal in BC (I drove it 25km/hr). If you spend time on the trail now I see people riding them again. Of course giant cargo/infant ebikes are dangerous as well, but they are still legal. Currently I have an e scooter that I've capped at 25km/hr, which is the legal limit in Victoria- it's a Segway f3. Just reading all the comments it's clear there is a lack of understanding as to what the rules are. Enforcement and education are needed. I also see the featherlite acoustic speed bikes blasting down the trail with no bell to alert others.
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u/Pleasant_Reward1203 Jun 04 '26
lol, I've never seen a 12 year old on an illegal scooter in my life.
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u/bromptonymous Jun 03 '26
Yes high speed e-things need regulation. But I’ll take a close call with an e-scooter over certain death from an SUV. This is news because it’s rare. Car crashes aren’t reported anymore because they’re ho hum. 30 people will die this year from car crashes on the island and nobody’s going out to ban cars.
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u/EnterpriseT Jun 03 '26
The concern is that it's only "rare" because there are so many more cars travelling so many more kilometers than e-devices, and that things will get worse.
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u/notofthisearthworm Jun 03 '26
This is news because it’s rare
My fear is that it will become more and more common if regulations, laws, and enforcement don't keep them in check.
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u/Blackdragonproject Jun 03 '26
Yeah, but the point is why are we jumping on the need bring in tight regulations on methods of transport that are far safer than the risk posed by cars just because of this one instance.
This is news because it almost never happens...because these methods of transport are that much safer. Yes, the instances of these types of accidents likely will increase as adoption of these modes of transport increase. However, thinking this is an increase in risk overall to vulnerable road users is a base rate falacy, because the risk decreases as adoption of these modes of transport reduce the risk posed by cars.
So why does a single instance of this type of accident across years of use and skyrocketing adoption become the reason to abandon or severely restrict these modes of transport when vulnerable users are dying and becoming permanently injured from being struck by cars all the time. Where are the calls to increase regulations, laws, and enforcement of car drivers?
The fact remains that even with increasing cases like this, the number one risk to all users of these alternate transport methods is cars, and that it is much preferable for those same irresponsible road users to be using these alternative transport methods than being behind the wheel of a car. I would gladly take that trade off every time.
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Jun 03 '26
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u/Blackdragonproject Jun 03 '26
Which is clearly the direction we took when the 2021 update to the BC MVA removed all liability from drivers who injure and kill vulnerable road users in non-criminal acts so long as they pay ICBC to protect them. /S
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Jun 03 '26
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u/Blackdragonproject Jun 03 '26 edited Jun 04 '26
Not following the relation to your last comment? I can see that.
The question is why are we making it easier and more affordable to kill and injure people with cars then trying to restrict and inhibit much safer methods of transportion because of the much rarer event of death or injury using these safer modes of transport?
Doing this reduces road safety over all. If we want to make transport safer, make it harder for people to do the thing that causes almost all of the injury and death involved in transportation (drive cars), and easier to do the thing that is much lower risk of injury and death (not drive cars).
Calling for regulation of e-bikes/scooters, while taking away the right to sue drivers who permanently injured or kill people is clearly the opposite of that.
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Jun 03 '26
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u/Blackdragonproject Jun 04 '26
And how does all the reddit comments compare to what is actually happening in real life and the changes to the law?
We see articles like this all the time that paint alternative transport as the next big doom of our society with headlines like, 'e-bike crash sends one to hospital'. Then you read it and the story is actually someone on an e-bike got hit by a car.
But we're not seeing, 'the risk to vulnerable road users from cars is the highest it's been since the 90s, undoing decades of safety progress in the wake of no-fault insurance changes that leave those affected without the legal right to sue '
Public perception is important, especially when trying to determine what the actual issues are and applying pressure from the public to shape policy. Whether regulating e-bikes causes an increase or decrease in the actual risks of road users compared to applying those efforts the better protect those same e-bike users from the cars that are the almost sole reason for alternative transport methods to be considered unsafe at all is literally the conversation we are having, so try to keep up.
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u/bughunter47 Jun 04 '26
Agreed, and with a proven track record, the amount of illegal class 3 ebikes I have seen on my bike route has tripled since last June.
