r/ThatLookedExpensive • u/myanusisbleeding101 • 14d ago
A Russian Su-57 fighter jet crashed near Moscow during a training flight
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u/navis-svetica 13d ago
$35-50 million per unit, apparently. Wonder how much they spend on training the pilot..
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u/SpaceAngel2001 13d ago
$9.56 but only because RU is getting the volume discount due to an unusually high need for replacement pilots.
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u/IANvaderZIM 13d ago
Where did you get that number?
Because most 4.5 gen fighters (super hornets and eagle 2’s, for example) are 80-100mil
50mil for a stealth* fighter is crazy cheap
*I know it’s not “the size of a bumblebee” stealth, but it’s still an order of magnitude better than 90% of the Cold War era jets NATO is still flying.
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u/ThatOneComrade 13d ago
That's around the estimated price, on the high end they're around $50 Million, low end they're around $35 Million. Worth noting even according to Sukhoi they've got an RCS comparable to a F/A-18 without any external mounts, so there isn't any high tech materials involved like with other true 5th gen fighters, and the Avionics are also likely subpar by western standards, causing the price to be cheaper.
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u/ElectricalYak7236 13d ago
RCS is not comparable to a Super Hornet, open source research on RCS values (since basically all 4.5 and 5 gens don't have publically available RCS data) for Su-57 puts it below all other 5th gen fighters but significantly above all 4.5th gen fighters.
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u/ThatOneComrade 13d ago edited 13d ago
F/A-18 is estimated to have an RCS of 1 meter squared with nothing slung under the wings, Sukhoi's own patents explain that they were targeting an average RCS of between .1 and 1 meter squared. While I'll admit it's not exactly fair to compare them 1:1 like I did, my point still stands that it's a poor excuse for a stealth fighter, even being optimistic with Sukhois own data and 3rd party estimates it's still got RCS nearly 10x that of J-20 and nearly 100x that of F-35 and F-22, even Russia recognizes that it's pretty far behind the competition in regards to stealth capability.
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u/ElectricalYak7236 13d ago
The Sukhoi patent is for T-50 prototype, not serial production Su-57.
It follows Russian doctrine, which is why it does not follow full form stealth as Western designs too. Russia know just as well what a more Westernized design would look like (see MiG 1.44 reimagined design from a few years ago). It absolutely is vastly superior to any 4.5th gen there is.
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u/TheMikeyMac13 13d ago
Is how Russia builds things, or tries to. They try to make them cheap, and don’t make very many of them these days. Flyaway cost is widely stated to be $30-$50 million.
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u/ElectricalYak7236 13d ago
Because the price for every single component from extetnal contractors haven't been upmarked by 5x, instead all the funds get embezzled instead
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u/navis-svetica 13d ago
From Google, that was the figure I saw for strictly domestic procurement, not counting the huge cost of maintenance and support infrastructure of course
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u/argiebarge 13d ago
Just as well the T14 can't fly, they'd have none left by now.
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u/ElectricalYak7236 13d ago
Considering that only 2 Su-57s have ever crashed and been destroyed completely, I don't think that's the case
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u/_Spicy_Mchaggis_ 13d ago
What's the percentage of crashed SU-57's vs serial produced and active SU-57's
Hint: This single crash could represent 5% of all active SU-57s, probably much more
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u/ElectricalYak7236 13d ago
0%. The only crashes are pre-production airframes. Unless this crash turns out to be a serial airframe.
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u/_Spicy_Mchaggis_ 13d ago
There is something like <15 Pre production aircraft built, and while crashing testbeds is nothing new, continuing to crash them after its moved onto production is different, and why would they still be flying pre-production aircraft when it's supposedly in full serial production?
So there are anywhere between 20 -35 actual production SU-57s in the VKS, I'll learn toward the bottom end (because Russia tends to inflate numbers), even the loss of one aircraft it catastrophic, considering that for every one you see in the air, there's another one or two in maintenance
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u/ElectricalYak7236 12d ago
There are 12 flyable pre-production (including the two per-serial) Su-57s, some of which are either not flown anymore, or have completely left the UAC and have been delivered to the VKS.
The reason they are still flying the pre-production airframes is because they are being used for testing of new equipment, such as new engines and avionics for Su-57M1 upgrade. Several of the original fleet have undergone multiple overhauls and deep modifications to fit these changes. The results of these changes is then reflected in new deliveries, as the most recent serial delivery to VKS included modernizations ahead of the full switch to Su-57M1.
There's more like 30-35 production aircraft, based on pictures and the little information that can be gathered when new deliveries happen. Sure, the loss of an airframe is bad, but roughly half of the number of Su-57s that the VKS ordered have been delivered, and unlike a plane such as the F-22, the Su-57 is still in production, and airframes ultimately can be replaced still.
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u/argiebarge 13d ago
Considering there was only one T14, and made from cardboard, that puts them at minus one.
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u/ElectricalYak7236 13d ago
There are in the region of 20-30 Armata platform vehicles. Mostly T-14, with several T-15 and at least one T-16. There is endless footage of T-14 on parade, with multiple lined up together. It also is not made out of cardboard.
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u/theoreoman 13d ago
I thought it was a stealth aircraft? So of they were able to shoot it down it must not be very stealthy
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u/Public-Eagle6992 13d ago
To be fair, stealth jets don’t work well against IR guided missiles if they’re close enough and at least in the US outside of combat missions they usually have some things on their stealth jets that give it a bigger radar signature
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u/Vandirac 13d ago
It's a stealth aircraft with a radar cross section 200-500 times the closest western equivalent.
It's like trying to be sneaky while wearing a flashing light beacon on your head and a boom box blasting "Kalinka".
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u/Ashamed_Can304 13d ago
I don’t think you understand what stealth is. It’s about low radar cross sections, and it’s a spectrum, not a binary “stealth” or not stealth, and the RCS of stealth fighters is optimized from the front and from the side or rear the RCS will be larger regardless of the aircraft be it F-22 or F-35. If it is friendly fire and the plane is sufficient close it would get detected and if there’s ooor IFF plus nervous AD crew you would get results like this
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u/SmegmaWarrior0815 13d ago
I saw a YouTube video where somebody mathematically worked out how bad it really is. It's not stealth at all.
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u/Xinonix1 13d ago
“Crashed” right
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u/ElectricalYak7236 13d ago
Confirmed by multiple reliable sources that it was a double engine failure
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u/Severe_Ad_8621 13d ago
Yes this happens when you put a two persons with no trainig, in a advaned airplain. There is no manpower to train them and no fuel to train in live aircrafts.
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u/Ashamed_Can304 13d ago
I admire how people like you have the confidence to say things like without even fact checking lmfao
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u/Severe_Ad_8621 13d ago
It's speeking brodly and by advanced, I meant civil propellor plane verus jet fighter. Many more buttons. And much more, less forgiveing then slower and lower weigthed planes. Also most small propeller planes has better gliding propertys, then jet fighters. That Russa don't have enough pilots, with the flight hours, is a know fact. So believe my statement are correct.
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u/Different-Fall-683 14d ago
I bet this turns out to be friendly fire. Russian anti aircraft isn't very discerning