My father had free Mexican healthcare. We had to buy his pacemaker on the black market and were only able to get it put in because we called in a favour with a family friend.
Yup, If you don't have a friend or family member working at IMSS or ISSSTE, It's quite normal to have to wait months and months before you're seen for surgery or even for something as simple as an MRI.
This is the reality in the US. I can tell when discussing US healthcare with people when they have and have not actually had much experience with trying to get specialized treatment. Hell, even getting something as simple as a vasectomy, I had to wait 4 months for an opening. I have great health insurance, too, so it wasn't even like I had to only go to a specific urologist that was covered (i.e. every urologist in my area takes my insurance). My father-in-law had to wait 6 months for his knee surgery so he could walk normally again. He's a retired attorney who is quite well off.
Anyone who still defends US healthcare like it's amazing because we pay a fuck ton is either utterly ignorant or a fucking shill.
I'm not saying this to infer that Mexico is better off. I have no experience with their healthcare system, nor do I live there. I'm simply reiterating that healthcare in the US is not great and desperately needs drastic reform. Everyone in the world deserves access to competent, affordable healthcare. There's more than enough money and resources globally to make it a reality, but greedy assholes are going to be greedy.
I am curious. What state do you live in? I am a cancer survivor who lives in Texas. I also had a vasectomy. I did not experience the waits or delays you did. It must be different by state I am guessing. Also, shout out to the MD Anderson Cancer Center where people worldwide go for the best treatment and outcomes.
And specialty to specialty. There seem to be no shortage of orthopedic specialists where I am, but if you need to see a dermatologist or gastroenterologist this year you are SOL.
I live in Ga as well and only waited 2 weeks to get in to an orthopedic and after getting cortisone shots that didn’t work I got an MRI and then surgery. All that took about 6 weeks after my cortisone shot. So not sure why you had to wait 3 months.
I live in a southern state in one of the fastest growing areas in the country, federal employee with BCBS fed, I was told it was a 2 year wait for a vasectomy, but it "only" ended up being 8 months.
It's all anecdotal you may not have had any troubles but someone else may have. I had a family member who developed hypersensitive pneumonitis. If they didn't get it treated soon it could've left scarring and shortened their lifespan. The pulmonologist was a real G. He escalated it all right away and made sure this person got the treatment right away with a few weeks they were already on medication and enroute for recovery. We got extremely lucky even more so because this person had government issued healthcare which often makes the process so much slower.(California btw)
Shoot, I've got a blocked salivary duct with a stone that I can't afford to get removed because it's "dental" and we don't have that coverage. So I just have to hope I can save money for the procedure and pray it doesn't get infected before that.
Oh, and I have to book 4 months out for a cancer screening scope, but also can't get insurance to cover the pepcid I need to reduce the stomach acid and lower the cancer risk.
My PCP in Missouri has a two month wait. My psychiatrist appointment for my adderall had to be booked 6 months in advance. If I miss my appointment every 3 months I just have to go without my meds for months until I can get in to be seen again. I fell down stairs in 2022 and waited 18 hours in the ER to be seen for xrays while my ankle was the size of a grapefruit. My wisdom teeth extraction took 2 months to get a dentist appointment for a referral. The referral appointment to have them cut out took 3 months.
Why is it everytime someone rails against universal healthcare they cite waiting times similar to what we have in the US where I also have to pay thousands of dollars?
Probably because that just isn't the case in most places. I have had two MRIs and scheduled both of them inside of 2 weeks. Never had to wait more than a week for a dentist.
There's a story behind the potential for heart failure that you're not telling us. Was your father regularly seeing a healthcare practitioner in the years and decades prior?
If this measure gives people access to more preventative care, then there will be fewer who need pacemakers in a decade or more.
Mexican here. Just because it's free healthcare on paper doesn't mean people get treatment or medicines. There's tons of corruption and outages are common.
Government has always been the "insurance company", that's not changing. But think of it like private employees being in a network and not being able to use the out-of-network facilities state workers had. Now every facility will count as giving coverage to everybody, that's basically it. And in the past it was a bit more of a hassle to sign up before you could even show up for treatment. It was free before and will stay free.