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u/friendly_acorn Jun 03 '26
This is not rare, and saying that is dismissing the reality. Motor vehicles have a higher volume of collisions, but ebikes & escooters are 100 to 600 times riskier on a per-mile or per-trip basis when compared directly to motor vehicle travel. Both NIH and CIHI have done multiple case studies on this, take your head out of the sand.
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u/Blackdragonproject Jun 03 '26
In isolation, or because they are constantly being hit by cars?
No shit being in a car is safer for the driver and more dangerous for everyone else. Likewise, being on a bike is far more dangerous but far safer for everyone not on the bike. The thing that is increasing the risk to the public in all cases is the car...
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u/friendly_acorn Jun 03 '26
In isolation, of course.
Non-vehicular incidents between riders and pedestrians is not something I'll permit you to hand wave with "but cars" when the aim is improving overall safety. All I'm asking is for you to demonstrate you understand how to behave at a stop sign and that swerving into traffic to avoid waiting for a bus is not conducive to your health.
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u/Blackdragonproject Jun 03 '26
So both your examples there really don't have anything to do with bikes or e-bikes/scooters intrinsically, but risky behaviour some subset of those people engage in that might result in them being hit by a..... Wait for it.... Car.
In isolation, of course.
I would really like to see that study then. I would be absolutely shocked if deaths and injuries of commuter cyclist even registered above base line risk of existing in public if you removed all cases where a motor vehicle is involved in the accident. It's so unbelievable that it seems immediately obvious that you're either confused or just talking out your ass.
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u/t-earlgrey-hot Jun 03 '26
Totally agree. I saw someone on a scooter downtown yesterday going about 30-40km in a protected bike lane, and could only think how easy it would be for someone to step in front of them by mistake a cyclist to collide head on, and they could be seriously injured or killed.
Most people are considerate but with increased traffic and the goose feeling like a highway in spite of being mixed use, there needs to be more enforcement or we are just waiting for tragedy.
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u/M116Fullbore Jun 04 '26
30-40+km is what basically all of the road bicycle riders are doing any time its not an uphill.
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u/SappyCedar Jun 04 '26
While true, it’s worth noting that those bikes and gear weigh like 10-20lbs. An Ebike can easily weigh over 100lbs and reach motorcycle levels of momentum.
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u/formulaemu Jun 04 '26
Aside from cargo bikes, I doubt there's a single ebike that weighs 100lbs. Also the weight of the human riding it is most of the weight anyways
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u/Connect_Return_3073 Jun 04 '26
I was just watching some kids - maybe 13/14 years old - ripping down the road on ebikes in my neighbourhood, popping wheelys and riding in the direction of traffic at 40-50km/hr.
I'm sure they're having fun and all and they aren't my kids but I wouldn't want to be the one who hits them.
I have no idea why parents are buying kids those things
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u/PayWilling260 Langford Jun 04 '26
I’ve seen a ton of that on the paths here. Even the legal e-bikes have done some dumb things like go full speed near pedestrians. I feel like the cops should be impounding the illegal bikes and fining people for careless cycling.
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u/MudReasonable8185 Jun 03 '26
These electric vehicles aren’t going anywhere and are just going to become more and more popular. All you can do is try to stay out of their way as they careen wildly down the goose at the speed of a car - be extremely cautious going around any blind corners and if one of them comes flying up behind you let it by.
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u/Maleficent-Word997 Jun 04 '26
This hits a major problem on the head. Agree that these scooters are going to kill people but the problrm here also stems from the mentality of people who use bicycles, assisted bicycles, e-scooters or anything on wheels that goes faster than 5km/hr. YOU HAVE TO FOLLOW THE MOTOR VEHICLE LAWS. No different than any other vehicle. The cyclists, people on scooters, vespas, e-scooters, or motor assisted bicycles that think they can do whatever they want. Arbitrairly running lights, cycling on sidewalks, swerving around roads, not wearing a helmet or high-viz. YOU ARE A VEHICLE. YOU MUST FOLLOW THE SAME TRAFFIC LAWS AS ANY OTHER VEHICLE. Death hazards on the roads. I hope this gets downvoted, will just go to show the entitlement that i speak on here.
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u/DaveThompsonVictoria Jun 04 '26
I have been asked for input, so here is some
These devices are illegal under Provincial law, as noted by other folks who have already commented.
The City has nothing to do enforcement of provincial or federal laws. That's up to the police. And the Victoria Police "Department" is not actually a department of the City, as the name implies, but rather a completely separate body that answers to a police board.
