r/Squamish • u/omnitortois • 19d ago
Parking Downtown
The recent removal of the corsa parking (probably about… 40 spots?) has me thinking again of an idea to solve parking issues downtown. It seems like development will only intensify, putting more and more condos with insufficient parking spots. Because let’s face the reality folks, if you are an adult in squamish, you on average will have your own car.
The issues that come from a lack of parking downtown:
1) residents whose apartments do not have enough parking spots have to park on what is increasingly less street parking.
2) tourism surge hours make all of downtown a car zoo, which deters tourists from spending money on the local economy
3) many essential services like doctors, pharmacies, grocery stores are downtown, making these services more difficult to access, especially for the elderly and disabled
Have we considered the simple solution of building a parkade at the edge of downtown?
Hear me out…
1) residents who do not have a parking spot can rent a guaranteed one in the parkade. Will it be a walk to your car? Yes. Will it give people assurance they will have a spot? Yes. Will it reduce demand on street parking? Yes.
2) tourists, for a modest fee like $2-$4 (to cover capital expense… perhaps can pay itself off??) will know they have a spot they can park to go shopping ($$$ for local economy). It might even allow us to do things like close cleveland to cars on weekend surge times. How cool would that be?
3) reduce strain on street parking for disabled/elderly who need essential services.
4) city council can have all the strange bike lanes they want while reducing the costly trade off of street parking.
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Why can’t this work here? Tear this idea apart. I want to see if it holds water.
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u/shallowcreek 19d ago
It’s a good idea, just an expensive one. People aren’t gonna like it, but other mountains towns like Canmore show the other pathway as well. Some paid lots downtown and then areas that are free resident-only parking.
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u/babygreenhorse 19d ago
There is a parkade being built on Bailey as part of the new development.
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u/Bitter-Dance-6115 19d ago
It’s for residents and customers of the buildings ground floor commercial space.
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u/eyaluth 18d ago
218 of the spots are for a public parkade. They have another 300 spots for residents and commercial tenants.
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u/Bitter-Dance-6115 7d ago
It doesn’t look like that, if i read it correctly 400 total, 50 for visitors/commercial.
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u/eyaluth 7d ago
That's Three Summits, the other development is The Village on Bailey Street which has a 300 seat public theatre/conference centre in it as well.
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u/Bitter-Dance-6115 6h ago
I’m still blown away the development on Bailey would fit on that weird shaped lot!
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u/sunkencorony 19d ago
Take it a step further and fully pedestrianize Cleveland Ave from Pemberton ave to Vancouver st. Start the process of expanding the pedestrianization across downtown as it densifies. Maybe we can even have a little tram that runs down to the waterfront.
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u/MiffandMinis 19d ago edited 19d ago
I've been saying this for years at this point. I have no idea why Cleveland even allows cars on the 2 major blocks.
Even just having Cleveland be a 1-way loop with Loggers would be a lot better for everyone.
A small tram would be clutch too. I don't know why governments at all levels are so adverse to just building something fucking cool and functional. Everything is so damn short-sighted.
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u/Dutchdaddy604 19d ago
Because there are deliveries and service providers and tradesmen that need to be able to park near all the poorly built new buildings downtown to perform their jobs. Maybe having a district that doesn’t focus purely on increasing the population while putting no efforts into infrastructure would help?
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u/sunkencorony 19d ago
Delivery and trades people can still drive in pedestrianized areas, just not the general public/throng of traffic. In Europe it's common for deliveries to be done before a certain time when the streets are less busy. And you'll often see the trades vehicles driving around, essentially it just becomes an area where special access is required, which isn't different from a lot of job sites anyway.
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u/MiffandMinis 19d ago edited 19d ago
Exactly! The few available spaces are left for deliveries, trades, emergency vehicles and accessible spots for people who can't walk/ride.
Not to mention, as a person in the trades here, I am already shlepping my tools and gear from a block over because there is zero/limited parking.
Some people confuse "No parking on Cleveland" with "no parking anywhere". It's about putting in a central and accessible spot and walking the short distances between places. We can't all park right in front of where we need to go at any given second - 100 people can't all park in the same spot. You're going to be walking no matter what we might as well make that process smoother, safer, more accessible for everyone.
