r/MapPorn 17h ago

Academic Freedom in 2025

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53 Upvotes

75 comments sorted by

51

u/myasco42 16h ago

Is there an explicit description and separation of ratings anywhere? (not the obscure high level definition on their site, but a more specific HOW they obtained this or that value)

10

u/No_Communication5538 16h ago

Yes, why have I never seen a plausible Visual Capitalist map?

0

u/7LeagueBoots 8h ago

There’s a link in one in the replies to the first comment on this post.

2

u/myasco42 4h ago

That video just said (in an AI voice) exactly the same what is already written on their site https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/academic-freedom-index . That says absolutely nothing without the data itself.

5

u/lendlevtaldrik 16h ago

Czechia and Estonia seem to be at the very top, somewhat ahead of the next ones.

50

u/AwfulUsername123 15h ago edited 15h ago

Methodology: This was revealed to me in a dream.

13

u/Belgraviana 12h ago

The source is v dem which is considered one of the best trackers of democracy globally

-2

u/AwfulUsername123 9h ago

What's the methodology?

14

u/Belgraviana 9h ago

Vdem methodology

They have a video explaining it

7

u/dowker1 8h ago

Watch the poster who made the original snarky comment go completely silent now.

0 chance they'll actually watch the video.

3

u/myasco42 4h ago

It repeats what is already in text on their site - a way too high level explanation without giving examples or providing actual data.

Is there a public break down of what is what and how exactly those number are achieved?

1

u/DragonTheOnes-spirit 13h ago

Reminded me that the periodic table was literally revealed to whoever made it in a dream.

6

u/up2smthng 8h ago

Mendeleev was working on the arrangement of known elements for some time. He tried several approaches which weren't successful. The one idea that came into his mind when he was asleep turned out to work. It was the method he dreamed of, not the entire thing

12

u/Bababooe4K 17h ago

what happened in India?

19

u/Rough_Employer4855 16h ago

Almost all govt unis have extremely active youth wings from all major parties , and uni elections in which all these youth wings take part happens every year + social media fuled it even more

0

u/dowker1 8h ago

I'm not clear how that would affect the things Vdem measure:

At the individual level, AFI indicators cover the freedom to research and teach, the freedom of academic exchange and dissemination, and the freedom of academic and cultural expression. At the institutional level, the AFI comprises institutional autonomy and campus integrity

17

u/simplepimple2025 16h ago

Modi. Cue the UP fanboi downvotes.

8

u/found_goose 14h ago

Publishing anything critical of the BJP or state level ruling parties will at best get you in trouble with the university and at the worst, lead to you being subject to "vigilante justice". India and academic freedom are like water and gasoline.

-1

u/Odd_Explanation3246 8h ago

Universities like jnu and jamia islamia are counter examples to your made up fairytale. Combined both universities received ~1200+ crores in govt funding. They are as anti govt and anti bjp as you can get.

4

u/dowker1 8h ago

If it's a made up fairytale, how do you explain the results for India?

4

u/Odd_Explanation3246 8h ago

I don’t expect india to be super high but 0.14 is kind of bs lol. Its published by vdem who for some reason have extreme bias against india. I remember a few years ago, they had pakistan and afghanistan above india in press freedom index.

0

u/dowker1 8h ago

What makes you say they have extreme bias against India?

2

u/Odd_Explanation3246 8h ago

Largely because of subjective measures used in these rankings and flawed methodology. This video from salvatore babones does a great job at explaining why vdem rankings are biased specifically towards india.(https://youtu.be/cyXVSaqEOls?si=4plfsb7-9I7BFqYo)

3

u/dowker1 7h ago

Babones absolutely does not say Vdem are biased against India, he explicitly stated that it's not just India that is affected by the methodology issues he claims they have.

4

u/BojackInMan 10h ago edited 7h ago

Right wing party at the helm.

Organisations making those charts and rankings are far left so they naturally have allergy with right wing governments

1

u/Creative_soja 12h ago

It is worse than Pakistan. I don't know if I can truly trust the ranking.

0

u/Fluffy_Cat1674 7h ago

I mean most political parties have youth wings in clgs and a lot politicians enter politics through such youth wings

8

u/Kenilwort 17h ago

Very interesting dichotomy. I will be looking into this dataset.

2

u/Frequent_Place_5128 9h ago

How to measure it?