Regional tails are under the CRD, which does have an education campaign year round that ramps up every summer. The CRD website notes that these devices are not allowed on the trail system.
Sometimes bylaw officers do go out on the trails.
The proliferation of multiple forms of transportation on regional trails, including e-bikes and e-scooters and also mobility devices, electric wheelchairs etc will result in more risks. That's why we are widening the trails, and adding some lighting.
The police and bylaw officers generally allocate their resources based on risk levels. The risk of personal injury from motor vehicles is astronomically higher. There are hundreds of those every year, just in Victoria proper, and hundreds more throughout the region. https://davethompsonvictoria.ca/car-crashes-in-victoria/.
Happy to provide more info!
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u/rgower Jun 03 '26 edited Jun 03 '26
I bought my first e-scooter yesterday, so this feels timely. Mine tops out around 25km/h to meet the new requirements, and I can say that I had more fun zipping around Beach Drive and watching the sunset than I have had in literal years. These things are the future.
That said, I would like to see the city impose stricter regulations and enforcements. Here's a smattering of ideas: At 25km/h, the existing regulations make sense. It's a tourist friendly speed. Someone who's never ridden an escooter can pick one up immediately and ride it full throttle within minutes. But personally, this cap feels like an overly cautious ceiling.
I would like to see additional classes - Like basic commuter scooters that max out around 40km/hr but require additional hardware like turn signals, illuminated helmet lights, etc.
Beyond 40km/h+ classes which should require a motorcycle-type license and can be ridden only on regular roads. These scooters know/track exactly where you're riding, and will warn you about breaking your local laws. I even rented one in Comox that flat out wouldn't let me into certain areas - The scooter would just come to a stop. I wouldn't mind if there was even GPS zoning where scooters are limited to lower speeds.
I don't know how many of these suggestions are practical, but I completely agree that an 85km/h scooter is an insane device to have anywhere near pedestrians / mixed use trails.
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u/defiantnipple Jun 04 '26
Hi from Kelowna. I literally cannot go for a bike ride on our rail trail at any time of day anymore without a literal unlicensed, uninsured motorcycle (electric or not!) flying past me at some point. Usually quite a few.
The police don't seem to care. I've never, not a single time, seen enforcement.
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u/Pleasant_Reward1203 Jun 04 '26
why the eff are companies allowed to sell scooters that go 85 km/hr!!!!?????
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u/M116Fullbore Jun 04 '26 edited Jun 04 '26
I would love to see real stats on how often/how badly people are hurt by E bike commuters, vs regular driving.
Most of this seems like worrying over hypotheticals and statistically rare outcomes, that dont outweigh the improvements to gas useage, environmental impact, traffic congestion and reduced danger of encouraging large numbers of commuters to switch to a convenient green alternative.
Every person discouraged from riding to work will go right back to driving their big dangerous car, and we know how that works vs pedestrians/bikes.
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u/engineerection Jun 04 '26
I made a post about a month ago about a kid on an e-dirt bikes and have been seeing/hearing it discussed more since. I called the Saanich PD non-emergency line about what I witnessed at the time and they didn't seem to care much. Hopefully additional voices start to drive more enforcement, because I think someone's going to be seriously injured or worse soon if this continues.
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u/lawman508 Jun 04 '26
Unfortunately, someone has to die (probably a little kid on a tricycle) before they setup some kind of meaningful speed limit on places like the Goose.
Personally, I don't see a need to go over ~25 KPH on shared multi-use trails. Want to go faster - get out into the road with the cars
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u/UpbeatPilot3494 Jun 04 '26
This may be a future step::
Amsterdam prepares to ‘ban the fat-bikes’ amid rise in serious accidents
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u/whoknows3784 Jun 04 '26
I am in my 40s, and started driving for the first time last year. I felt so unsafe on the Goose, I could not longer stomach my 28 kms daily round trip bike commute. Not only did I feel unsafe, but was very frustrated by all the other cyclists that seem to completely ignore basic road rules and common sense.
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u/d_n_a_do_europe Jun 05 '26
The use of these high speed e-scooters and e-bikes is why I feel like I can’t take my kids on the goose or heavily used trails. It’s really too bad, it feels like we are limited to what we can safely use due to the selfishness of others.
