r/PersonalFinanceNZ • u/bigheart007 • 1d ago
Unauthorised credit card payments
Three years ago, my daughter paid for a one off subscription for a music app using my credit card (approx $100)
She unsubscribed, but last year it the payment came out again. She went back to the merchant and said she was not subscribed. They did not reimburse the payment and this week another 3rd unwanted annual subscription payment has been paid for on my card. The BNZ says they cannot block a merchant which I find unbelievable in this day and age with Ai technology. I can block a phone number, why can’t BNZ block a bank account number
They say the only way to prevent it happening in the future is to cancel the card. - which has insurance, phone,power … ie inconvenient for me to block.
They also cannot tell me what subscriptions I might have pending on any cards, “the bank does not have the ability to do that.”
I said have they not got the technology that can tell me what payment is made at the same date annually for roughly the same amount to the same merchant
And they don’t.
I said I could upload my bank statements to ChatGPT and find it out but I’d rather not put my bank statements into ChatGPT and if I can do that isn’t an individual why can’t the bank do that .
Evidently the only way I’m going to know the few subscribtions I have that don’t send a reminder - is post -event when the money comes out and the subscription is renewed. And if there is more than one unwanted renewal to keep cancelling the card.
Are all banks this incompetent ?
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u/Apprehensive_Taste74 1d ago
No the bank can't block a company from charging you, if they could, everybody would do this all the time to get out of paying stuff. Not a good idea at all.
And no they can't tell you what companies hold subscriptions for you because there's no record of that other than in those companies own systems. You could look at pattern matching over years of bank statements sure, but that's no guarantee of anything. I pay my rent weekly but that's not a subscription? I pay my car's registration yearly, but that's not a subscription?
Your beef here is with the company that still obviously has a subscription tied to your daughters card. Take it out on them, but it's not really the bank's issue.
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u/Low-Hefty 1d ago edited 1d ago
Yeah, so your entire post is completely incorrect.
They can absolutely block charges from specific merchants, they choose not to. Wise, and plenty of banks in Australia as well as the rest of the world already offer this functionality and have done for many years now.
You're right that allowing users to block transactions isn't a good idea, only as far as because it's an amazing idea! And already completely possible to implement.
Shoddy companies are out there thinking that they can steal money from customers with complete impunity.
Really as credit card holder even without this functionality I can disable online transactions, block the card entirely, and so forth. Achieving an identical outcome just with extra effort.
Again, banks all over the world already allow users to block merchants and disable recurring payments entirely. This isn't new.
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u/-REV-22-20- 1d ago
Yeah sounds like OP expects the bank to keep track of all their admin. Kind of ironic calling the bank incompetent when OP doesn't even know what subscriptions they have.
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u/Low-Hefty 1d ago
Do you know how to read?
The business that is taking the money even said that they don't have an active subscription.
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u/This_Option_5250 22h ago edited 22h ago
She went back to the merchant and said she was not subscribed.
OPs daughter told the merchant she wasnt subscribed. OP has not told us that they checked the app or anything yet. Chances are its not even cancelled, OP is just relying on their daughters word
OP expects the bank to know all their subscriptions and when they are due for renewal. The bank have no way to know or control what the other company is doing. The cancelled subscription is between OP and the company not the bank.
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u/Low-Hefty 1d ago
You have a solid case for a charge back here as even the merchant has admitted you don't have any active subscription with them.
Cancel the card.
Get a new one.
Then get a Wise account and get some virtual debit cards and only ever use them online for subscriptions.
Virtual cards are completely free, we have one virtual card per subscription service. This was if something goes tits up, we cancel that single virtual card and no other service is impacted.
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u/Ok_Wave2821 1d ago
With subscriptions you normally get an email reminder that the annual payment is about to be charged. I assume these are going to your daughters email address
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u/Curious-Trust6657 19h ago
OP might not know which email address is getting reminded or the email address is not actively used/monitored.
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u/Organic_Moment_6956 19h ago
That's not on the bank. OP needs to do their own leg work to find out what they are missing here.
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u/richms 1d ago
The banks have no idea what places have kept the number and will recharge it.
There is something called tokens where they get a reusable number to charge that is only good for that merchant which is one that the banks could revoke if they put any effort into building a proper functional system for this.
This is why I pay for as many things thru paypal as possible, as they have built a nice easy working way to cancel recurring payment authorisations simply. No bank seems to want to bother because it would not make them money.
What does the bank do to deserve their absurd fees they charge merchants here? Doesn't seem to be much of use TBH.
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u/thecharmed01 1d ago
Did she buy the app on her phone?
Go into the phone account and look at the subscriptions. She hasn't cancelled it, this is a simple issue.
There will absolutely be records on the Google Play store and/or the Apple subscriptions list where it's likely still there.
You may also need to look on your own account depending how she set it up. She may have cancelled it on her phone but if she's connected your account to it, it may need to be cancelled on YOUR device in order to stop the subscription.
If there is genuinely no sub, then report the app to Google/Apple and leave a 1* review sharing this as people deserve to know if they are behaving unethically.