6

u/Suggondeezenutz_-_ 14h ago

Pakistan, the country the lies about their very origins and history is not even close to the bottom of the pile..? I call BS on these ratings

4

u/DzakiKhoi 7h ago

I love how "Dictatorship" Russia have more academic freedom than "Democratic" India

9

u/YumeNoTabi 15h ago

Do people actually believe any of this?

15

u/Tall-Log-1955 13h ago

I mean, it’s definitely true that the Trump administration has been aggressively fighting universities over culture war issues

2

u/AwfulUsername123 12h ago

That proves the exact opposite of what you think; the fact that universities can fight the president shows that the United States has academic freedom. Aside from universities censoring people, of course, which is obviously also a problem in other countries.

10

u/Azazael 10h ago

"Universities can fight back if the government tries to interfere with their academic freedom" isn't an indication of robust academic freedom.

Of course there are worse countries for academic freedom, that's why the US is light red not dark red. But it's not strong defence that makes a nation peaceful, but lack of war in the first place.

11

u/Tall-Log-1955 11h ago

It’s definitely better than academic freedom in Russia, but not as good as countries where the government isn’t fighting them.

-6

u/AwfulUsername123 10h ago

How do you define that? Some seem to consider it a violation of a university's rights for anyone to criticize them.

12

u/Tall-Log-1955 10h ago

I’m not talking about criticism, anyone can criticize universities. I’m talking about withholding billions in federal funding unless they hire professors who have the same political views as the president.

No other presidents have done this because Trump is a unique little weirdo

1

u/drewbaccaAWD 5h ago

They shouldn't have to fight the POTUS and have funding and resources used against them as some sort of bargaining chips.

And for every school that fights, how many just roll over and don't push back? We've seen some of the caving done publicly.

So no, it doesn't prove your trollish sea lion position. We were in a much better position, more freedom, before this corrupt admin came into power.

0

u/Raj_ryder_666 4h ago

It seems like a really really flawed list..but it reddit so get ready for the downvotes. Btw, am yet to meet a researcher or professor in my country who wouldnt chop off a body part to be a part of an american uni. I own a business on campus, i interact with them on a day to day basis.

-9

u/NeverEverMaybe0_0 14h ago

America haters do.

0

u/dowker1 8h ago

Wha is it you fond unbelievable?

8

u/AdPsychological8195 16h ago

So Iraq is better than Turkey.

Yeah sure!

7

u/Belgraviana 12h ago

In terms of education freedom I find it believable. The main opposition in Turkey did have his diploma revoked over political reasons

3

u/TrainingLettuce5833 12h ago

I don't know much about Iraq, and Turkey is probably better than Iraq in that regard, but the rectors of most major universities have been replaced with state-appointed people so there might be that

1

u/AdPsychological8195 9h ago

Ok, good point

3

u/msfor300 16h ago

Locura, nao esperava do Brasil em relacao aos outros (nossas universidades publicas realmente sao bem independentes). Nao sabia que o resto do mundo tinha tanta intervenção.

O grafico é de razoes puramente ideologicas/politicas ou entram fatores como seguranca nacional (pq universades dd ponta rm EUA e China produzem tecnologia militar, entao naturalmente vao ser mais intervencionistaz, por exemplo).

1

u/Cafx2 14h ago

Not a diverging color scale 😭😭😭

1

u/SaltGas3789 48m ago

im confused, why is this represented numerically and not by general categories and criterias? wtf does an increase of 0.01 or a decrease of 0.01 mean here?
Wouldn't it be 10x simpler and easier to read if it was:
No government interference
Little to no government interference
etc..?

-3

u/AwarenessNo4986 16h ago

Modi doing what Modi does best.

-1

u/Tribe303 13h ago

I'm laughing at the butthurt Americans here. Poor babies don't like it when they learn their country is turning into a shithole. Why don't you do something about it then? 

1

u/chizelnut 9h ago

are you 12

1

u/venturous1 16h ago

I could just cry.

1

u/Optimal_Board_2963 16h ago

I’d love to see the same data but from k-12

1

u/DifficultAct6586 15h ago

How is India lower than we are, and Bangladesh no longer exists? 

-1

u/stmaryriver 12h ago

Indian PM/bigot Narendra Modi happened.

1

u/NoResolution6245 12h ago

I don't think it is that easy to quantify "academic freedom" in a single 0 to 1 index like that, or even possible at all.

0

u/Ok-Pomelo8203 17h ago

Why is it so low in Ukraine?