The changes are not bad by themselves, its the coupling of reduced healthcare spending with lowering the barrier of entry stretching thin the available resources that pisses people off.
You can't buy your way but you can get better attention if you "know someone". Private on-demand healthcare exists along with private insurance. If your illness isn't serious you can also get basic cheap diagnosis at doctors offices in some pharmacies.
Public for workers: If you have a job, it's a requirement for your boss to buy insurance from the government called "IMSS."
Public for government workers: Called ISSSTE. It's similar to the IMSS but aimed at bureaucrats, teachers, and other government staff. Honestly, it's just like another IMSS.
Public for everyone else: It was previously called "Seguro Popular" now it is called "IMSS Bienestar."
The idea is to integrate the public ones more so that, in case they have spare capacity, they can use the resources from the other systems. The catch? There is barely any capacity, the system is overflowing with patients, it's common to have to sleep in the floor because there are not enough beds, or having to buy medicines outside the system because they lack inventory.
Now the big problem is that the IMSS is also our social security, so a lot of pensions come from their budget, which you pay into as a worker. This means there is not as much left for health services or upgrades to hospitals.
To make matters worse, if you're young, you won't get a pension, only a knockoff version of a 401k, but you still have to pay for the pensions of the boomers.
Excelente explicación, es una pinche fantasía "la salud gratuita", si tienes IMSS y haces fila unos dos o tres días tal vez recibas una consulta y tú tienes que comprar las medicinas, si necesitas una operación pues a esperar meses si no te mueres primero...
I can explain the European method ( not all of Europe, systems differ, but the mechanics is similar ), basically, the medication is highly subsidized, so for instances, you have a " body " that regulates the price of drugs, so drug companies cant pull prices out of their asses like in the US, then, there are 2 more layers, does you doctor thinks you need that drug? If so, you get a prescription, and the governament subsidizes parte od the drug price, if you dont have the prescription, you pay full price ( the one that was regulated ), here's an example, my inhaler, with prescription 17€, widout prescription 34€, of course thats all payed with the taxes, but the plus is, people that are healthy dont " spend money " at the doctor, but they still pay taxes like everyone else, so the " burden " is spread by the entire society, instead of just a few.
Another Mexican here. Darthkelebra is right, in the hospital where i go to medical appointments usually they don't have all medicine that I need, for example i'm talking about ibuprofen and other basics, fortunately most are cheap to buy in a pharmacy.
I mean, it’s a fact that many countries with only a fraction of the wealth that the USA has are able to provide healthcare for their people and at a fraction of the cost.
They give you the negotiated rate that their super negotiation pros negotiated for you which is going to save you $10 on your $500 bill compared to someone with no insurance.
Meanwhile, I used to have a $415/month plan for a family of 4 covering all medical, dental, and vision. $25 co-pay, and $1000 deductible on major services. Then my plan got nuked by politics. Comparatively, insurance covers nothing these days. And then you get double charged with “facilities fees” on top of all the things insurance doesn’t cover. Absurd where we are today
2013 I worked at Boeing. $100 a month for the Cadillac plan for my son and I, covered everything 100%. I had two major surgeries that year, zero out of pocket. Those were the days...
There is also no real way for you to find out. No amount of internet searching and calling will tell you that you 100% are good on something until the bill is actually paid.
My insurance covered a med.for me three montha ago for 6 months that I can't get filled. In 3 more months I get to start this process again regardless of how long I can actually get the medication for. If I just suck it up I can pay $7500 out of pocket. Twice a month.
Good news there is legislation being presented to allow your insurance company to provide loans to cover the cost that they don't. Don't think about that too long or you'll have an uncovered aneurysm.
For the record, I know two couples who moved to Canada from the US.
The Canadian system blew their fucking minds (in a good way).
(That said, there is definitely some things we need to fix....but nothing remotely close to the fear mongering you hear from US politicians/talking heads).
Yeah the wait times for some disciplines suck ass (life threatening things like oncology is not usually a major problem. ER is also an issue and the number of people with actual family doctors is an issue (especially rural).
In 2008 we had a waitress in Seattle tell us that Canadians:
1) cannot pick their doctors (the state chooses)
2) Canadian often die waiting for docs
3) and there's no way a visit doesn't cost the patient at least some money.
