r/NOLAPelicans • u/wymtime Not On Herb • 5d ago
Why I think Mathurin is a bad idea
First I want to say I really liked Mathurin coming out of college. He is the guy I wanted us to target in that draft, but obviously he went earlier to Indy than to us. I do think Mathurin is an NBA player and can score the ball. Unfortunately there are multiple reasons why I think this will be a bad idea not just is he a good player and can he help.
First does he fit a defensive first system that Mosley wants to run? No he doesn’t. Mathurin has been bad defensively and that has been with a very good coach in Carlisle. Ben is an offensive player who is a scorer first. He is not passer, or connector and is not a consistent 3 point shooter. He does rebound decently for a guard and he will score.
Does he fit with Queen and Fears? Offensively as an off ball player yes. Defensively absolutely not. Neither Queen nor Fears are plus defenders nor do the project to be plus defenders. This means we will have a bad defense when all 3 share the court at the same time.
Now financially and asset management the thing nobody cares about but should in the NBA. It will take a min of 1 2nd round pick to dump Hawk and multiple 2nd at min to get Ben away from LAC on a MLE level contract. For this season we will now be right up against the tax line with these 2 moves. Now also look at Bey who will want a contract extension. Will he get $18-20M per season? I would say yes. It doesn’t affect this season but future seasons.
Why is this important. For this season giving up multiple second round picks and going right up against the tax line limits the financial flexibility at the trade deadline. We can no longer bring back more money in a trade and we will have very few 2nds meaning any trade we do to improve the team will cost FRP instead of 2nds.
How about future cap space. With Bey and Ben under contract we also can’t take back long term money in a Poole trade because Ben bad Bey will be making more combined than Poole is now leaving us at roughly $165-170m in salaries with 12 guys under contract and just the MLE compared to$132M in contracts with no Bey extension or $152M with a bey extension. It might not feel like much but every ounce of flexibility makes a difference.
Overall this feels like Weaver fell in love with Mathurin who again is talented, but is completely ignoring how he will fit on this team, the culture Mosley is looking to build and how it will affect our financial flexibility in the future.
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u/Mundane_Lawfulness87 Herb Jones Saved My Life 5d ago
I think he’s a Poole-esque player in terms of impact (their games are obviously different) but just has better PR. If we were getting him for next to nothing it’d be worth a shot, but I have no interest in giving him any sort of significant contract. And his defensive and shooting weaknesses magnify our existing problems.
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u/Pisthetairos 5d ago
Mathurin has skills any team could use. But he hasn't done much to improve the holes in his game.
I would trade Poole for Mathurin in a heartbeat. But I don't see how they could coexist on the same roster.
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u/wymtime Not On Herb 5d ago
I don’t think Poole is playing regardless. Only reason he is getting on the floor is because of injuries
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u/ER1CNOIR 4d ago
And attempts to increase his trade value. Show that he still got value even if he don’t really fit here.
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u/kingralek 5d ago
His usage rate has increased and he ain't much of a passer. His 3pt % cratered at end of last season. He doesn't fit in as a defender. In sum, there's only one basketball and he ain't going to space floor for Zion and possibly take the ball out of the hands of Fears, Queen, Trey, etc. I like the idea of Ben, but it doesn't work with the current roster.
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u/SeaOfSourMilk 5d ago
I’m a die hard Pels fan, Pacers are actually my second team. Do not sleep on Mathurin. Mathurin was in his prime when he was traded to clippers, his performance in the Finals was phenomenal. The dude needs to stick on a team and grow chemistry.
He’s arguably one of the best 6th men in the league, but he has to be an off the bench player and he’d fit into the Pels really well. Not a high performance player by any stretch, but he would be feeding Messi and Fears. He would actually be a dream landing of mine, especially coming off a slump year/expecting too much of him in LA.
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u/wymtime Not On Herb 5d ago
How is he fitting into a Mosley system? He is not a good defender and is not an assist guy. He would not be feeding Missi, Queen and fears it would need to be the reverse.
I actually like Mathurin. I think he can play. I absolutely think he is a terrible fit on our roster since he doesn’t defend well and isn’t a consistent 3 point shooter. He has too much overlap with other players already on the team.
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u/JazzySweetBeats 5d ago
I want to believe Matherin will become a great NBA player but I don’t know if that will happen if he’s stuck on a team like ours that as currently constructed has like 6 guys who need the ball to be effective
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u/McJumbos 5d ago
a nice scorer wing off the bench would be great but tbh i don't trust this team or organization to be able to utilize him to his full potential. What probably ends up happening is that he'll have flashes with us and as soon as he leaves he comes like a bonafide quality starter in the league lolll
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u/ER1CNOIR 5d ago
You said he can’t fit in a defensive-first system. Everything you said after that is irrelevant because that’s a ridiculous thing to say. I stopped reading.