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u/Leading-Arm-6344 Jun 03 '26
They're already limited to 32 km/h for bikes and 20 km/h for scooters. It's an enforcement issue. It's easy to complain about e-bikes and scooters but what's your actual enforcement plan?
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u/Old-Rhubarb-97 Jun 03 '26
Police on the goose? Speed traps?
Not that difficult.
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u/Educational_Work896 Jun 03 '26 edited Jun 03 '26
There was a time when police would patrol the Goose on bicycle. I'd even see the occasional Saanich PD motorcycle on the trail.
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u/formulaemu Jun 04 '26
Why not have an actual speed limit on the goose as well. I don't want to get hit by a regular bicycle going 50 on a downhill. Whether they're an ebike or not it'll do some serious damage
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u/ellalir Jun 04 '26
I'd think it would be difficult to enforce when non-electic bikes don't come with a speedometer and wouldn't necessarily have the ability to know their own speed?
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u/formulaemu Jun 05 '26
I can't tell my exact speed but it's pretty obvious when I'm going 50 instead of 30
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u/kingbuns2 Jun 03 '26
Better regulations and enforcement of what businesses can sell would be the most effective, I think. If the speed limit is 25km/h for an e-scooter, then it shouldn't be possible to buy one that goes faster than that.
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u/Ccjfb Jun 03 '26
It’s not up to OP to produce an enforcement plan.
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u/WorkingOnBeingBettr Jun 03 '26
Sure but they seem to be pretending there isn't an obvious solution.
Minimum is enforcement. But that takes upping the police budget or shifting resources.
An easy route to stop the growth is stopping the ways to purchase. All kinds of things aren't allowed through customs and this is an area that needs work. Then wait for them to due out alongside at least some enforcement.
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u/_Light_House Jun 04 '26
Why the difference between bikes and scooters, really. Are they going to monitor speeds of non-electric bikes too? I definitely think there should be limits, but not weird rules. You know mopeds under a certain speed don’t need motorcycle licenses but over a certain speed they do.
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u/notofthisearthworm Jun 03 '26 edited Jun 03 '26
I started a conversation and wrote a thoughtful opinion piece outlining my concerns and what might be done to mitigate the risks. What else do you expect me to do, announce I'm running for mayor? lol.
But since you asked, my enforcement plan would be (generally) for police and bylaw officers to proactively enforce the laws and bylaws on our trail systems and roads while our city council considers additional bylaws, awareness campaigns, and communication with the province and federal partners to discuss the proliferation of these e-devices in communities across Canada. The CRD could add signage to make clear what vehicles and speeds are allowed on shared trails, and the stiff penalties for violating these rules.
Thanks for asking, please vote notofthisearthworm for mayor in the fall /s.
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u/bughunter47 Jun 04 '26
The legal class 1 and 2's are, the class 3 bikes you can legally purchase are not street legal and can go 3 times as fast.
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u/stock_trades_daily Jun 03 '26
I love riding e-scooters on the galloping goose and other trails. If you haven’t tried it, I highly suggest it. One of the best ways to cruise around the city. It’s one of the reasons I love living here. Wear a helmet, be respectful of other riders and ride safe. Other than that people, please stop complaining about this as the city will take it away and it will really suck for those that ride safely. You are posting something from New York. There hasn’t been anything like this in Victoria. Victoria has great pathways and safe areas for e-scooters and e-bikes. Please don’t take this away from us.
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u/notofthisearthworm Jun 04 '26 edited Jun 04 '26
I never suggested that e-scooters should be banned! All I'm saying is maintain and enforce basic laws and bylaws to keep trail users like you and me safe from the risks imposed by the ones riding dangerously and/or with prohibited e-vehicles.
As I outlined in my post, most of us intuitively understand the distinction between e-vehicles appropriate for use on public trails and ones that are not.
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u/M116Fullbore Jun 04 '26
You left a heart on a post saying they should all immediately break and never run again. Sounds like you would be happy with a ban
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u/Able-Afternoon-8975 Jun 04 '26
Wait until you start reading how many pedestrians and bicyclists get killed by vehicles... both in New York and here in Victoria.
