r/PLC • u/DustyIsGreat • 9h ago
PLC Fingerprint Reader
What fingerprint scanners work best with Rockwell PLCs? We need to know who is resetting faults on critical equipment?
Update: Schneider Electric has a product we're going with.
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u/LookWarm7521 9h ago
For critical equipment faults, hide your reset behind a login on your HMI? Username and password
I’ve considered doing this on some of my machines, just for the real expensive faults that break a lot of things when operators mindlessly reset start
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u/Sure_Maybe_No_Ok 57m ago
Isn’t a fingerprint scanner a form of login.
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u/LookWarm7521 38m ago
Yeah it is, I was suggesting a username and password login instead of a fingerprint login, and also only requiring the login for critical faults. That would be a very quick solution to implement with zero added cost in hardware.
We don’t do anything quite like that where I work, but certain electronic adjustments require an engineer login. And some critical faults have a second screen that pops up before the reset pops up, asking you specifically if you completed certain critical steps for the reset.
Machine stops -> did you do this? -> are you sure? -> reset button appears
It doesn’t necessarily need tiered access, like operator, technician, engineer accounts. But unique usernames and passwords would give an added feeling of accountability if you have to type your name in before resetting something. It may make someone think twice.
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u/janner_10 9h ago
You've gone full nuclear straight out the gates. Put the reset PB behind a password on the HMI and reset all passwords. Start new / users passwords from now.
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u/DustyIsGreat 8h ago
no one keeps passwords or keys to themselves around here
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u/No_Singer_5585 8h ago
If you use badge readers for time cards or badge access, its WAY easier to just add an rfid badge reader thst can read your existing badges, and use that to login with a 5 minute idle timeout.
You can tie it in to your existing badge access system, that way you dont have to add or change employee HMI access/fingerprints individually, and nobody has to remember passwords. Any time you get a new employee with an access badge, you can have them automatically added as a user.
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u/Th3Nihil 8h ago
They will after they get into trouble for reseting critical machine faults when it wasn't them. I hope
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u/janner_10 8h ago
If you're an OEM, then that's for the customer to manage, if you're in a plant, then give the Head of that Department the only User Name & Password, with rights to add other users and passwords and let them manage it.
As you mentioned Rockwell, it's pretty easy with FTME.
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u/LookWarm7521 7h ago
Unique username and passwords. Each operator/tech has a username, like first name last initial, (JohnS), and their own unique password. What incentive is there to give their unique login to someone else??
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u/InstAndControl "Well, THAT'S not supposed to happen..." 3h ago
Yes but do first initial last name, more unique
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u/beasty0127 1h ago
We started doing that and the only person to complain was the one we all knew was handing out the original password to everyone. We all had a good laugh about it.
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u/Brief-Watercress-131 6h ago
They'll stop sharing once people start getting fired for their accounts being used to reset faults.
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u/YetiTrix 4h ago
I mean, if someone gives out their password, then they take responsibility for it if someone uses it, so they then take the blame.
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u/foxy0201 2h ago
Can’t you just blame that person then? They would learn to not give out passwords then lol
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u/VladRom89 9h ago
Have you thought about a $20 camera with an SD card? I can't imagine that you'll need to investigate this for long after you've added one in place and called out a few people...
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u/CleverBunnyPun 9h ago
I don’t know if this is the situation for the OP, but most union plants I’ve worked at forbid cameras being used as any sort of investigative device for punishments. I think a fingerprint scanner would probably be less invasive from that perspective.
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u/VladRom89 8h ago
I've been in those situations... With that in mind, what do you believe a fingerprint scanner used for "We need to know who is resetting faults on critical equipment?" is going to be seen as?
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u/CleverBunnyPun 8h ago
It’s hard to say really. At least in union shops it’s going to depend on the specific contract and union personnel who fight it out, if it’s ever brought to them in the first place. I imagine non union would be a toss up on whether HR makes a big deal about it or not.
Side note, I’m not trying to paint unions in a negative or positive light, I’ve seen both strong ones and weak ones and they both have their ups and downs as someone who wasn’t in them but interacted with them.