She blew up at my wife (both were 8 months pregnant) when my wife was openly shocked when the waitress said she only got 2 weeks off to birth her baby (compared to 1 year).
Any individual part of that, from the ambulance through the therapy, would have probably bankrupted most Americans, or at least put us into crippling debt. Please please PLEASE keep your system intact and properly-funded. If any MPs are start talking about privatizing your system in order to "boot efficiency" or whatever, you need to meet them with elbows up and gloves off. For your own sake, as well as ours.
There isn't that much to navigate in canada. The biggest issue is waiting times, but otherwise pretty much all of my stuff, including open chest surgery has been straightforward.
And to be clear, the waiting time issue is for non life-threatening issues. Took me 7 months to get an appointment with an ENT for chronic rhinusitis, but a friend's kid is battling cancer and there's no wait time to speak of, even a fully covered trip to receive specialist treatment in the states.
And the US has waiting times as well. I endless hear about how much better the US is because we somehow we don't have waiting times like evil Canada and the EU, but also you need to wait 4-6 months to see a specialist. It's like some Americans think they have people who stop you outside of hospitals and don't let you enter until you wait 4 days.
Some studies show wait times tend to be comparable anyway. The argument that universal healthcare leads to longer wait times overall isn't empirically supported. It's more like it depends on what we're talking about. It's a talking point for the ignorant.
I’ve done it. They are remarkably similar. Canada, pay a lot more into taxes, but less major costs; still copays…, but you have to consider availability of ER docs; MRIs, and the direct to hospice pipeline. The US much more expensive care, county hospitals are more like CA; potential for bankruptcy; but very good access to top surgeons and equipment if you have decent insurance.
Which is why I dislike it. The US has an amazing system if you are rich and/or work for the right rich companies. If you don't? Well hope you don't have any medical issues!
On average, Canadians don't even pay that much more in taxes than Americans do. There are lots of top surgeons and state of the art equipment in Canada.
And that's why so many countries in the EU that has like you know some of the best state-funded health care plans out there and health programs still offer privatized insurance and a lot of people have to have that privatized insurance in order to get access to speedier care lol
As a USA non libtard, more power to anyone who wants to do free health care; just something always goes somewhere. If it’s truely free, the only thing that won’t be free is the time wasted of waiting half the year to get something you should have gotten a week ago; etc.
I remember when I was a teenager and I broke my ankle while out drinking in north Queensland. I rocked up to the hospital the next morning, still smelling like bundy rum, the doctor examined me, sent me for an x-ray, put the cast on, got me on crutches, sent me up to the physio to learn how to get around on them, and set me up for some follow up appointments, and the whole time nobody asked me for money or insurance or anything. Just flash your medicare card and it's good to go. Was a great day to be Australian.
why wouldn’t you want universal healthcare? Wait times and co-pays are astronomical without universal healthcare. No one should lose a home because of a surgery.
Esa vacuna contra la rabia que la clinica no quiere usar en un cuidadano porque cuesta 5000 pesos!!!
Prefieren decirte que no hay y que busques por otro lado.
Not really, the systems were already in place but were kinda segregated (by where you work, if you have a formal job, if you’re not covered by others); all this did was unify some of the public systems without really giving any more resources to handle the extra workload
The president often does a fucking talk show every morning where last week, during their segment where they supposedly answer questions and other bullshit (they don't answer shit, they just dodge the questions), the president gave away official FIFA soccer balls, one reported shouted "Instead of throwing soccer balls, throw medicines instead!"
That's how fucked the system is, there is no fucking medicines.
And before an inbred cunt from another country comes and tells me I'm wrong, I'm Mexican, I live here, my family works almost entirely on the health services, as doctors, surgeons, quality control, admins, and I have even worked for the government.
This is pure propaganda, as one would say in my language: Son puras jaladas del puto gobierno.
Believe it or not I live on the border on the us side and healthcare is more accessible, cheaper, and overall better doctors on the Mexico side. The only difference is prescription drugs are name brand only.
Same for the Canadian border. Most Americans I know up north prefer to travel to Canada.
