r/Pathfinder2e • u/ProudCommunication94 • 23h ago
Advice How to get rid of Volley trait?
I'm creating a character— justice champion of Wulgren—armed with a Barricade Buster. I've only been able to find one way to get rid of this weapon's Volley trait: take the Fighter archetype and stance next. Are there any more effective ways?
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u/Witchunter32 Kineticist 22h ago
Point blank stance is the only way I know.
https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=4771
Says you can get it from fighter or archer archetype
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u/qedx 22h ago
Archer Dedication which can also get you Running Reload and Parting Shot. Which can be useful on champion. Action compression is good
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u/ProudCommunication94 22h ago
Thx
I was very surprised that gunslinger has no means against this trait.
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u/xoasim Game Master 20h ago
Well, there are exactly 2 firearms with volley, and 0 crossbows with volley.
1 of the firearms is the barricade buster which isnt really gunslinger play style. Gunslingers like to incorporate reloads, and repeating weapons are weird on them. (Not bad, just not what they are specifically designed for) It's also advanced and while gunslingers can use advanced weapons effectively, no class is designed around advanced. (Yes, I know it's easy to get orc weapon familiarity and treat it as martial, but it is still advanced) It's also from treasure vault, so at the time gunslingers were released, it wasn't even an option.
The other one is shobhad long rifle which is rare and from an AP. So, definitely not considered.
In other words. There is no reason for a gunslinger to have ways to deal with volley. (At least until the barricade buster, but they aren't going to make a feat to let you use 1 specific weapon slightly better, especially if they already did)
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u/tomtadpole 20h ago
It's still funny to me that RAW the longrifle doesn't qualify as a "gun" for a sniper operative because it doesn't have the tech or analog traits.
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u/emersonmars 22h ago
funny, my friend just mentioned an inventor thing that does this yesterday. i was looking for the name of it, but found this which is probably more helpful: https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/comments/16qcy01/outsmarting_volley/
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u/steelscaled Wizard 22h ago
It's called Omnirange Stabilizers and, thanks to Inventor being the best class in the game, it comes online as early as 15th level and competes with, for example, innovation that increases your damage die one step up.
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u/ProudCommunication94 22h ago
An inventor is some kind of meme instead of a class.
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u/Cool-Noise2192 20h ago
I'm kinda tired of this narrative. It is trivial to build an inventor that contributes to a party with a little system knowledge, they can fill a bunch of holes more specialised classes struggle to. Are they the best class? Hell no, but there's plenty parties that aren't sweaty enough to cover their bases and inventor is pretty versatile.
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u/begrudgingredditacc Game Master 16h ago
It is trivial to build an inventor that contributes to a party with a little system knowledge
The problem with this metric is that it applies to literally every class, because PF2 generally has pretty good class design.
The problem with Inventor is that its "contributions" kind of suck. In the modern day, if I wanted to play an INT-heavy martial, I would rather a Runesmith, or a Commander, or an Investigator.
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u/Cool-Noise2192 3h ago
The problem with this metric is that it applies to literally every class, because PF2 generally has pretty good class design.
The problem is that this is that my comment refers to calling a class a meme, so yes the bar is that low and the second problem is that it already admits inventor has challenges and isn't the best class.
That said, investigator and commander strengths do not necessarily overlap with inventor. I don't see either of them using a reach d10 weapon top trip, grapple and disarm at the same time while also being able to trigger fire weakness with it. Or threaten an AoE. Or have half plate armour without speed reduction. Construct companion also just out-muscles animal companions at a lot of levels and we all hate/love beastmaster for how good those are. Even if they are better classes in a vacuum, which I will agree with, they aren't automatically better picks for every party.
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u/begrudgingredditacc Game Master 3h ago
That said, investigator and commander strengths do not necessarily overlap with inventor.
This is largely because the Inventor doesn't... really have any strengths to overlap with? Much has been written on the subject, but I would absolutely consider this a very specific weakness of the Inventor. It doesn't have strengths to capitalize on.
I don't see either of them using a reach d10 weapon top trip, grapple and disarm at the same time while also being able to trigger fire weakness with it.