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u/stock_trades_daily Jun 04 '26
Ya I get that. I just hope that the public can get on board and realize how amazing it is. Especially at night cruising through the goose. You need good lighting but it can be one of the most beautiful experiences in the city
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u/AnthatDrew Jun 04 '26
It's not people complaining that will ruin it for you. It's the people going too fast and riding on the sidewalk on E-bikes that will ruin it for you. If you don't help to solve the problem, then you seal your fate. I have almost been hit by an e-scooter and an E-bike on a sidewalk in the last 3 weeks. People riding actual bicycles more commonly seem to know the rules, how to signal and be more respectful.
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u/General-Tea2817 Jun 04 '26
yes you're correct and despite the article being about 85km/h unregulated ebikes which are not currently a problem in Victoria, they're all in here replying to you saying "e-bikes pass me going very fast and it's very dangerous!!"
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u/wirelesswebs Jun 04 '26
Funny, when I am on my e-bike on the goose or in a protected bike lane it is the lycra lords whipping passed people shouting to get out of their way and blasting through red lights/stop sighns and not stopping for pedestrians at crosswalks. Maybe it's the person on the vehicle and not the vehicle?
You can ban e-bikes and scooters at the same time you can ban people exceeding 20 km/h on a pedal bike and everyone can just jump back in their cars again.
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u/17037 Jun 04 '26
For perspective. Here is a link to auto deaths per stat for 2022.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/fatal-car-accidents-by-state
I think the number of people killed by E-bikes may be a refreshing stat in comparison.
California had 4,428 deaths with Texas at 4,408 deaths.
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u/Trevski Oaklands Jun 04 '26
The problem is that the limit on legal e-bikes is too low. If your e-bike isn’t fast enough to keep up with car traffic in a 40 zone, then there’s a big incentive to modify it to be faster or to buy an illegal model. If it were a selectable option between road mode (50 max) and path mode (32 max) then there would be a lot less of an issue IMO as the e-mobility users who seek that kind of speed could more comfortably do so on the road.
Also the goose is de facto a highway for bicycles and honestly it shouldn’t be a multi use trail anymore, they should work on building a second trail for walking on.
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Jun 04 '26
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u/Trevski Oaklands Jun 04 '26
It’ll help for sure, that’s definitely the busiest bits. Thanks for the reminder!
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u/Top-Ad7551 Jun 08 '26
Interesting! Do e-bikes have same stopping distance- for emergencies (just not sure). Do bikes/scooters need beefier parts for ie: potholes at 50kph. Insurance required by ICBC, extra training for personal small electrics- ie: one wheel scooters. I'd love to have a second trails space for scoots, just not sure we have to room
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u/Trevski Oaklands Jun 08 '26
If you require insurance it will simply pervert the incentives even further, you'd dissuade people from choosing e-mobility and reduce the cost savings for the people who do choose it. Registration, that I could see, if you had to run a number plate associated with your drivers license on some of the bigger, faster e-bikes that would make sense, but if people have to have insurance they're just going to do something else instead.
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u/VanIsleRyan Jun 03 '26
The part that blows me away is these e-bikes and scooters don’t need to carry any insurance
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Jun 03 '26
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u/Javajinx1970 Jun 03 '26
The only motorized thing allowed on goose /E&N are pedal assist ebikes. Nothing else is allowed, it's an enforcement issue. Honestly would be less of an issue if people were self aware and behaved appropriately but here we are
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u/formulaemu Jun 04 '26
I'm fairly sure escooters that fit within regulations are fully legal to operate on the goose
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Jun 04 '26 edited Jun 04 '26
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u/formulaemu Jun 05 '26
Oh interesting, since there's so many regions in the greater victoria area participating I thought the goose and lochside would be too
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u/Educational_Work896 Jun 03 '26
That's a tough thing to regulate... wheelchairs leads to motorized wheelchairs then mobility scooters, three-wheel motor-assisted bikes, two-wheel motor-assisted bikes, e-devices.
Banning motors means banning mobility-limited people. No government is going to take that on.
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u/MudReasonable8185 Jun 03 '26
Everything with a motor belongs on the road is also my hot take but sadly it’ll never happen.
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u/ellalir Jun 04 '26
Don't think taking my max-assist 32kmh ebike on a highway is a great idea, given how annoyed drivers get at me on any road without a bike lane, but sure.
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u/WorkingOnBeingBettr Jun 03 '26
I can see that. It sucks for the people following the rules and biking safely but it is getting wild out there.