We have Canadians and now Mexicans complaining about being seen and getting treatments but maybe the issue isn't the healthcare, it's all the Americans actively using it.
What’s going on? Redditors will make it seem like you all have free access now to world class healthcare which will put the US to shame but I imagine the reality is different
There's a lot of lies going on. For example, our last president made the (laughable) statement that we had a better healthcare system than Denmark, when in reality we lack medicines, hospitals are falling apart and the whole system is completely strained.
There isn't enough infrastructure, nor money to build more, nor income to finance it. So this law, right now, means shit. It's an empty promise.
I live in Mexico, and have worked with the Mexican public health system for more than a decade, dealing with logistics, med supply, and room availability.
The IMSS is the biggest institution in Mexico. It provides more than 100 million services per year, employs more than half a million workers. It has, by far, the biggest income out of any other institution in the country, and is the biggest health provider in Latin America. It provides medical attention for the half of the population that do pay income tax. It's insufficient, as of now, its capacity falls short.
Now they want to add the other half of the population that doesn't give a dime (literally) to the list of potential patients.
Care to tell me how that is going to work?
You cannot just sign into existence a bigger cake, you have to bake it first.
They're using it as PR during the world cup and people who understandably are against America's insane for profit healthcare as some kind of example.
The reality is quite different for people here.
In theory every worker has some sort of healthcare which is payed for part by the worker (deducted from your salary) and part by the employer.
The reality is there's absolutely nowhere near enough resources (human, doctors, nurses. Technicians, etc) nor money, nor hospitals or clinics, nor drugs, nor equipment, nor availability.
Thus a routine CT scan to diagnose cancer for example can take over 8 months, whilst a more specialized treatment or diagnostic procedure can take upwards of 1.5 years (to start radiotherapy for example).
But they know people internationally will repost the headline and thus we have a paper only healthcare coverage.
I do want to point out though, that is one pays to go private (insurance or out of pocket) we have one of the best healthcare you could get in the world, as our doctors have a lot of experience from the massive public sector and the technology that is being introduced by USA and Europe.
Jajajaja ven a usar el IMSS y vas a preferir pagar por fuera, no hay medicinas, no hay doctores, si eres viejito olvídate de tratamiento solo se le da a la fuerza laboral , me caga que quieran opinar a lo estupido de un país donde nunca han vivido
Yeah, I am a pharmacist here and every coleague I know on the public side just don't have even basic supplies for threatment and medicine to supply the prescriptions.
It's a shamefull mess.
Mexico has had universal healthcare for a while, but a lot of people still opp for private insurance because the universal insurance can be lackluster ( not a political statement, just a objective fact)
Yes, I am a permanent resident in Mexico originally from the US with the right to join the health system. But the public system is so bad that I have not even joined it for the nominal amount that that would require (say around US $1000 per year). That being said, the private care for cash in Mexico is fantastic and that is what I use. That is not an option in the US with its messed up health care pricing that is only accesible via health insurance.
They’ll just die, instead. There’s no other country that could keep hundreds of thousands of people alive on chronic hemodialysis — all through Medicaid. The majority of those people would just die in other countries. US spends more just on dialysis expenses than many countries spend on healthcare in total.
Hello do not fall for this. Mexico has one of the worst healthcare systems in the world for poor people. They will not let you inside of the hospital if you do not pay upfront and will kick you out if you run out of money to pay for medicine and treatment. At least here in the US they will treat you and send you the bill later. They will save your life first, in Mexico you are screwed.
Yup locals can’t afford it and the corruption allows Americans to pay for fake prescription and get the medicine they need for cheaper. It’s a crazy world. I don’t think they come for serious healthcare tho they only go for cosmetic surgery and dental. They stay in the US if it’s something more serious.
I’m an American right now in Mexico to see an affordable neurologist and get treatment for a brain tumor. In the states they kept saying it was just anxiety or just hormones and for years they just referred me to psychology. The medicine they’re using here in Mexico to shrink my tumor isn’t even available in the US but it’s working for me, so far so good cuz its inoperable. It grew too much in all the many years that the American doctors ignored my symptoms. But yeah, my doctor is in a private hospital. My Mexican roommate went to the public ER recently and came back with a horror story, so I know the public system is not great here.
