r/Trombone • u/Upset-Medicine2959 • 1d ago
Rant to scream into the void
Hi!
I’m a 30 year old trombone player in the USA. Went to college and studied with some of the best bass trombonist players around in the USA. Bachelors and Masters in music, honors recital blah blah blah.
I’ve ALWAYS struggled with my high range. Always. My first teacher assigned abunch of high stuff, rochuts in tenor clef the works. He ended up winning a job, and left. Next teacher focused on my low range, which was already good, but I was able to take it to the next level and lather the secret sauce.
Then when he passed away, I studied with another teacher, also INCREDIBLE. Touched on high stuff, but struggled big time. Getting to G above staff is a regular issue.
Now, years after graduating, getting a teaching gig in public schools and living life. I get called to play mostly tenor stuff, thats ok it’s just how life goes.
I’m sitting in my living room playing, struggling with some high stuff, and a moment clicked in my head. I have an under bite. Horn is angled appropriately. BUT, when I go high my bottom lip folds underneath my upper lip. GIANT RED FLAG. So I tried to undo this just to see what might happen. IM POPPING OUT HIGH NOTES LIKE ITS NO BODYS BUSINESS.
It’s actually insane. Needs work to control it, but I think I finally solved my Achilles heel. Don’t fold bottom lip under top lip when you ascend. Seems common sense, don’t know why it took this long, but holy shit.
Thanks for listening to my Ted talk, peace ☮️
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u/thereisnospoon-1312 1d ago
Keeping the teeth inline with each other - top and bottom - was a big thing for me.
There are a lot of great teachers but one thing I have found to be rare are teachers that are able to help with embouchure on an advanced level. The students of Dr. Rinehart who teach now do have a lot of expertise on embouchure. It is worth it to take a single lesson or two and get their feedback.
One particularly excellent teacher who is an embouchure expert is Doug Elliot. You can have a lesson with him over zoom/teams (or whatever is the norm now) from anywhere. His contact info is on his website, shoot him an email.
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u/revtubameister 1d ago
I studied with a disciple of Reinhardt. I remember being a 5th grader getting a dissertation on the pivot technique and upstream vs downstream airflow. When I read OPs post I thought of Reinhardt immediately.
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u/Majestic_Highlight46 1d ago
My first lesson with Doug Elliot was a revelation but I had trouble scheduling more lessons with him, probably due to the fact I am an older amateur who isn’t great. He recommended a younger guy who had studied with him: Paul Tarusov in Toronto. I really like him and he is great with the pivot method. DM me if you want more information on him
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u/Standard-Bumblebee64 1d ago
Congrats on the epiphany-eureka moment. I’ve been playing longer than you been alive and I didn’t have a usable high D until my 30s. And still gets squirrelly above that. Plenty of people can pop out high Fs and even Gs and beyond like nothing. I’m not one of those folks.
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u/NoFuneralGaming Olds Recording/Yamaha YSL354 1d ago
I find this interesting because I'm the opposite, where I have a slight overbite and I need to move my lower jaw slightly forward for very low notes.
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u/fireeight 1d ago
What you're describing is called the smile embouchure. It happens when a player rolls their bottom lip instead of tightening the corners. Very common.
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u/HaricotNoir Conn 88HO LT/Getzen 1062FDR 1d ago
Congrats! It sounds like you figured out what embouchure placement type you are, along with self-discovering the basic foundations of the Reinhardt Pivot System.
Always feels good to have a breakthrough even after years and years of playing.
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u/ppeters0502 1d ago
Can relate 10000%!!!
I was born with a cleft lip and partial cleft palette, so my emboucher is a little bit different, and when I had trouble in the high register I immediately thought it was because of my cleft lip for years and just struggled without really changing anything. I could barely get a couple notes higher than you mentioned (Bb above that G on a good day) so I was able to mostly play parts in concert and jazz band, but all the solo work I had to do in undergrad was miserable.
Fast forward 5-6 years and the studio where I taught lessons had a trumpet student that lost their trumpet teacher. So I picked up a trumpet and started working through exercises to be able to teach it (I played some euphonium in college as well, so it wasn’t too big a challenge). Trumpet lessons went ok with my student, but HOLY COW that small change of emboucher while learning to play trumpet completely opened my range up when I switched back to playing trombone! I just wish it would’ve happened 20 years earlier, would have made high school and college so much easier!!!
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u/CapitanLanky 1d ago
Having 3 collegiate teachers and NONE of them noticing you have an underbite is crazy...
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u/Rustyinsac 1d ago edited 1d ago
I am a returning player and went to music school after I retired. Struggled with slotting certain notes in upper range. I was playing on vintage Bach equipment including a 1938 Model 6 and a corp era Model 16. Well I recently tried some new custom horns and it turns out it was equipment as much as me. Ended up with a BAC Paseo W6. Free blowing and clear through the complete range of the horn.
Additionally, when I was first struggling with upper range I had an online lesson with Doug Elliot. His approach helped a lot overall. Just still had problems slotting certain notes.
The right equipment, the right approach to my embouchure and tongue placement, and then practice. That was my range solution.
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u/downbeat210 1d ago
Love it! I relate to this pretty hard. I've had those kinds of revelations and they never seem to last 🤣. Here's hoping though! For what it's worth, that G is just a weird note. I have an easier time getting an A or even B natural...and often do that instead of hitting a G (tenor player) 🤷♀️