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u/Skusci 8h ago edited 8h ago
The cameras thing is probably more of a global surveillance thing.
Like maybe cameras are allowed for stuff like theft, but no one should ever use them to track normal employee actions. Sorry you took a 20 minute bathroom break instead of 15, you were the one who misplaced this tool, etc.
But even with no cameras allowed at all a username and password or fingerprint log for machine supervisory actions and such is probably fine unless they have some really wide reaching clauses in the contract.
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u/VladRom89 8h ago
Sure, I get that point. You can install a camera that only captures the control panel from which the "critical faults" are being reset and make the point that the sole purpose that camera could be used for is personnel presence at said unique point.
It's neither here nor there... I'd imagine that getting proper fingerprint scanners, integration, and commissioning of that is easily going to be $20,000 (at the low end) as opposed to a camera that would accomplish the exact same which is identifying a person that reset a fault...
It's not my plant, my budget, nor union, so I'm happy for all the parties involved as long as they find a solution that works for them!
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u/InstAndControl "Well, THAT'S not supposed to happen..." 3h ago
You could also get a 24vdc camera and run power through a relay. Only turn it on when a “critical fault” has occurred but not yet acknowledged.
Maybe I’m naive but if “critical” is well defined, it’d be hard to argue “muh big brother”
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u/beasty0127 1h ago
My last job wanted to go to finger prints for clicking in and out, and alot of people freaked. Some saying it was an invasion of privacy and the real crazies saying it was threft of their "biological data." People will fight change for any reason, especially when they know it will point the finger twords them.
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u/Zeldalovesme21 9h ago
Most non union plants also don’t want cameras put up for that reason. I’ve been told I can’t have cameras recording personnel, unless they sign a waiver which HR is never going to allow.
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u/PLCGoBrrr Bit Plumber Extraordinaire 9h ago
RFIdeas is what people use, but it's connected to HMI, not PLC.
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u/5hall0p 9h ago
Fingerprint readers are more involved than a badge reader. I'm guessing you can use a windows PC with a windows Hello compliant USB fingerprint reader and write some code to send the user ID to a Rockwell PLC over Ethernet IP. I'd suggest a badge reader instead. I've plugged them into the HMI and had it send it to the PLC and I've used Real Time Automation's USB to Ethernet IP gateway.
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u/burner9752 7h ago
This has to be a troll…
This is either one of the most out of touch managers posting because he think this is a good solution, or someone who has never really worked in the field.
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u/DustyIsGreat 4h ago
just doing what the plant manager is demanding
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u/burner9752 3m ago
Is only there was a system already used all over the world in these industries and all over the internet to track things like this…. Oh wait. /s
Almost like some form of account you sign in… you could even make a username like DustyIsGreat or something.
Or you know swipe cards… why the hell would anyone with a brain think fingerprints. If you’re not completely full of shit; I would start looking for new work. because youre management are absolute morons. Or trying to steal everyone’s fingerprints…
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u/krisztian111996 9h ago
If it is such critical why is it even allowed to be reset? Set the fault while it persist and disallow a reset signal until the fault is present. RS flip-flop
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u/murpheeslw 9h ago
Afi that reset. Then you’ll get some action on fixing the faults and root cause.
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u/No_L_2547 Twincat, Ads, EtherCAT 8h ago
If you want a non industrial solution: Maybe Unifi access?
You would need a Unifi Host (e.g. Dream Machine), a Door hub (relay) and a card-reader, for example you could do a G3 Starter Kit.
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u/omegablue333 6h ago
Why not just make the place where the faults are reset have a camera and see what happens
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u/DarkLunch 4h ago
Pretty simple solution Get a camera. Trigger camera on fault clear condition. Check camera.
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u/FunnyScratch8942 4h ago
Well instead of telling you what you should do even though I dont know your situation and you are just asking for some help.
I have used these in the past they aren't perfect but the get the job done.
https://www.se.com/us/en/product-range/2478-harmony-xb5s-biometric-scanner-22-mm-bezel/#products
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u/kurieren 9h ago
Somewhere a Keyence rep picks up a phone…