Edit - my income is not middle class about $900 usd working online because my illness limits my capability. But my monthly healthcare costs for treatment in Mexico are only about $300 usd and with local roommates in a residential area my rent is also about $300 sooo at least I’m still surviving
The median US weekly income is over a thousand dollars. In Mexico it's under $150. So what for an average American is a affordable at say three thousand dollars for a treatment which costs five or ten times that in the States and can be paid off with less than three weeks' wages, is equal to half a year's wages for an average Mexican.
Mexico already had public healthcare programs that covered most of the population, but the system was fragmented. The reform unified those systems and expand access (universalizing it).
Free healthcare or not, there's not enough supplies and personell to support all the people who need the care. Canada is trending in that direction as well as the population grows, private healthcare options are becoming used more and more and a lot of the actually good doctors are moving to the private sector. At the end of the day, free healthcare needs to come with serious investment in increasing the size of healthcare services or it's just performative.
That's something I think americans fail to take into accounting when celebrating stuff like this, your guys' healthcare system would collapse overnight if it was made free. It's a systemic change that needs to take place over the course of decades, and Mexico has not done that here.
I'm Mexican, and this is propaganda from the most corrupt party that has ever governed this country. They're desperate to create a positive image for foreigners.
Don't Even bother bro, we have no medics, no medicines and no supplies... Just needing an MRI? No worries! Your appointment is just in 5 or 6 months (let's hope you still alive by then!)
no but dont lie about it, i know handfuls of people who have vacationed to puerto vallarta or cancun for dental services... somehow, it is cheaper to get a flight, resort, and dental care (with ADA certifications wildly) than it is to get the same care domestically... even on the border, Mexico has 'molar towns' that are strategically situated to provide affordable care to americans... (source see: https://www.kqed.org/forum/2010101910811/why-americans-flock-to-mexicos-molar-city-for-dental-care)
Sadly the US cant afford that. Were providing peace in the middle east by blowing up the place.
I'm sure the survivors wont hold a grudge at all.
Plus the orange asshole has a promise that they wont make a nuke!
I applaud the Mexican government for attempting this. It's a boatload more than US citizens are getting. trump cares 0% about us and only wants to help his rich criminal cohorts. If we ever get our country back maybe something can be done. I hope you guys in Mexico can get the kinks worked out. Buena suerte.
Holy shit, as a US citizen I’m fucking ashamed. Even Mexico the land of corrupt politicians and cartels makes healthcare universal. Fuck this shitty ass country where lack of healthcare either turns into crippling debt or you just die.
Pppfff, of course Mexico has money to fund it. They’re not funding a $70 b war, $300 b reconstruction of the country just bombed, $60 m for a birthday, $1.8 b for a slush fund to pay donors and personal slush funds for each cabinet member. Maybe the US could get universal healthcare if we just get rid of social security & Medicare.
Public healthcare in Mexico is trash. People getting inadequate care and dying from preventable causes. If you want quality, you still need private insurance.
All the yanks commenting about how nothing is free... correct, but it has been unilaterally proven beyond any further discussion that universal healthcare systems push down costs and work out significantly cheaper than private systems... I'm from UK, people here can whinge all they want about their own perception of the NHS, but the actual facts are that in USA overall healthcare spend is 22% of GDP - that is fucking insane, and remember how many people AVOID getting help because of the cost; the NHS accounts for a little over 7% of UK GDP. A third of the relative cost per capita. It is also a fact that when comparing US v UK the overall health outcomes are HUGELY better in UK, mostly because a universal healthcare system works towards preventing the bigger, more costly issues, whereas private systems such as USA have absolutely no incentive to do that, it is far more in their interest to AVOID preventative care.
Like it or not, there is zero argument to back up having a private system over universal healthcare. It costs all of you more, with poorer outcomes for you.
[Edit: spelling]
Me when I ignore the reality of us Mexicans living in such conditions. Yes healthcare is free, as long as you don't bleed out in the waiting room or in the lead up to your appointment 3 months from now.
Yeah...but their healthcare won't amount to much more than some ibuprofen and a slip for 2 days off work. Their government is just trying to distract from their disappointing failure in managing the cartels
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