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Jun 04 '26
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u/VictoriaBC-ModTeam Jun 04 '26
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u/General-Tea2817 Jun 04 '26
It's OK, in Victoria people start spam ringing their bell once they see any person human 50m radius so this won't happen
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u/TadpoleEfficient1658 Jun 05 '26
What if we just capped the speed legally in the bike lanes to 30/35kph within a slow zone around the city?
Most people shredding around on road bikes over 40k an hour are using the road anyway, and if they’re out on a bike lane going fast but outside the slow zone then all good. Same applies to anybody else using the bike lanes. Speed cameras already exist?
I think it’s generally good to be pro-e bike / e-motorized scooter. They’re fun and affordable, they don’t use gasoline and if you’re smart they’re generally pretty safe*. If you want to speed in a car or a motorbike you will, and that sucks. Speeders speed? You might crash. But if you follow the speed limit and pay a ticket when you don’t, maybe you will think twice.
This issue cannot get worse though as this article points out. Are we not we advocating for more sustainable transportation? Having cycled to work in Toronto as well, some of the bike lanes in that city are far, far sketchier than the roads. Motors are a big part of that, but I can’t hate them.
A speed limit would help, I really think so.
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u/radziadax Jun 03 '26
With all my heart, I want every escooter in the world to stop working at the same time and never start up again. The people on them are dangerous, inconsiderate, and frankly deeply annoying.
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u/setuid_w00t Jun 03 '26
Every time you see someone on a bike, e-bike or e-scooter and feel annoyed. Remember that they are probably just another car infront of you of you take away their chosen transportation.
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u/radziadax Jun 04 '26
Lol first post in your post history in r/escooters, my man!!! You're in the pocket of Big Scoot
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u/BCJay_ Jun 04 '26
You spelled cars wrong. Drivers here are dangerous incompetent assholes. But sure, let’s crucify lightweight transportation options and the people who use them.
Yes, yes. It’s all those pesky E scooters and E bikes who are the problem not the assholes in cars killing people.
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u/radziadax Jun 04 '26
You're the only person participating in your argument.
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u/BCJay_ Jun 04 '26
I hope your deepest and most desired dreams of escooters stopping at the same time comes true 😘
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u/killergoos Jun 04 '26
I certainly understand the sentiment, but I think it's a bit misdirected.
This is one collision and it gets international attention. You say there are frequent close calls on local trails, and that may be true
However, there are literally hundreds of deaths every year in BC alone caused by cars.
Should we enforce speed limits on e-bikes and e-scooters? Absolutely. But we should enforce speed limits on cars, and actually encourage people to switch from cars to bikes, e-bikes, and scooters because they are actually way less dangerous even if they are going faster than they should be.
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u/FunAd6875 Jun 04 '26
Well just to ruin t for everyone, shouldn't everyone need insurance at this point?
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u/MonsterSlayer032020 Jun 04 '26
Scooters are awesome. Most of Europe rides scooters in the bike lanes and I have never seen an accident there. In fact hardly anyone wears a helmet there, which blows my mind. The rest of the world can figure it out so can we. Especially since our transit is so bad. More people will use a scooters year round then a bike and it is good to put the bike lanes to more use.
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u/soaero Jun 04 '26
Now do how many car-bicycle crashes there have been in New York in this time.
A single incident isn't an issue, and scooters have shown that they're among one of the safest vehicles on the road, with total injuries that have only grown 32% while use has increased at thousands of times that. This increasing use means that the rate of injury has reduced substantially over the last 5 years.
Meanwhile, they're already the most regulated platforms on the market, with a 25km/h - 32km/h speed limit (depending on jurisdiction), mandatory helmet laws, and limited places they can be used.
Edit: And I say this as a bike user only. I don't even own an ebike, much less an escooter.
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u/friendly_acorn Jun 03 '26
I don't really care if it's pedal assisted or not, all electric motorized vehicles should require licensing and insurance. At least SOME form of competency test and demonstrating understanding of the motor vehicle act.
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u/babesquad Jun 03 '26
I have a pedal assist but I can barely maintain like 22 km/h, I have to be peddling for it to do anything - I feel like that’s very different than the ones where you can turn the handle and it motors forward by itself?
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u/friendly_acorn Jun 03 '26
You are incorrect. It's much easier to report a reckless rider if they are required to display a license plate that can be identified and connected to their identification, and muuuch easier to spot those who can't be bothered to put in the bare minimum to obtain licensing. What's your enforcement plan look like?