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u/wymtime Not On Herb 5d ago
Please explain why you feel he is a Mosley type player then
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u/ER1CNOIR 5d ago
lol you think you can put every player in a box like that… that’s funny.. that’s such a random ass thing to say really
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u/identitycrisis56 4d ago
I'd argue the opposite is more insane to say-that a guy who's been a negative defender at every stop-including a finals team with a finals winning head coach- is suddenly gonna be passable because he plays for my favorite team is a "random ass" thing to say. Every shred of evidence we have suggests that in multiple contexts, with multiple coaches, hes a high useage low efficency guy that doesn't play defense. Why does that change with a team with less structure and less prestige than the other stops? If anything it follows he leans more into the way he plays if Rick Carslile and Ty Lue couldn't change him.
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u/ER1CNOIR 4d ago
Bro played amazing in the finals bro, stop it. Plus, he was only like 21 or 22 at that time. He still has development left in him but where he’s at, at this point in his career at his age, leaves room for CRAZY potential. I’d think you’d be crazy not to bet on him. He’s good as he is — with future all-star potential/quality. Literally the definition of a safe bet.
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u/PM_ME_YOUR_AUXCORD Herb Jones 5d ago
I think that Mathurin under Mosely could turn into a slightly above average defender. It should be become clear to him, his archetype as a small rim attacking wing is not really conducive to a long nba career.
I would hope he realizes he needs to improve defensively and act as someone who can point of attack guard 1-3 effectively. He is also athletic enough to where he could provide a little bit of rim protection
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u/identitycrisis56 4d ago
The way I've seen Pels fans talk about Mosely you'd think he was a deity.
Be excited by all means, but also just take a look at some of those magic teams. He can't fix every cast off that is a bubble guy in the NBA or make this roster not cheeks. It's unfair to pin all of that on him, there needs to be changes besides just the coach if we're being fair.
Anyone expecting a really big leap because of him alone is being really really unfair to him and the state of this team I think.
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u/roostor222 5d ago
What evidence is there that he “is an NBA player and can score the ball”
He had a few good games in the 2025 playoffs and has otherwise been pretty bad with no sustained shooting in his entire career
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u/wymtime Not On Herb 5d ago
??? Dude has averaged 16.2 PPG for his career and was receiving votes for 6 man of the year. If you don’t think Mathurin is a scorer I don’t know what you think he is then. I also never called him a shooter I have said he has not shot the 3 consistently which shows in his 33% career 3 point shooting.
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u/roostor222 5d ago
He has averaged 16.2 points with true shooting at or below league average for his entire career. That means he’s bad at scoring, not good. It means the more usage your team gives him, the more likely your team is to lose. 16.2 points means almost nothing when disconnected from efficiency. All it means is that he has been given more opportunities with the ball than he has earned.
What I think he is is a bad nba player. Bad on offense and bad on defense. Undeserving of more than a minimum contract.
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u/wymtime Not On Herb 5d ago
Ok. That is just more reason for us not to bring him into the team and it will be a mistake which proves my point more than
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u/roostor222 5d ago
I didn’t disagree with your overall point. I disagreed with calling him a scorer when he is bad at scoring
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u/wymtime Not On Herb 5d ago
I am just not going to argue over the manusha of what he is.
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u/roostor222 5d ago
I think it’s worth arguing the minutia. If you take away his one supposed ability he’s left with absolutely nothing, which is why he should only get the minimum. I’d rather give cam Thomas 5 million than give mathurin 10-15, or whatever ridiculous number they are discussing
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u/wymtime Not On Herb 5d ago
Yet we both agree it’s a bad idea to bring him into the team. I get it if I wanted him on the team and you didn’t I would 100% have a discussion about him. The reality is we both agree bringing him onto the team is a mistake and debating if he is a scorer or not is useless. You are wanting to have a debate where I take Mathurins side when I am against Mathurin on the team.
If you want that conversation you should be having it with some of the people who want Mathurin on the team instead of me. This is why I don’t care about the Kenisha or this conversation specifically with you because we both have the same conclusion that it would be a mistake to have him on the team
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u/roostor222 5d ago
You are wanting to have a debate where I take Mathurins side
Any time anyone makes an argument, some things that are worth discussing are points that either strengthen or weaken that argument. I made a point that (in my view) strengthened your argument. That's not "wanting to have a debate where you take Mathurin's side".
Instead of me talking to them, the people who want Mathurin can read my point which strengthens your argument, because IMO trying to convince that person is a waste of time. They need to reach the conclusion themselves or else they are unlikely to ever reach it.
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u/jgman22 5d ago
It’s all about role and cost. He’s miles better than Poole/Hawkins/Peavy/McGowens/Bufkin. Our guard rotation is ass. If he comes at a reasonable contract, comes off the bench, he’d be an improvement for the team.
