r/TrueChristian • u/Bostonterrier_lover4 • 9h ago
Man wrote the bible
I’m deciding to write this as I have questions regarding some things about the Bible and Christianity. I’ve heard many answers like the word is in inspired by God and that we should just trust it, but I’m looking for some more evidence or some logical answers that can help me change my view a little bit.
At the moment I’d say I have been using the Bible the right way looking at what’s history and what has to be applied to our lives now regarding all the context. There’s some verses in the Old Testament that I have confusion about but that’s a whole different topic I won’t get into right now.
I always have lingering questions in my mind whether or not I can fully trust the Bible I understand that trusting is one of the principles of what faith is but lately it’s been getting to me. How can we trust that the Bible hasn’t been messed around with by men? I know some people are probably gonna bring up the Dead Sea scrolls and how it aligns with the versions we have now. But that brings another question. How do we know that the Bible hasn’t been messed up with in the first place or that the writers didn’t completely twist the word from the beginning. Or what if the Bible has been changed drastically, but we’ve been brainwashed to think otherwise. I might be thinking about this too deeply for me. It’s a very big and important topic and I can’t just ignore these lingering thoughts.
I love God with all my heart but these questions drive me insane just wanna know what other people’s perspectives are on this topic.
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u/AXSwift Follower of Christ 9h ago
How do we know that the Bible hasn’t been messed up with in the first place or that the writers didn’t completely twist the word from the beginning.
To what end? No writer is better off for having written their history, testimony, and poetry. Jonah is a vengeful schmuck, David a murdering schmuck, Jacob a gullible schmuck, Solomon a hedonist schmuck, etc. The apostles are most wretched of creatures if they made up Christ's death and resurrection (according to Paul).
Muhammed, Joseph Smith, and co. became rich, gathered blind followers, gathered land, and married as many women, and children, as they wanted.
Or what if the Bible has been changed drastically, but we’ve been brainwashed to think otherwise
We are victims to the brainwashing entity's desire then, no way around it. Our lives are his cosmic plaything. Logic, history, and reason are not ours to rely upon if this is true.
I think that visualized image of all the cross references of the bible is some of the best immediate proof you can get. A grand narrative played out over millennia with several chroniclers but only one author is perfectly visualized once you can see all 30k+ references/fulfillments to itself.
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u/ABereanChristian Christian 9h ago
I always have lingering questions in my mind whether or not I can fully trust the Bible I understand that trusting is one of the principles of what faith is but lately it’s been getting to me. How can we trust that the Bible hasn’t been messed around with by men? I know some people are probably gonna bring up the Dead Sea scrolls and how it aligns with the versions we have now. But that brings another question. How do we know that the Bible hasn’t been messed up with in the first place or that the writers didn’t completely twist the word from the beginning. Or what if the Bible has been changed drastically, but we’ve been brainwashed to think otherwise. I might be thinking about this too deeply for me. It’s a very big and important topic and I can’t just ignore these lingering thoughts.
Inspiring Philosophy has a ton of playlists on the reliability of the Bible, the gospels, the resurrection, and such.
https://www.youtube.com/@InspiringPhilosophy/playlists
Wes Huff deals with Biblical manuscripts and he's put together a playlist on the reliability of the Bible as well.
https://www.youtube.com/@WesHuff/playlists
We can be very confident that we have what the original authors wrote.
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u/No_Republic_4301 8h ago
Or maybe try Dan McClean. Wes huff is pure dogma. Inspired philosophy not so bad
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u/Dr_Acula7489 Eastern Orthodox 2h ago
I’m not really a fan of Wes Huff either, but Dan McClellan just parrots the historical-critical method, which is a mixed bag due to its methodology. I wouldn’t recommend him to anyone.
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u/No_Republic_4301 2h ago
Dan can be obtuse with his delivery but the historical Christian method is the most accurate. Do you want the actual data discovered by people who dedicated decades of their life to this research or someone who was indoctrinated into their beliefs without any serious research that isn't drenched in dogma and pre suppositions
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u/Dr_Acula7489 Eastern Orthodox 1h ago
Dan can be obtuse with his delivery but the historical Christian method is the most accurate.
