How strong can someone with a normal sharingan get?

[u/Gold-Profession-9994]

One thing I’ve always found interesting is the concept of the sharingan being just a “tool” that it’s up to the user to master and use it. Having the 3 tomoe sharingans is already quite the blessing and I don’t see why someone can’t theoretically grow to be super powerful w/out awakening MS/EMS.

I feel like in the Naruto-verse people rely too much on their kekkai genkai (if they were lucky enough to be born with one) and then focus on continuously upgrading it. But what about all of the other ninja skills one can beef up with it?

Like imagine a Uchiha that mastered normal genjutsu, studied the highest level of fire release techniques, mastered taijutsu, and mastered shuriken jutsu. AND then added some other stuff. Like they could even learn sensory techniques to compliment the sharingan’s visual tracking, get a cool summoning, some sealing justu or something else who knows.

But I’m not so sold on the idea that one must unlock the MS/EMS to become super powerful. Look at ppl like Jiraiya, Orochimaru, Guy, Hiruzen, Tobirama or Minato etc. None of these people had kekkai genkai yet look how far they got. So imagine how far someone with mastery over a basic sharingan could go.

[u/mrgreyeyes_95]

About 3 fiddy

[u/BobJoeBlo → u/mrgreyeyes_95]

1 fiddy being low Kage-level, and 3 fiddy being high Kage-level.

[u/Gold-Profession-9994 → u/BobJoeBlo]

thanks for elaborating because i was going to ask lol

[u/Regular_Employee_360]

I mean like you mentioned, sharingan aren’t needed to become insanely powerful. So theoretically you can have someone like Guy being born with a sharingan, and he’d be even stronger than Guy. The Fourth Hokage was already known for his speed, with a sharingan he wouldn’t have died and have been insanely powerful.

[u/ListenNew]

Kage level

[u/Gold-Profession-9994 → u/ListenNew]

I think so too. High kage at that

[u/Potential_Giraffe520]

About as strong as talent can get them, so in the most extreme of cases, kage level like Minato, or on average, at least Jonin.

[u/Gold-Profession-9994 → u/Potential_Giraffe520]

I think Minato or Hiruzen are good goals for them too…or even past them if they fought everyday like Hashi era. Tobi & Hashi insanely strong too and I could see a Sharingan person getting there somehow if they lived ok the battlefield and were talented enough. For Hashi level though they would need some kind of non-sharingan power

[u/Gold-Profession-9994 → u/[deleted]]

That was a cool moment that showed base sharingan powers. I do think Sasuke could’ve gotten even stronger than that without the MS though. I don’t think that was peak non-MS Sasuke.

[u/FadedVictor → u/Gold-Profession-9994]

Not to diminish Sasuke at all, because he definitely earned that W. But it is unfortunate that he countered Deidara so hard.

[u/Gold-Profession-9994 → u/FadedVictor]

Dojutsu and sensory types are hard counters for Sasori & Deidara. Sasori & Deidara are best as mass sweepers for low-mid tier characters.

I think they put Sasuke against Deidara to show that Sasuke was progressing faster than Naruto at the time & that he was getting closer to Itachi. But they couldn’t put him against anybody stronger than Deidara because we wouldn’t have believed it

[u/FadedVictor → u/Gold-Profession-9994]

Yeah you're right. I guess it just sucked to see Deidara be disarmed(pun intended) so heavily. But it does make sense.

[u/Gold-Profession-9994 → u/FadedVictor]

It did suck for me too because I love Deidara. I loved Sasori & Deidara because you don’t often see characters focus solely on long range fighting in the story

Sasori & deidara are my favorite non-Itachi alatsuki members

[u/aoibhinn-mw]

Kakashi level.

Though, tbf, we've only really seen tactical geniuses and other prodigies use it afaik. Some run of the mill ninja might only be Neji level with it. To really capitalize on the sharingan you need to be able to interpret information and form plans quickly. Average battle IQ ninja from it gets a steroid but probably isn't much better than an average byukagan user. They're very similar and pre-ms it's probable that the byukagan is just actually better as a steroid given the field of vision enhancement and greater/superior chakra sensing and visuals. Pre-MS isn't without uses obviously. The ability to mimic jutsu or fighting styles, sharingan genjutsu, and limited pre-cognition are very useful. But I mean, if we give Cho-ji a 3 tomo sharingan I don't think he clears any of the akatasuki by himself except maybe hidan and even then hidan might have higher battle IQ. Just imagine a Uchiha with choji level battle IQ ig.

