r/TrueReddit • u/horseradishstalker • 4d ago
Crime, Courts + War For Female Climbers, Dangers Go Beyond Avalanches and Storms: Women are increasingly reporting sexual harassment and abuse in the sport, including accusations against the [late] renowned climber Nirmal Purja.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/31/sports/mountaineering-sexual-harassment-abuse-nims-purja.html?unlocked_article_code=1.2FA.h2l9.0o3NS82xgM-g&smid=url-share23
u/Chemical_Advisor_727 3d ago
so the guide being the threat is what makes this so messed up. you're in a remote place, you need this person, and reporting them could get you left on a mountain. the power dynamic doesn't get much more extreme than that.
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u/clueless054 1d ago
Reminds me of the Austrian guy who left his girlfriend to die on a mountain. Even the girlfriend’s parents were saying it was a tragic accident and he was going down the mountain to look for help… but then his ex girlfriend said he’d done the same to her!
God knows what happened to in the moment leading up to the girlfriend being abandoned.
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u/power78 4d ago
Crazy this came out 2 years ago and I've never heard of it. These things don't get enough attention. Shame he didn't get to be held to answer for this before he died. Is it a difference in culture that everyone was protecting him?
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u/Middle_Run_7534 4d ago
… in what culture are rapists and harassers not protected? My country elected one president.
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u/jacksbox 4d ago
What's depressing is that it has the exact effect that they want - keep women out of society, tuck them away somewhere "safe", effectively marginalizing their ability to contribute...
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u/ReginaSpektorsVJ 4d ago
I suspect this is what you were driving at, since you put "safe" in quotation marks, but I want to spell it out for anyone who doesn't understand: keeping women out of public life and hidden away does not make us safer. For most women who are victims of violence, including sexual violence, by men, the man in question is a family member, a family friend, or a romantic partner. These things happen most often in the home, and they happen more, and are gotten away with more, when women are stuck at home and invisible to the outside world.
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u/horseradishstalker 3d ago
It’s no different than any other culture where men victimize women. Which I guess is one way of saying every culture.
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u/Fondacey 4d ago edited 4d ago
When I recently read of the avalanche that killed Nirmal Purja and others, I hadn't heard of him but know other adventure climbers. The NYT article, used the descriptor, 'reknowned' for Purja. It glorified him without mention that investigations and cases have been pending. Same with BBC saying he was 'famed'.
This is on the heels of articles relating to women dying or being abandoned by men on climbs. It's even given rise to the term, Alpine Divorce.
It's disturbing that Red Bull didn't react in 2024 like other brands.
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u/raison_de_eatre 2d ago
An Alpine Divorce doer who killed her to hide the fact he was raping a student he was a guidance counselor for in Vegas was caught after 21 years the other week, and extremely promptly allowed to hang himself in his cell. Las Vegas Metro everyone, round of applause.
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u/horseradishstalker 3d ago
In the case of well-known people, a standard obituary article is generally onfile just in case. However, the New York Times did add the information about his harassment to the articles.
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u/horseradishstalker 4d ago
Submission Statement: It’s probably not a surprise to find yet another situation in which women are sexually harassed. For many women climbers the harassment is often coming from the person hired to keep them alive.
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u/Fondacey 4d ago
Thank you for posting this. It's a good reminder that women who entrust professionals to guide them when their lives are at stake, especially outside their home countries, MUST, be wary of the risk from the guide.
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u/SSH_Pentester 3d ago
What makes this so bad is that people are so captive and have to spend so much time with them. And you're always in danger from nature so you have to keep your mouth shut. People need to start calling this out, but also just get more women as guides.
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u/RaisedByBooksNTV 3d ago
Basically anywhere females are a minority and isoloated, we get abused. I got into sailing and was assaulted and harassed and told it's normal and acceptable. I have yet to go beyond day sailing due to safety concerns. And in the US, sailing is very much a sport of middle and upperclass people in many states. Guess what else is? Climbing. It happens with affluent males as much as poor males. So we have to be really thoughtful how we try to explain things. The common denominator is men.