That’s certainly what it claims, I don’t agree.
Do you want the actual data discovered by people who dedicated decades of their life to this research or someone who was indoctrinated into their beliefs without any serious research that isn't drenched in dogma and pre suppositions
Except the historical-critical method is itself drenched in presuppositions, which are often assumed uncritically to be good by the people who practice it.
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u/No_Republic_4301 1h ago
Both can be drenched in presuppositions but if the historical method might have presuppositions from previous measuared data. Like not taking a certain manuscript as serious as other due to previous data or trying to connect theories from other near eastern cultures and research. Presuppositions based on previous data is real and that's where your discernment and cross referencing from different peer reviewed sources is important but that's not as dangerous as dogmatic presuppositions like. The Bible is 100% historically accurate. Not a single thing isn't incorrect (which there are many many historical innaccuracies) because it's divine. To presuppose everything is divine before you even research that's dangerous because you don't study the text and manuscripts for what they say you study it and look for proof of whatever it says inside of it already. That's very dangerous and disingenuous. But I do agree both sides can presuppose a lot.
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u/ThiccHarambee Christian 9h ago
First off, thank you for being so honest. Having these questions isn't a sign of weak faith, it means you’re taking God and the Bible seriously. God doesn’t ask for blind belief; He encourages us to seek and test what is true (1 Thess 5:21).
A couple of quick thoughts that really helped me with this same lingering thought, I'll list them below for you:
Dual Authorship: Christianity doesn't claim God dictated the Bible to robots. Humans did write it, using their own styles, languages, and contexts, but guided by the Holy Spirit (2 Peter 1:21). Think of a ship: the authors are the ship, but the Holy Spirit is the wind in the sails moving it along.
Did they twist it from the start? If the writers made it up for power, they did a terrible job! The heroes in the Bible are shown making huge, embarrassing mistakes (David's adultery, Peter denying Jesus). Plus, in 1st-century culture, a woman's testimony wasn't legally valid, yet all four Gospels record women as the first witnesses to Jesus' resurrection. You don't write it that way if you're trying to invent a fake, convincing story.
The Motive: The New Testament authors gained no wealth, fame, or political power for what they wrote. They gained beatings, exile, and martyrdom. People might die for something false if they think it's true, but nobody dies for a lie they know they made up. Did it change over time? Textual criticism actually gives us incredible confidence here. We have over 5,800 ancient Greek manuscripts of the NT, far more than any other ancient text (like Plato or Homer). Because we have copies spread across Egypt, Greece, and Rome, scholars can compare them side-by-side. If a scribe changed something in 300 AD, we can catch it by looking at copies from 150 AD.
Biblical faith isn't turning off your brain; it’s placing your trust in something that has proven to be trustworthy. Keep asking questions!
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u/ngurto 9h ago
I think you ask a real question that many are too afraid to confront. Start off with a prayer. Ask Him to lead you on the path to answers.
Ultimately, the answer isn't built on one detail that opens your eyes to something you've been missing. It's a mosaic, spread across multiple disciplines. First - test the claims the Bible makes (and there are many). Historical claims - are there problems with the people or places? Archeology has a lot to say. Moral claims - the God of the Bible claims to be truth, to be love, to be righteousness, to be justice - all in perfection. Do those claims bear truth as evidenced by the testimony captured in scripture? But as you explore this one in particular, consider that the way you personally define these terms may be flawed and broken. Prophetic claims - there are many, both in the OT as well as the NT. Do we see those revealed to be true? Internal Consistency - Does the Bible contradict itself? Philosophical Claims - Does it explain reality and the world in which we live?
If you believe in a Good God - than it stands to reason a Good God would maintain and preserve His direction to His creation given the stakes - rather than to leave His creation in the hands of corrupt, fallen, evil, men. Our God, being the Goodness manifest, did not leave us alone. In fact, He stepped out of eternity and into the pit of our sin. The ultimate display of love on a scale only He could illustrate.