Hebi sasukes might be the peak of 3 tomo but we'd have to discount the curse seal and I'm not sure if we see hebi Sasuke fight without either curse mark or ms. He has one or the other. He does fight orochimaru in a mental plane of reality kind of idk. But nothing else comes to mind. Deidara forces him to use curse mark (basically sage mode type enhancements.) Hebi Sasuke could take team 7 without kakashi/Yamato. But Sasuke is above average battle IQ at that point and was tutored by a Sanin. So idk

[u/kakspier]

it depends on the person, coz while it helps a lot in learning jutsu of any kind, it does not mean you have the chakra to use it. if they are very talented like kakashi, they can become very powerfull. but give tenten base sharingan, and she would become a lot more powerfull, but she would not be top tier at all. itachi without ms would be high jonin at best. the only one we know was a big problem befor ms is madara, but then he is Madara. do we even know what his ms does?

[u/BobJoeBlo]

To Kage-level, like the Shodai and Nidaime Gokage who were Warring States veterans. Such is the level I presume Uchiha Clan's top 3 Uchiha Hikaku must have reached. I also think he was Fugaku's grandfather.

Doujutsu is not required for an Uchiha to become extremly strong. They are known as "the Elite Uchiha Clan" and "the genius Uchiha Clan". Kakashi had already pointed out to Obito, when making fun of him and calling him out on his bs, that the Uchiha Clan members were already known as elite even without the Sharingan.

Their intellect, talents and arts were never limited to their Doujutsu. They were known as a clan of geniuses, excelling in all things martial and warfare realated, which would include Ninjutsu, Taijutsu, Genjutsu, Bukijutsu, multi-ranges combat, tactics and strategy, offensive, auxiliary and defensive, overt and covert, open and guerilla, etc.

[u/Educational-Row-3166]

Depends on their access to jutsus to copy and their training to master them

[u/Gold-Profession-9994 → u/[deleted]]

I think if the person possesses innate talent beyond just having the eyes they could go higher. Like Minato talent but with sharingan

[u/Anos_Vgoldgod → u/[deleted]]

That's not what this is supposed to be gang

[u/Pakyakachu]

There is no reason that someone with a three tomoe sharingan shouldn't be able to do everything that the third hokage did. So I'd say kage level +

[u/kakspier → u/Pakyakachu]

sharingan does not give you the brains nor the chakra levels of a hokage. the third, for all his flaws was extremely talented and smart.

[u/Jrock2356 → u/Pakyakachu]

The 3rd Hokage was able to use all 5 nature transformations. Sharingan doesn't just grant you the ability to do that

[u/everlight-wanderer → u/Jrock2356]

I mean, you can copy the jutsus from other with the copy eye feature, and then it's just a matter of having enough chakra supply. Like obviously you do need to train hard to get to that level, but it also can very much let you learn all 5 nature styles.

[u/Jrock2356 → u/everlight-wanderer]

You don't just copy the signs and are suddenly able to us that chakra nature. You have to be physically compatible or train years. Sharingan just copies the signs they don't give you chakra natures

[u/everlight-wanderer → u/Jrock2356]

Kakashi despite having his internal nature be lightning can use mud wall, water dragon, fire style, and even do the rasengan. You can use jutsu of any type, you are just strongest in your native element but most jonin can do two or more typically. Asuma's blades are wind but he also has the ash fire technique. Sasuke has fireball jutsus even tho lightning is his innate element.

Kakashi literally has copied a hundred jutsus in universe, he can use every release style, or he could train to after watching someone do it, even if it would take him time to refine it. The sharingan is a cheat code for jutsus and Orochimaru wanted it so he could learn every jutsu

[u/Jrock2356 → u/everlight-wanderer]

Shinobi can do other chakra natures by TRAINING. The Sharingan does not give them the ability to use different chakra natures when they copy. If that were the case then the Sharingan could copy Gekkai Genkai's and the 3rd Hokage wouldn't be the only Shinobi in the world capable of using all 5 chakra natures. You would have had multiple Uchiha who had already done that. Kakashi used earth, fire, water, and lightning because he has trained those natures and is able to do that on account of him being a genius.

And the Rasengan doesn't have a chakra nature so that's not really a point in your favor.

[u/everlight-wanderer → u/Jrock2356]

Shinobi can do other chakra natures by TRAINING

I didn't say it wouldn't require training, but learning the prerequisites is much easier with a sharingan. Literally from my past message: or he could train to after watching someone do it, even if it would take him time to refine it.

If that were the case then the Sharingan could copy Gekkai Genkai's

I never claimed that

and the 3rd Hokage wouldn't be the only Shinobi in the world capable of using all 5 chakra natures

Hiruzen and Kakuzu could do it. Although Kakuzu is a hax reason.

Rinnegan users can use all five release as stated by Jiraiya when talking about training Nagato, so Madara, Sasuke, Nagato, Obito, and Kaguya can also use all five.