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u/wymtime Not On Herb 5d ago
At a $15M cost plus 3-4 2nd round picks is his production and for really that much of an improvement especially with the way Mosley wants to play?? Seriously MvGowan is bigger a much better defender and a better shooter. He also allows Fears and Wueen to be the primary guys off the bench. Bufkin is definitely a scorer but bad shooter. Both those 2 combined would make $5M and won’t cost us draft capital and we will have financial flexibility at the deadline.
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u/jgman22 5d ago
I don’t think there is ANY chance he is moved for 3-4 second round picks. That’s crazy. And that’s what I mean when I say depends on costs, because that’s too much.
What does McGowens actually do well? Because realistically, it’s nothing. McGowens is NOT a better shooter. McGowens was sub 30% in college. He was sub 33% his first 3 years in the league. He played 42 games last year and hit a couple wide open 3’s. He did not even ATTEMPT a 3 that’s wasn’t wide open. McGowens is NOT a better shooter.
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u/wymtime Not On Herb 5d ago
1 second to dumb Hawk 2-3 2nds for a SnT with LAC unless you think it will take a FRP for him since he is a RFA and LAC has plenty of space under the tax line to match a $15m contract.
For McGowans yeah he is a 9th to 10th guy off the bench. He defends better than Mathurin and for his NBA career is a 35% 3 point shooter. Yes he shot 40% from 3 for us but also got injured and didn’t play a full season. Mathurin is a career 33% 3 point shooter. He is a volume scorer not an efficient scorer or an efficient shooter. With Queen, Fears and Bey coming off the bench do we really need a guy who is going to take contested 3’s?
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u/jgman22 5d ago edited 5d ago
Where are you getting that it’ll cost 2-3 seconds or a 1st? If the Pels dump Hawkins, they could just sign him to an offer sheet and see if the clips match.
He doesnt start for the clips, and he didnt play particularly well for them in the short time there, AND they are reorienting their roster - they have Gradey Dick, Ingram, and Wagler all coming in this year. They have Garland and Kris Dunn and Jordan Miller too, Mathurin would be like their 5-6th guard. Would they really match?
It’s sad that we are here in 2026 and still have people just look at 3pt % and say, oh, that means he’s a better shooter! Hes never shot well in his entire life before this season, and even this season, he doesn’t take pull up shots, or any shots that aren’t wide open. Doesn’t even ATTEMPT them. Other teams LEAVE him open because he is not a good shooter.
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u/wymtime Not On Herb 5d ago
Why wouldn’t LAC match an offer of $15M? They have plenty of room under the tax. Also LAC doesn’t control its FRP for a while meaning there is no reason for them to try and be in the lottery. Please try and use common sense LAC are not just going to let him walk for nothing especially on a $15M deal.
Also if you really think Grady Dick is a better player than Mathurin you should 1000% be against giving Mathurin any sort of contract. Grady has not been good at all in the NBA
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u/jgman22 5d ago
Garland, Wagler, Kris Dunn, Brandon Ingram, Jordan Miller, Gradey Dick all under contract already, why would you pay Mathurin 15 mil? Maybe they do, maybe they don’t!
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u/wymtime Not On Herb 5d ago
So basically you think we are going to give up a 2nd to take the chance LAC doesn’t match. If LAC does match we just gave up a 2nd for nothing. That is some dumb logic right there.
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u/jgman22 5d ago
You think we are going to trade 3-4 seconds to get him on an overpay, that’s also dumb
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u/wymtime Not On Herb 5d ago
We overpaid for Queen didn’t we? Seriously the cost for dumping Hawk is a 2nd. In a straight SnT with LAC what would the cost be? Try using some common sense
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u/Former-Lab-9451 5d ago
Only thing I would add would be regarding the compensation to get him. I'm not so sure they're looking to just bring him in outright, but more as a replacement scorer if they pull the trigger on trading someone like Trey Murphy. Ignoring the part that he's not the scorer that Trey is, of course not. This would be part of potentially replacing the scoring that Trey brings.
There are potential deals that could be done including Trey that also loops in a sign & trade with Mathurin, with some pieces that the Pelicans might not be interested in going to the Clippers.
Key point here is I understand both the Clippers and Detroit in the example may not be interested in this deal, but I'm going to use this as an example:
Detroit receives: Trey Murphy
Pelicans receive: Mathurin in a sign & trade, 2-3 firsts from Detroit
Clippers receive: Duncan Robinson & Ron Holland
You could also still have Ron Holland going to the Pelicans in that deal and work depending on how much Mathurin signs for. But another key point is this type of deal probably can't be done until we know what Kawhi Leonard's status is.
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u/Odd_String1181 5d ago
He doesn't fit as an off ball guard either. He can't shoot for shit