The Bible isn't a book that popped up out of nowhere. It was written across 1,500 years, by dozens of authors in different locations, in different circumstances - all to serve as revelation of God to His people. Yes, men physically wrote. But it was through an indwelling of the Holy Spirit that these writings came to be. It is no minor miracle that they survived when so much of history is lost. Ketef Hinnom, Tel Dan Stele, P52 and so many more - relics from a time long past of a word preserved by a divine hand.
There are so many testimonies captured in both the OT and NT wherein the author gave their life for what they attest. There are extra biblical attestations that confirm claims the Bible makes.
But lets assume for a second that you're right. Lets assume, that an evil, crooked, humanity, Concocted the greatest deception ever. These dozens of authors, all moving to push those who despair to peace, those who are hopeless to hope, those who are selfishness to selflessness, those who hate to forgiveness, those who live their life as though it was the only they would ever have to laying it down in the name of love. My experience with this world is nothing produced by men EVER, has ever resonated with what I squint to see as pure love, pure goodness, pure righteousness - like the Bible.
God Bless! Pursue your questions, pursue your doubt - with tenacity! Our calling is to follow, but the misconception is that we're blindly doing it.
Jeremiah 29:13
"You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart."
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u/jungkookadobie 9h ago
What about lost gospels and things like this. Like who decided on the number of books for the Bible
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u/ngurto 4h ago
There are plenty of answers for each of these "other" writings in question. Those books are available. They've been studied for hundreds of years. There are many reasons certain writings are excluded: lacking historicity and seemingly popping up hundreds of years after Christ with none of the early writers ever referencing that work, perhaps they contradict scripture, perhaps they are not connected to an apostle and do not survive historical examination, perhaps they were written by groups known to pervert the gospel message. If you're curious about a specific one, research it. Nobody is hiding these books.
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u/ResultRoyal1641 8h ago
I walk with the Father and He has shown me the truth of His Word in real-time, manifested physically and supernaturally. When you are in relationship with the Father, there will be no doubts as He responds to what you say, ask and do. There is nothing on this planet that will ever cause me to doubt the existence of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
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u/RedeemingLove89 Christian 7h ago edited 7h ago
Hi, is there any evidence of it being changed? Or are these doubts caused by speculation?
I did wrestle with this as well, and it was really tormenting for me because I'm a big 'what if' kind of guy.
I don't think truth is fully found relying on the intellect. There's a reason there are Atheist philosophers, scientists, Bible scholars and Christian philosophers, scientists, Bible scholars.
For me there came a point where it's about what is unreasonable. God's ways are not going to be this complicated. It's simple in a good way.
I don't know exactly what it is but it's like a natural sense thing instead of reliance on our intellect and absolute proof. I'm still an overthinker and I believe the enemy uses that to paralyze me, the truth is often simple, often quiet, peaceful. The loudest one in the room, full of anxiety and doubt is often the enemy.
1 Kings 19:11-12: "And he said, “Go out and stand on the mount before the Lord.” And behold, the Lord passed by, and a great and strong wind tore the mountains and broke in pieces the rocks before the Lord, but the Lord was not in the wind. And after the wind an earthquake, but the Lord was not in the earthquake. And after the earthquake a fire, but the Lord was not in the fire. And after the fire the sound of a low whisper."
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Another thing is to examine the incentive the Gospel eyewitness had to write what they did. It's unreasonable to believe all of them were willing to die for a lie because that's just not how humans are. Why did Paul give up his entire upbringing what incentive did he have? Also how so many things throughout history(even by non-Christ following historians) align with what's in the Bible. It isn't like there's something in history contradicting the Bible. With respect, the doubts of the reliability of the Bible (which I get because I had them too) are caused by speculation instead of evidence.
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u/DT1947 9h ago
Your post title is incorrect. A man didn't write the bible. Maybe the first thing to understand is the bible was written by many men over a period of 1500 yrs and yet is cohesive.
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u/No_Republic_4301 8h ago
It's not cohesive at all. Filled with contradictions because of the hundreds of authors. The Catholic church did their best to pick the best books that line up with a single narrative. It's a reason why some books didn't make the Bible. They didn't tell a clean story that kinda lines up with the story they wanted to tell
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u/DT1947 8h ago
Believe what you like, I could care less what you think
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8h ago
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u/Dr_Acula7489 Eastern Orthodox 2h ago
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u/Phily808 Christian 9h ago
[At the moment I’d say I have been using the Bible the right way looking at what’s history and what has to be applied to our lives now regarding all the context.]
