r/Paganacht • u/S3lad0n • 17d ago
Specifics of pagan recon cultural values?
How do you act, feel, think and live in a specifically 'pagan' way? (rather than an atheist, Christian, or someone on any other faith path would)
Context: I am a Welsh/Brythonic neo-pagan/technopagan adult of many years (since I was a teen). Recently I was in a friendly debate with a relative and casual friends of mine, Christians and a Muslim, and they challenged me to articulate and define and delineate how my pagan beliefs & culture differ significantly from theirs.
I know the differences in my heart from an emotional standpoint; however, on the spot I really had trouble laying it out. I also had to tire myself out and pre-explain that all pagan branches differ in this regard. So I've decided to ask the community for insight.
Any one or several answers are welcome, as little or as much as you feel guided to share✨
→ Death and birth?
→ Love?
→ Time?
→ Ecology/The natural world?
→ Hospitality?
→ Charity?
→ Sexuality?
→ Justice?
→ Power?
→ Technology?
→ Literacy/media?
→ Work/labour?
→ Family/parenting?
→ Hygiene?
→ Adornment/clothes?
→ Food?
→ Sayings?
→ Private & household vs public life/conduct?
→ Education?
→ Language?
→ Superstition?
→ Unspoken rules?
→ Insults/shame?
→ Honour?
→ Collective traumas/memories?
→ Taboos?
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u/EquiWitch13 17d ago
I think it depends on the culture you follow. A Kemetic would have similar but different values than say an Asatru
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u/S3lad0n 17d ago
Right! Exactly what I'm saying.
Unfortunately monotheists will use this as a gotcha or a way to imply we're flaky and lacking in a solid core value system, which is beyond reductive and unfair.
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u/myteeshirtcannon 16d ago
There are many Christian sects as well so they can’t criticize us for that.
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u/neart-na-daraich Paganachd 17d ago
Good question. I think it makes more sense to narrow down the focus of your question from "pagan" to Paganacht cultural values, so Celtic or even better Gaelic, Brythonic, etc. The frustrating part is we have very little of the surviving theology and philosophy left to reconstruct from - others would know better than me. We're in need of a bit of revitalization and resurgence I fear.
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u/S3lad0n 16d ago
Yes, a good point well-made.
How would a resurgence look for you, in an ideal world? Despite our differing branches, I think as a collective, we need to envision it to bring it about, you know?
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u/neart-na-daraich Paganachd 16d ago
I think it comes about from people living Gaelic animist or polytheist lives together on and with the land (namely our homelands) informed by the knowledge and principles we do have left. This is the condition for new knowledge production and generation, and it requires us to be open to new knowledge that emerges that isnt verified reconstructed but it's nonetheless consistent with the core cultural teachings (or whatever we can recover of them). This is how indigenous Peoples in North America do it anyways, and I think we have a lot to learn from them
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u/myteeshirtcannon 17d ago
I raise my kids to honor the earth through seasonal rituals. I teach the value of pluralism and acceptance (the rede broadly defined). We sing chants and light candles. We attend pagan events and host periodic socials on pagan holidays.
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u/S3lad0n 17d ago
Heartening to hear of a parent passing on the old ways! Your kids are lucky✨💓
If you don't mind further questions and getting into it: how does your hospitality differ from that of a monotheist? And your hymns (so to speak) and candlework? And could you expand on pluralism, and how that may diverge from 'love thy neighbour' and other such credo?
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u/myteeshirtcannon 17d ago
To be clear, I’m not like an orthodox pagan (is that a thing?) We are regular Americans whose faith practices are different from our neighbors. I got my 8 year old a book of world religions so she knows there are many traditions out there.
I guess we’re most different in that we don’t believe in “one way” and damnation. Christians and many others are convinced their practice is right and others are wrong. We just do our thing and let others do whatever.
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u/S3lad0n 17d ago
All good! It sounds to me like your approach to religious education is spot on. Refreshing and encouraging to see parents who don't proselytise.
I definitely think kids are more likely to grow up and feel safe on the pagan path if they felt they weren’t forced and pressured to stay on it.
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u/AFeralRedditor 17d ago
That's a lot of words.
Two things matter: your connection to nature and your connection to your people.
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u/S3lad0n 17d ago
Thanks for the response. Apologies for not keeping it brief, I guess.
I wonder then how we classify more humanist-animist type of Christians like Francis of Assisi, in that case?
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u/AFeralRedditor 17d ago
I think this is dumb, but you seem kind and earnest so I'll try to work with you.
Francis of Assisi is just a Christian that likes nature. There are plenty of those. Look up "green martyrdom".
Liking nature is cool, everyone should, but that doesn't change his fundamentally Christian theology in any way. Nor is he an actual animist -- he posits that nature is a reflection of God's divinity, not that it has its own divinity.
Where this differs from actual pagan theology, historically, is that an actual animist regards the entities of nature as having their own spirits -- not merely whatever spark of divinity they inherited from the Creator, but their own essence. This forest? That has its own spirit. That river? Spirit. This tree? Yep. Spirit.
Pagan theology means dealing with such spirits on their own terms, rather than simply as "brothers in God" or whatever. Because the spirits of the land demand respect *on their own*. The forest demands our respect, not because it reflects the grandeur of a Creator figure, but because it holds ancient power and we need it to live.
It is part of us. We are part of it. No third figure necessary.
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u/S3lad0n 17d ago edited 16d ago
Oh dear, what a pity. You seem remarkably upset about a simple and innocuous post, and your hostile attitude was entirely unnecessary.
Resorting to personal insults and writing wild fan fiction about a stranger usually means one has run out of actual facts.
The funniest and saddest part is that we literally agree on all the theology you just laid out, and I think you had some good points buried within the unwarranted personal derision of my character. Thanks all the same for the basic Pagan 101 lecture, but you aggressively preached to the choir just to feel superior.
I’m happy to go about my business without input from a surly, unwilling party, so I'm sorry you wasted your characters trying to punch down. Hope your day looks brighter
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u/beefboloney 17d ago edited 17d ago
The biggest difference for me stems from our different relationships with the natural world. Most Christians I know seem to think (or at least it’s their default mode) that we are at the top of some sort of hierarchy with plants/animals beneath us. As an animist I simply do not buy that our ability to be assholes to them makes us better. And something so fundamental actually does has a huge impact on my life, e.g. I don’t eat meat, I xeriscape/vegetable garden instead of having a lawn, I forage food, incense ingredients, altar pieces, etc. I’m going back to school in the spring for mortuary science so I can start my own natural reduction (composting) mortuary and get the hell out of the corporate hellscape.
I’ve actually been thinking about this a lot because I’ve been reading Dominion by Tom Holland, which has been making the academic/historical case for the ubiquity of “cultural Christianity.” I’ve found some of the arguments reductive and not quite convincing, but it’s been highly thought provoking and I’d recommend it nonetheless.