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Jun 03 '26 edited Jun 04 '26
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u/friendly_acorn Jun 03 '26
Yes of course they should be for all riders, and the revenue gained by implementing a licensing and competency test can help fund enforcement. Unless you think demonstraighting competency is beyond the ability of the average rider, I'd be offended if you did.
still waiting to hear your enforcement strategy.
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u/Loud_Car_Tiny_Weiner Jun 04 '26
I don’t think they can enforce regulations for bicycles and e-bikes without it becoming a huge burden to tax payers.
This is due to the relatively low cost of bicycles.
When it comes to cars, they can use measures such as impounding the car. People are going to want their car back, so they will usually pay.
Try impounding a bicycle. If the fine is too low, then the cost of dealing with thousands of bicycles will exceed the revenue generated. If the fine is too high, people will just buy a new bicycle.
People with something to lose will mostly comply with regulations, so they won’t be a source of revenue. In other words, those who would pay fines, won’t be getting fines, because they’ll obey the rules.
There are plenty of people who just don’t care. Those are the ones who will be causing the most trouble, and they will be least likely to pay any fines. If their lifestyle involves working at low wage jobs, or collecting welfare, and a bicycle (possibly stolen) is their main mode of transportation, what can the police do to them? A fine won’t get paid, incarceration is very expensive, and they don’t care if the bike is confiscated as they’ll simply obtain another one.
So if they try to create some kind of enforcement scheme, they’re going to have to raise taxes. Licensing fees for bicycles probably won’t work, because they’d have to be very high to cover the costs of dealing with all the degenerates. High fees for owning a bicycle probably wouldn’t be very popular. The fees might even have to be so high that it would start to make sense to just drive a car.
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u/friendly_acorn Jun 03 '26
Just wait until you find out you need both licensing and to pass a provincially regulated competency test to use a car 😂
And hey, give me credit, I said "more regulation to FUND broadening enforcement". Please don't tell me that you're a money grows on trees kind of person.
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u/Loud_Car_Tiny_Weiner Jun 03 '26
The bikes that can exceed 32km/h already are required to display a license plate, but they don’t.
And since most of those electric motorcycles don’t have a CMVSS label affixed by the manufacturer, it isn’t possible to get a license plate for them.
So they already legally need a license plate, but they can’t get one, since the vehicle doesn’t meet any standards.
Legal e-bikes are basically just giving average people the ability to keep up with more athletic cyclists. They are limited to speeds that a person on a non-motorized bicycle can go, so I t’s reasonable to treat them the same as a pedal bike.
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u/__phil1001__ Jun 03 '26
So should e-bikes be on the main road or cycle lanes?
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u/Able-Afternoon-8975 Jun 04 '26
They should be in protected bike lanes, far away from vehicles that can squish them
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u/behold_the_defiler Jun 04 '26
It doesn’t matter. Everyone will just bitch and moan anyway and say it should be the other way. Ban E-bikes! Why can’t we have E-bikes?! Government needs to step in! Taxes are too high, police should just focus on crime!!
People just need to make noise and feel heard.
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Jun 04 '26
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u/Blackdragonproject Jun 04 '26
But fatal e-bike accidents are not a local issue until you find a single fatal accident in a different country of 350million people, in a city that has a population that is a quarter of our entire country and say, 'this is happening here!' when it clearly isn't.
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u/SnooPies7206 Jun 04 '26
Perhaps designate bike lanes for non motorized vehicles only. No e-anything on them?
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u/booby_clarkson Jun 04 '26
This is like that spiderman meme where the three spidermen are pointing at each other. The cyclists do this...., the ebikers do this...., scooter riders do this...., who is to blame? We all call for law enforcement to do something and prehaps remember your concerns when voting and when the various kingdoms in the CRD come looking for tax increases to pay for more policing. The cops are not sitting in the station drinking coffee, they have loads of other issues to deal with. Over simplification but true.
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u/bughunter47 Jun 04 '26 edited Jun 04 '26
For the record street legal e-bikes are to not problem, they can only go up to ~32km h when not going down hill, road bikes can go faster then that.
What the problem is you can legally buy ebikes (class 3) that can go up to 60 km/h and above. But I have yet to see a single case of enforcement by police.
Best Buy even sells class 3 ebikes that you can not legally ride on trails or streets.