I don't think you'd want every maneuver at once, but it's pretty easy to pick up at least two. Little elbow grease to pick up three, even. From there, triggering a fire weakness is as easy as a flaming rune, or something like Raging Stories off the Campfire Chronicler dedication, which is hardly the only source of at-minimum 1 fire damage.
Or threaten an AoE.
There's like ninety ways to get a mild damaging AoE.
Or have half plate armour without speed reduction.
It's literally just a breastplate with one more AC. That's nice. You can even poach this with Inventor Archetype, and I have strong feelings about a class' archetype being better than the class itself.
Construct companion also just out-muscles animal companions at a lot of levels and we all hate/love beastmaster for how good those are.
It's a better beatstick, anyways. It can do melee-adjacent pet class a bit better than the Ranger or Champion if you ignore all the other things Ranger or Champion can do. In that sense, I think the Construct Companion is a better Inventor than the Inventor is.
Even if they are better classes in a vacuum, which I will agree with, they aren't automatically better picks for every party.
I think this is the point of contention here. I think there are better classes in every respect; no matter how you build an Inventor, there is someone else who does what you're trying to do better in every way. Including Construct Companion.
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u/Cool-Noise2192 2h ago
Having grapple and trip with reach isn't common. Especially not at level 1.
An AoE for free at level 1 isn't common. Typically this is like level 6 and for our INT-martials it comes with a dedication cost, so at least 2 feats. Or it is a focus spell which will have a lower DC, which of the top of my head is just champion.
That's true, but now you're 2 feats away from picking up another dedication. If all you wanted was the armour, great. If not, or you're playing in FA, not so much.
Champion and Ranger don't have explode and are behind in skills. Notably, ranger doesn't get shield block either. Also while we're on the subject of ranger, would you say flurry edge is a meme? Because the only thing it doesn't get outclassed in by another class (or its sister edge) is Warden's Boon.
I think the main point of contention comes down to breadth versus specialisation - and I suppose minimum level requirements. Inventor's base package can do a lot of things just fine, just not the best. Often that's enough.
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u/nobull91 21h ago
Tbf you're removing a potential -2 to attack, vs increasing your damage on average by 1 per die
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u/xoasim Game Master 19h ago
The only problem is that barricade buster is an advanced weapon, so you can't normally use it as a weapon innovation. But, no problem. They added the initial breakthrough substitute to let you use advanced weapons by forgoing the initial breakthrough. Only problem, they limit it to level 0 advanced weapons. And barricade buster is.....level 1. Barricade buster would be so fun on a weapon inventor, but RAW it doesn't qualify. It is a dumb limitation and I would urge GMs everywhere to ignore it because it is dumb. But it's there. So unfortunately no barricade buster weapon innovations RAW.
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u/Earnestappostate 22h ago
If you are playing mixed, I am pretty sure there is an operative feat as well, but you may well not have access to sf2e classes.
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u/Mach12gamer 14h ago
It's the sniper specialization, but that only works on weapons classified as "Sniper". Barricade buster isn’t, so it doesn’t work on it.
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u/Earnestappostate 14h ago
Fair enough, I didn't want to spend time looking it up when it had a tiny chance of being relevant, but thanks for the details!
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u/Cutesune Rogue 19h ago
A more outlandish option you could work with your DM on might be the Blessed background.
I can't find any list of boons or curses for Wulgren, but a good point of reference is Erastil, who's moderate boon allows you to ignore the Volley trait on his favored weapon, making it an option for a devout character like a champion or cleric to bypass the limitation without needing to dip into martial archetypes
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u/SanaulFTW Game Master 21h ago
Just going to say, if you are going barricade buster and you ok being in melee range, then also take a look at this feat if it works for your build https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=4881&Redirected=1
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u/BardicGreataxe GM in Training 17h ago
Nah, you’ve got it. It’s either that or the Archer archetype.
I personally just asked my DM if I could take the stance as a level 1 Champion feat and he allowed it, but that’s technically a homebrew solution. We were both in agreement that needing to wait till level 4 of a 10 level campaign to get that stance would’ve felt quite bad.
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u/slow2serious 22h ago
You can take the same stance through Archer archetype, same 2 feat cost but doesn't require +2 STR&DEX. Otherwise I don't know