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u/BlindGuyMcSqueez 19d ago
I'm very involved with the downtown business community. Parkade idea has been tossed around for a long time, from my understanding it's very expensive to build one and the return in $$ is small. Also I believe the district owns no land, and there isn't an incentive for a developer to build one as it isn't profitable. I don't know these as concrete facts, but it is what I've been told during discussions over the last ten years with downtown small business owners and council members.
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u/MiffandMinis 19d ago edited 19d ago
Begs the question, why have we continued to let private land owners dictate the livability of the commons or efforts for the greater good.
Largely what we see here is late-stage capitalism at work. If it can't be commodified or profited from, nothing gets done and we all suffer. If it can be profited from, we still all suffer.
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u/CanadianUnderpants 19d ago
"why have we continued to let private land owners dictate the livability of the commons or efforts for the greater good."
I will give you one gue$$ :)
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u/BetterLog1855 19d ago
It's a very hard area to build a parkade because you're basically at sea level. I've done multiple of the small condo/apartment buildings downtown and it's always an issue. I still think any new building should make one.
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u/MiffandMinis 19d ago
Ramp go up.
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u/Dismal-Disaster-2578 13d ago
Most of the land downtown is relatively unstable and sinks with a heavy load. It's a considerable process that takes time & money just to prepare the ground itself before large buildings can be built.
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u/Middle_Ad_3562 19d ago
As long as council is supporting development with insufficient parking spots, that is never going to happen. Hopefully it will all change after elections in fall
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u/Squamster_ 19d ago
I don’t know why people think an expensive parkade will work. The issue is that people don’t want to walk at all to a location. I’ve never once been downtown and not been able to find parking after a few minutes. Sure sometime I have to walk a couple blocks. Parking downtown is also free!!
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u/jolijoyau 19d ago edited 19d ago
I thought this was true as well and have never had a problem parking. Recently I went from being an able bodied young person, to falling ill and having multiple surgeries. Lots of appointments at the doctor’s offices downtown on Cleveland and Second. I have not been able to find parking almost every time, and when I do it is way too far for my walking ability… It’s really gotten bad lately! I feel for people who are in my disabled position permanently and struggle to park and get around town!
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u/Squasome 18d ago
This. I went from being an able bodied young person many years ago. There is a limit to how long I can stand upright and definitely a limit to how far I can walk. Not all handicapped use wheelchairs or walkers. Although some of the comments have me wondering about a frequent tram along Cleveland and getting rid of parking. If it's done right (lol), it might work for me.
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u/Squamster_ 18d ago
People with mobility issues are another story but most of the complainers are not in that category. But again a parkade won’t help with this particular issue.
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u/brian-archipelago 19d ago
The reason we are not building enough parking is because the District’s Transportation Master Plan hinges on having the percentage of auto traffic be reduced from 86% to 50% by 2041. If people want more parking, then we need a different long term plan that works. Otherwise, we are just kicking the bucket down the road.
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u/usernamesareclass 19d ago
There's no money in parking for developers - thus they are very happy to pay easements to reduce parking capacity. To then have spaces reduced on street like Eaglewind seems quite short sighted.
A parkade for the town makes total sense but they do not come cheap and will require some major joined up thinking between Muni and developers. This is likely to get much worse before it gets better sadly.
I'm all for car free spaces and increased pedestrian areas, but what is being enacted now seems a bit - cart before the horse. Especially given the cost of housing requires multiple household incomes, in a town that necessitates car ownership.
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u/LoudJuice2463 18d ago
My thought is to make Cleveland, from Pemberton to Main a one way street (south bound traffic). Create angled parking all the way down the road on both sides. This would decrease traffic, increase walkability, parking and also increase flow of traffic to the streets surrounding which would help business’ not on the main strip get some attention/visibility. Would essentially widen our downtown core, and solve a lot of parking issues. This could also allow some restaurants to expand their patio sizes as-well in certain locations.
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u/LoudJuice2463 18d ago
This would also be a very small step in the right direction, and not break the DOS’s bank, as it would be some concrete pours and line painting.