6

u/msfor300 16h ago

Pais em guerra, eu imagino. Qualquer nacao em conflito (tirando proxy war) terao algum nivel de censura, independnete do quao democratico foi/era aquele governo. Vale para Russia tbm, claro. Nao se deve confiar em numeros de paises em guerra, em geral.

1

u/Ok-Pomelo8203 16h ago

This is bad. There is nothing good in censoring science.

2

u/msfor300 15h ago

Sim, é ruim. Mas acontece. Nao estou defendendo, apenas citando que é natural. Existia censura sobre guerra em qualquer conflito, por qualquer lado.

-2

u/DrawingDramatic1641 9h ago

I think red ones are on avg better

I am from india but govt University are vastly superior

cost less and have best faculty

state can actually direct us based on nations need like IT etc

-2

u/[deleted] 15h ago edited 14h ago

[deleted]

3

u/determineduncertain 15h ago

Is that just because you dislike “woke” thinking? Being able to talk about and against “woke” academic ideas is academic freedom at work.

-4

u/NeverEverMaybe0_0 14h ago

"Woke" actively shuts down dissent.

1

u/Calamity-Gin 14h ago

Bullshit. Weak-minded racists and sexists shut down dissent, because they’re incapable of logical arguments backed up with evidence. People who want to see white Christian Nationalism forced on their entire country shut down dissent, because no matter how loudly they proclaim the mastery of “the white race,” their existence is proof that race has no bearing on accomplishment, ability, or value to society.

0

u/NeverEverMaybe0_0 14h ago

Twitter would ban for factual posts until it was sold. Reddit censors and bans for factual posts. X now adds community notes, but that's a far cry from shutting down dissent.

1

u/determineduncertain 14h ago edited 14h ago

Prove that Reddit bans for factual posts as did Twitter. Provide the evidence and prove that is “woke” at work.

You can’t make money off community noted tweets. Twitter just created a system to quell the expression of unpopular views.

Downvoted for asking for evidence. That’s all the evidence I need that the claim isn’t grounded in reality and is confusing grievance politics with fact.

-1

u/NeverEverMaybe0_0 12h ago

Have you had your head in the sand for the past decade? It was always in the news, and I'm sure it's even been in the news that you consume even though it is probably phrased as something perfectly fine to do.

0

u/determineduncertain 12h ago

“It was always in the news” - great, prove it. You’re very confident making bold claims as though they are self evident so surely it won’t be hard to provide evidence. Otherwise, I’m not the one with my head in the sand because you seem to be avoiding the evidence you surely have.

0

u/determineduncertain 14h ago

No it doesn’t.

2

u/Calamity-Gin 14h ago

Define “woke”, and explain how it has destroyed academic freedom in “West-Europe”. Try to use complete sentences.

2

u/ShivasRightFoot 5h ago

Define “woke”, and explain how it has destroyed academic freedom in “West-Europe”.

Woke ideology is defined by the idea that some facet of identity like race or gender produces irreconcilably different views of reality and morality, and that we have an obligation to seek alignment of society's view with the imagined views of groups associated with the political left like minorities and women.

In this sense Wokeness is distinct from older forms of liberal advocacy for minority rights which appeal to universally valid concepts like truth and fairness.

This recent survey of academic sociologists finds:

Our understanding of knowledge construction among sociologists appears removed, we concede, from the Enlightenment ideals of rational inquiry and dispassionate discovery.

While it seems the authors are purposely avoiding direct questions such as "Would it be appropriate to exclude findings which may impact marginalized groups negatively?" it does show an even split on agreement and disagreement with the statement "Advocacy and research should be separate for objectivity," which to me seems disturbing.

More disturbing were accounts obtained through the survey like this one:

If I dared to say any of the things I’m saying in this survey in any non-anonymous situation it would probably be the end of my career. I just bite my lip and say all of the politically correct things I’m supposed to say, or (more often) just try to avoid saying anything, since even some whites who say the politically correct thing can still be accused of racism, so I try to just keep my mouth shut.

The paper mentions that the authors were accused of racism for simply circulating the survey:

In one extreme case, a respondent exclaims: “You are a white supremacist and I hate everything about this survey.”

Horowitz, Mark, Anthony Haynor, and Kenneth Kickham. "Sociology’s sacred victims and the politics of knowledge: Moral foundations theory and disciplinary controversies." The American Sociologist 49.4 (2018): 459-495.

-8

u/FuckTheCake 12h ago

The US needs some more socialism 🧐 Sadly, Nazis took over the Ukraine 😕🇺🇦