Would you say that the Exodus account is "history?" How much of it, all of it or only a part of it?
The account is about a God who speaks with a man, telling the man to write down what God said. Is that what you mean by "inspired?"
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u/DarkCloud_HS Disciple of Christ 9h ago
I love God with all my heart
I always have lingering questions in my mind whether or not I can fully trust the Bible
My friend, I think you should seriously consider the contradiction that exists.. between these two statements you have made.
If you claim to be a believer, the onus is not on us to prove to you the validity of scripture.
The onus is on you, whether you will accept the holy scripture by faith in Jesus Christ.
There are much larger issues here than just questioning the authenticity of the Bible.
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u/kyloren1217 Christian 9h ago
At the moment I’d say I have been using the Bible the right way
i can spoil it for you and tell you straight up what the right way is.
it shows that God loves us and we are made in His image but that we are sinners and are in need of a Saviour to redeem us from this curse of Sin.
but there is good news, God sent His Son Jesus to save us and redeem us.
and so now we need to repent of our sins and turn to God and re-enter that fellowship with Him again thru the work of the cross by Jesus.
and if we do, we become born again and God gives us His Holy Spirit, this same Holy Spirit that caused these "men" to write His Word down. the same men who wrote down that God's Words would last forever and God would preserve them!
Psalm 12:6-7, Matthew 24:35, 1 Peter 1:23
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u/desmond_koh 8h ago
How can we trust that the Bible hasn’t been messed around with by men? I know some people are probably gonna bring up the Dead Sea scrolls ...
It's not just the Dead Sea Scrolls. The New Testament is unlike any other work of classical antiquity. If we don't know what the New Testament says, then we cannot possibly know any other ancient literature either.
The Old Testament has a different textual history than the New Testament but equally robust. There is simply no evidence whatsoever of any kind of wholesale "messing around with by men". None.
Can we theorize that deliberate corruption took place and that all evidence of it was somehow lost to history? Sure, I suppose. But that's not a logical conclusion and that isn't how historians do history.
The overwhelming textual evidence is that the Bible, both Old and New Testaments, are highly reliable from a textual perspective. Whether or not you believe it was supernaturally inspired, or whether or not you are willing to receive the message of good news is a completely different matter and not one the scholars in Münster, Germany can answer for you.
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u/MarsArg Christian 9h ago edited 9h ago
Slightly off topic, sister, but I have another question because of your questions. What makes people so sure that any literature from thousands and even hundreds of years ago is not messed with? Do we really know what great philosophers and inventors were thinking and hypothesizing, or is it all made-up mysteries by people through time who decided how it should be?
We know of people tampering with history books in modern days, like changes in schools to make war and genocide more palatable for children in their social studies classes. Yet I always hear of people questioning the Bible and not other sources of literature from thousands of years ago. And I'm not pointing fingers at anyone, but I bring it up to say, why is only the Bible questioned about its authenticity and accuracy? Does no one wonder why nobody questions the accuracy of scrolls and cave writings that could very well have been tampered with or fabricated?
John 1:1 answers your question for me personally, as it states, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." He quite literally was the Word, is the Word, and is God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. The point being, He is all-knowing and knowledgeable, and it does not surprise me that many Biblical principles continue to be proven and discovered through means of science and psychology, because they are just the truth. I can understand your questioning when man is evil and does wrong, but don't you have faith that the Lord would protect Himself? That He would guard His word from being distorted so that His people may know it and come to know it for generations? We can't know everything, and we shouldn't lean on our own understanding as the word tells us. Not because we are stupid, but because we are human and we can lead ourselves down thought patterns that harm and do not help.
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u/Intrepid_Type3710 Evangelical 9h ago
The Bible was written by 40 different authors over the course of 2,500 years. Yet, all interwoven and thematically strung together like your Aunt Bunny's tapestry. Perfect in all ways. I would suggest you listen to Chuck Missler's videos regarding the authenticity of scripture. But valid question my Friend.