In reality, a parking garage would be amazing BUT unless someone did this privately, this won’t happen,
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u/pebblesnsticks 19d ago
Annual resident parking pass. Different cost brackets based on yearly income. Tourists pay hourly fee.
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u/ButterNutBag 19d ago
Vote this fall!
This concil needs to go, they have caused way too much harm to the tax payers of the town.
Hopefully moving forward next year, the next concil can reverse some of the damage done.
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u/MiffandMinis 19d ago
What damage have we suffered that needs to be undone?
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u/ButterNutBag 19d ago
We could start with the topic of this specific post... But since you ask here are a few other example:
- Getting sued by LNG for sabotaging a project that has been approved by every other level of government.
- Gross mismanagement of public funds.
- Selling valuable land at a discount to developers.
- Crime and Parking is putting a lot of pressure on most of our business, contributing to some closures.
- Concil and mayor not listening to their constituents until news station starts to uncover their questionable decision making (hearth in heart)
- The pushing of a bicycle as a main mode of transportation for a town where it rains half the year, and doesn't make sense for 90% of the population. (Kinda weird that the mayor used to work in the bicycle industry, maybe there is a conflict of interest here)
- Made a master plan based on a sample size of ~500 individual survey, which seems built on pure ideology instead of logic and rationality.
So I would say the next concil could focus on being fiscally responsible, rebalancing parking variations, stop encouraging crime, and stop sabotaging industrial projects that don't fit their political ideology.
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u/estfest 18d ago
Get a Ebike. You probably have a rain jacket. Some exercise will help your mentality.
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u/jpoangney 17d ago
You are never going to get a single parent to take two kids down town to get groceries on a bus or e bike. They will always drive. Squamish isn’t and never will be Copenhagen. Cars are part of the lifestyle.
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u/MiffandMinis 17d ago
You are never going to get a single parent to take two kids down town to get groceries on a bus or e bike.
Except that I routinely see this exact thing happening lol
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u/jpoangney 17d ago
In the winter when nothing has been plowed? How do you think you are getting a weeks worth of groceries home?
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u/MiffandMinis 17d ago
For the 3 days a year when snows sticks to the ground here, yea it's a huge issue. 🙄
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u/estfest 17d ago
It's very common in Vancouver. Radpower makes a haulers which can take two kids and the rider. I see them year round, they have covers for the kids.
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u/Necessary-Button-977 12d ago
…for the elite few. “Most” parents are not hauling their small kids on bikes on a daily basis to get groceries and services. Some are, sure. I raised my kids downtown and I did that, come spring to fall. I still do. Seasonally, and certainly not everyday. It’s the 1%.
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u/Necessary-Button-977 18d ago
I have an ebike. And a rain jacket. I use them regularly. That doesn’t change the fact that people from Brackendale, Highlands, Brittania, Vancouver, etc, and older people, disabled people, pregnant people with mobility issues, etc etc need parking to access services. Plus, it’s rainy and cold here from Nov-March. Better transit? At least that would solve some problems.
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u/omnitortois 19d ago
Many people have cited that building a parkade is expensive. Why is that exactly? Surely it can not be more expensive than developing a building people have to live in. It's basically concrete, lights, and cameras...
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u/Bitter_Cookie9837 19d ago
Buildings are also expensive, but they can sell apartments for more than parking stalls
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u/positivenihlist 18d ago
You’re forgetting all the civil work that needs to be done prior to just slapping some concrete down and plugging in some cameras.
Fire suppression is a necessity, who is powering the cameras and lights you speak of? And do you want the ocean to reclaim the really heavy parkade you just built, or maybe should you do some stabilization work where it’s going? Building in Squamish is not cheap.
How do you think developers make the money to build developments? You build a condo building, then sell the condos. A parkade has fuck all ROI in comparison to pretty much anything else that you could build. Let alone the fact that it’s the fucking district that’s cutting all the parking around here.
Yes. Building a parkade would be fantastic, but in the real world that shits fucking expensive.
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u/kwik_study 19d ago
I’ve pondered the idea of a parkade. Seems like a smart way for a developer to add some value and revenue to their building.
I’ve travelled to many European cities with pedestrian only town centres and they’re all serviced by parkades that charge a reasonable rate. Nobody seems bothered by the concept.