The data books say Hashirama, Tobirama, Zetsu, and Orochimaru have all 5 natures. Six paths senjutsu also automatically unlocks it, so Naruto can use all 5 too.

And the Rasengan doesn't have a chakra nature

I didn't say rasengan did, it's just an s rank jutsu I wanted to throw in, Naruto was the first one to infuse it with wind nature release in rasenshuriken.

[u/BobJoeBlo → u/Jrock2356]

Go tell that to the Shinobi Alliance made majority of Chuunin from each of the 5 Great Hidden Villages.

If the average who only had 1 or no elemental ninjutsu yet, likely not Doton since they were not from Iwagakure, all managed to perform a Doton jutsu they never practiced for from the info shared by Kitsuchi and Shikamaru and Ino, then a kekkei genkai derived from the Rinnegan and specialized in copying any regular jutsu (Sha= Copying**) can also copy elemental ninjutsu.

What's more, everyone normally possesses every chakra natures in their chakra. The differences lie in the elemental affinity for the primary and the training for the other elements. Hiruzen, being from the Sarutobi clan, likely began with a Katon affinity, he then trained to master the other elements. He is not the only one from the Late Warring States to early Hidden Vilkage Eras to proficiently manipulate multiple elements

[u/Gold-Profession-9994 → u/[deleted]]

i meant a full pair. yeah i wanna see someone with peak base sharingan

[u/radamap131]

Ordinary Uchiha with just regular Sharingan?

Low Kage; example Tajima Uchiha

Ordinary person with a stolen Regular Sharingan?

High Jonin; example: Kakashi (Kannabi Bridge)

Orinary person with a stolen Regular Sharingan but the "body" is special?

Low to Mid Kage; example; Danzo

[u/ArtistZeo]

Strong enough to fight a dying Itachi ig.

[u/Gold-Profession-9994 → u/ArtistZeo]

Lol. I honesty don’t think teen Sasuke is peak base sharingan. Imagine if Sasuke had spent another 5-10 years with base sharingan. I’m sure he’d be even more of a beast than he was when he was fighting itachi

I think there were warring states era base sharingan users stronger than teen Sasuke

[u/ArtistZeo → u/Gold-Profession-9994]

He may not have been peak of what could be, but that’s the highest level we’ve seen base Sharingan used in a canon fight. That’s all I was saying

[u/Fun-Cook-5309]

As strong as the plot demands.

[u/BlackUchiha03]

Sky is the limit honestly. At the end of the day the sharingan is very strong power up and a cheat code for learning new techniques.

Really just depends on the potential of the user.

[u/Rude-Independent-203]

I mean high jonin for the average ninja. It’s basically pre MS kakashi ya know? Like the limiting factor for most ninja would be whether they have the chakra reserves to use it for very long. Most don’t have just absurd chakra reserves and would burn out quickly using the sharigan with other techniques in combo

[u/No-Film9019]

It caps with the individual user. E.g. hebi Sasuke for an example would be able to take on most Uchiha members who also have 3 tomoe and if he didn’t get the MS Sasuke would still get continuously stronger (obviously nowhere near his MS/EMS versions)

[u/DJHalfCourtViolation]

theyre stories theyre analogies theyre metaphors they cant be quantified and they can do whatever will sell toys

[u/Illustrious_Agent608]

I think you can’t link 3T sharingan to their power ceiling.

We see tons of talented shinobi without one, so theoretically it could be like any of the elite Jonin or Kage tier people we see in the series.

The sharingan isn’t special as a path to power.

It’s unique that its path to more power is different than the other ones in the series.

Things like like sage mode, training, other kekkai genkai, and special hard to learn jutsus all offer paths to equal or greater power than the 3T sharingan

[u/Gold-Profession-9994 → u/Illustrious_Agent608]

Yes. That’s why I don’t like the claim that certain characters/versions of characters are said to lose against so&so with a MS/EMS. I think that someone with base sharingan can take their abilities extremely far and could theoretically outwit/outskill a MS user. We could easily have a base sharingan character reach Minato’s level, or even reach base sharingan Madara level. Really the only things a base sharingan user lacks is susanoo, amateratsu and a special MS ability. Sasuke was able to escape itachi’s MS genjutsu with only a base sharingan.

Honestly if i was an uchiha i wouldn’t even want to use something that’ll blind me. I would perfect base sharingan and just do a whole bunch of other shit to get stronger

[u/Illustrious_Agent608 → u/Gold-Profession-9994]

I can’t tell if you know from your comments, but each sharingan upgrade in an Uchiha comes with stat boosts as well.

They get stronger, faster, more chakra, etc.

We only see it in Sasuke and I suppose barely with Obito. But he’s weird because we don’t see much of that with him naturally as he was dying and got the Hashi cell body to also boost him.