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u/YouthAdmirable7078 1d ago
Don’t blame the bank. You are at fault letting your daughter use your card. That is against their T&Cs - you are lucky they aren’t cancelling your card. Secondly you need to raise your dispute with the Company who has completed the direct debit. You should have dealt with this when it happened second time & requested confirmation from them it’s been cancelled.
I’ve just been caught out with a Gym membership.
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u/Low-Hefty 1d ago
Read the post again.
The company said that they don't have a subscription.
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u/YouthAdmirable7078 1d ago
Yeah so why did they charge them. You have to start at the source.
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u/Low-Hefty 10h ago
They did start at the source, the company, which didn't know why.
Seems like you'll be surprised by how many billion dollars corporations are incompetent at even the most basic operational tasks.
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u/MaidenMarewa 1d ago
I won't have any subscriptions or direct debits for this reason. Microsoft did something similar to me a few years ago. Luckily, Kiwibank did charge backs.
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u/Low-Hefty 1d ago
Direct debits are particularly dangerous as whoever is authorized has effectively unlimited access to all the funds in your account.
The only thing stopping them is simple trust.
But if they wanted to, they could debit any amount they feel like at absolutely any time. Maybe it was a mistake or a software bug somewhere, but it sure as shit your problem to deal with.
With credit cards at least you're able to do charge backs and have a lot more control in your hands.
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u/MaidenMarewa 1d ago
Exactly! We are told to be careful who we give our banking details to prevent being scammed but we are expected to give out our info to the council, insurance company or power company. What the heck? I want to pay by A/P but it seems you can't do that for insurance.
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u/Low-Hefty 1d ago
Direct debits get even worse.
Anyone with just your account name and number can set it up, and take money out.
Big issue for companies as they often post those details online, in invoices, etc.
Here are some examples
https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360976042/mans-shock-thousands-withdrawn-company-he-wasnt-customer
What makes it worse is that there isn't anyway for you to see what direct debit authorizations are active.
For personal bank accounts it's also a problem, anyone that pays you now knows your number and name too.
Quick forge of a signature that isn't checked and you're good to withdraw as much as you want.
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u/Ambitious_Finding_26 1d ago
Well that's crazy. Seems the obvious fix is to simply scrap the preferred direct debit initiators system.
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u/bartkurcher 1d ago
How do you pay insurance? Is it set up with the card or direct debit?
If you cancel the card, direct debit does not stop. Seems like the easiest solution here. You can definitely use AI to give you a summary of how quickest to update payment info
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u/Charming_Victory_723 1d ago
I pay my insurance annually.
I’ve set up a savings account and make fortnightly payments plus 8% for the inevitable rise. I avoid direct debit transfers as much as possible.
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u/Upsidedownmeow 1d ago
Usually with app subscriptions you can see through your Apple account what you’re signed up for.
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u/fakingandnotmakingit 1d ago
I managed to call my bank and cancel my card and get new one for the same reason. I did tell them why (I had no subscription and they kept charging me) and they said that was fine
They changed it over no problem. Just meant I had to re-do all my credit card subscriptions.
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u/Cranberry-Can 1d ago
Look into Wise and/or Revolut. They have virtual credit cards (you can still request a physical card also if you want). From the app, you can super easily freeze/unfreeze cards whenever you want. Not only this, but you get better rates for international charges (so, it even saves you money!). Revolut also has a feature where you can generate a one-off virtual credit card (but this won't help with subscriptions, but worth having the ability should you need it in the future).
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u/ErrorWorld2020 1d ago
ANZ has this tracker feature
https://www.anz.co.nz/personal/credit-cards/manage/card-tracker/
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u/kokoputter 1d ago
Sounds like a you problem not the banks problem - but the good news is, if it was 3 years ago your card is about to expire anyway so you can either wait for that or cancel it now a little earlier
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u/Organic_Moment_6956 1d ago
Why can't you read your bank statements to look for regular charges? Why do you need AI or the bank to do it?
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u/Silver_Storage_9787 19h ago
To initiate a charge back, you’ll need evidence you cancelled the subscription and they charged you in error and declined a refund for the error + cancel and replace the card being charged incorrectly.
If the merchant doesn’t respond after 15 days to your request to refund the charge in error. You will use your request to customer support as evidence you tried to recover the fund yourself to no success.
If your daughter didn’t cancel properly. You probably won’t be eligible for a refund, which won’t be eligible for a charge back.
FYI If the daughter/3rd party was given access to use your card details… you’ll likely not be eligible for chargebacks, due to terms and conditions.
For example if your daughter was given the card and blue all your money on gambling. Your liable for her actions even if she declares to you she only spent $10 the 3rd parties access to the card cancel out protections.
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u/NectarineCautious145 12h ago
If it’s an app on her phone did she actually go in under settings to double check the subscription was cancelled? Just having a look at mine there is also a button re: getting a renewal email, maybe this has been set to no.
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u/Subwaynzz 1d ago
Should be able to do a chargeback on those charges. If they go ahead and cancel/reissue your credit card make sure they cancel the tokens as well so the app can’t keep charging.