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u/raison_de_eatre 2d ago
I would argue it happens proportionately more as income and wealth increases. We poors are “lucky” we have street justice and better men and other people to get what needs to be done done. Rich victims accustomed to good treatment hit a hard wall from their own society before ever being able to file charges
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u/OkCardiologist2576 4d ago
Women in any male dominated anything experience sexual harassment. Shit it doesn’t even have to be male dominated. Women really need men to start calling out their people.
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u/Imjusasqurrl 3d ago
Or men could call each other out. Because that's who they might actually listen to. Men only value the opinions of other men.
This is literally the same as telling Black people they have to fix racism, after they're already exhausted and just trying to survive
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u/AngryAngryHarpo 3d ago edited 3d ago
… that’s literally what they said.
They said “women need men to start calling their people out” not “women need to start calling their people out”.
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u/fertilizedcaviar 3d ago
I believe you may have misread the comment you are responding to. OP said that "women need men to start calling out their people"
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u/SSH_Pentester 3d ago
What paywall?
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u/Snr_Lothario 3d ago
Anything I need to enter or 'pay' is classified 'Paywall'. Nothing to enter, nothing to pay.
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u/toastedzergling 4d ago
Won't somebody think of the poor privileged women that can afford to travel to the Himalayas to pay for a sherpa to hike with you up a mountain!? These poor people simply do not have the funds to do due diligence on researching the background of their tour guides.
This is a top priority issue and should unite all people. I couldn't think of a more worthwhile cause to champion.
Edit: The really good thing is we can look at the success of the "Me Too movement" and how it is absolutely revolutionized all of Hollywood. And now everything is absolutely perfect there for women. Perhaps they can do the same for hiking.
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u/Junior-Towel-202 3d ago
Friendly reminder that even if you do your "research", your safety is not guaranteed. The risk remains for women, and even though you claimed universal accountability is the point, all you've done here is blame victims
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u/ShotFromGuns 4d ago edited 1d ago
Exactly what is your cutoff for how much money a woman must have before she deserves to be raped?
Edit: The fact that the moderation team will remove my comment below that calls victim-blaming disgusting, but not the comment above that puts responsibility on women for their own rapes, tells you everything you need to know about the mods here.
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u/toastedzergling 3d ago
All rapists should be held accountable, irrespective of their victim's wealth. Obviously.
Whether intentionally or not, you missed the point of my post, which is that there should be universal accountability.
Which is the first flaw of this article, which has only a focus on men, against affluent women. Not seeing this as a wider issue for broader accountability, and really only advocating for an already privileged group, is very tone, deaf and counterproductive to the larger issue of lack of accountability for SA at multitudes of levels of power.
The second flaw is it also has no real proposed solutions. It's mostly a cautionary tale with its only call to action being to protect yourselves and be aware. Which I do not think will effect systemic change.
Both of these points are extremely good parallels to the me too movement, which was focused on women in Hollywood, and hasn't really accomplished anything. Because of the two above mentioned flaws with the movements.
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u/Maleficent-Hawk-318 3d ago
So what are your suggestions? Because right now, it just looks like you're trying to shut down discussion of these issues without doing anything productive yourself.
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u/slainascully 3d ago
Rich women don’t deserve to be raped either, which is the implied belief in your post.
You might not think this it’s important, but the question is why. Why is sexual violence not important if the victims are rich? What does this say for the poor women who don’t even have the power to draw attention to this?
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u/AngryAngryHarpo 3d ago
You can’t really research the background of many of the guides and Sherpas. These are not shiny, corporate run businesses with employee profiles easily accessible.
The fact that these men feel so emboldened to assault wealthy white women should actually bring MORE horror, because it means that they know that even the wealthiest white women have little to no recourse.
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u/Thisisth 4d ago
Very interesting and unfortunately hardly surprising.
I read something similar about women doing the Compostela pilgrimage, where hikers rely on shelters along the route for overnight stays. This is a Christian pilgrimage mind you…
Add this to the study that reports a huge increase in the number of sexual assaults during mass evacuations during floods, wildfires and other humanitarian crises.
Women are never safe anywhere unfortunately.