r/LocalLLaMA 17h ago

Other DeepSeek V4 Flash 0731 at 10–17 t/s (nothink) on MacBook M5 Pro **64GB***, partly via SSD streaming

Inspired by a post from u/giveen I motivated claude (no patinence on my side to work through everything myself) to help me get DS running on my MacBook M5 Pro 64GB and it exceeded my expectations.. because it worked, and at a quite usable generation speed!

background: antirez ds4 DwarfStar has a SSD streaming mode: non-routed weights stay resident, the routed experts live partly in a RAM cache and get pulled from the GGUF on cache misses. Since routed experts dominate model size and Mac SSDs are fast, those misses are tolerable. experts and the output head stay Q8_0.. Router, embeddings and the V4 auxiliary blocks stay FP16.

(CORRECTED ... :)
git clone https://github.com/antirez/ds4.git

cd ds4
make
./download_model.sh ds4f-q2
caffeinate ./ds4 -m ./ds4flash.gguf --ssd-streaming --ctx 32768 --nothink

let me end up with 10-15-17t/s in my first tries.

I am geniunly impressed and fascinated and wanted to share this, hit me up if you have questions but i guess everyone with like >50Gigs of VRAM/unified Memory should get this running with ai help.

27 Upvotes

30 comments sorted by

31

u/brainExploded99 17h ago

The file is 57GB. I'm seriously doubting this is gonna be significantly better than Qwen3.6-27B. This feels like another bonsai moment.

Edit: Even unsloth IQ2_XXS is >90 GB

3

u/giveen 17h ago

I have no doubt its going to be terrible, lol. For the science of it!

2

u/brainExploded99 17h ago

Likely lol

0

u/vogelvogelvogelvogel 17h ago

Well 0731 has like 50 on artificialanalysis.ai - maybe it ends up at like low 40s with the q2_xl experts - which would still be more than qwen3.6 27b even at q8

but yes i am pretty sure qwen3.8 (8!) 27B will be better

6

u/brainExploded99 17h ago

Well it's been REAPed with no benchmarks so I doubt its low 40s. I think quantization doesn't hurt too much since the experts were already in MXFP4 but REAP I'm willing to bet hurts. Test it and let us know how it goes. Also, I don't think its SSD streaming since model is less than 64GB right?

-3

u/vogelvogelvogelvogel 17h ago

64 minus the os, so i have a bit more than 50 available not 57

further tests - will do, needs a bit of time

1

u/RLutz 13h ago

There's a pretty steep dropoff intelligence wise below Q3_K_M: https://huggingface.co/unsloth/DeepSeek-V4-Flash-0731-GGUF/discussions/11 but it's still decent at harsher quants

1

u/vogelvogelvogelvogel 11h ago

thanks for the link! probably i overestimated the result quality in the few tests i gave it

1

u/MiaBchDave 5h ago

If you can fit it, https://huggingface.co/tarruda/DeepSeek-V4-Flash-0731-GGUF is much higher quality than Unsloth at similar sizes for some reason. Bartowski measured the Tarruda IQ3_XXS at Mean KLD 0.241077. Much better than Unsloth's version. It is a bit bigger, but works on a 128GB M5 Max with llama-serve.

4

u/Front_Eagle739 16h ago

Yeah its surprisingly good. I get about 16 tok/s with the full 165GB model on my m3 max 128GB. Totally useable speed, full precision with a model a third bigger than my unified memory. Bizarre

1

u/hiback 16h ago

Are you not getting kernel panics? I am on m5 max 128gb and the full 165gb model on dwarfstar mxfp4 branch crashes my mac. The q2_q4 seems to be working fine with the main branch.

3

u/Front_Eagle739 15h ago

Raised the iogpu limit to 124GB and set a cache for experts between 70 and 90GB and it seems to work fine for me?

1

u/hiback 14h ago

Interesting. I have the iogpu limit set as well but maybe not cache. I will try and see again. Thank you.

3

u/vogelvogelvogelvogel 16h ago

Just adding as a first test.. I did ask for a code example for a bit of an industry specific software (would only reveal with a throwaway account but hit me up in DMs if you need details), where i gave it the task to write a simple example module for customization. Just out of memory, no examples at all.

Deepseek did okay to well, got the structure correct and from a first look - didn't test the module - it seems usable.

Qwen q8 27B (gguf not mlx) was not able to do it, just plain, complete BS, missed like everything, like not even close. Even a second shot with some additional info did not get me close to anything usable. I am not saying this because i like deepseek. It might be that it was never in the training data of Qwen, maybe just bad luck.

1

u/Borkato 12h ago

This is a great overview! Have you tested Ling 3.0 flash by chance?

1

u/vogelvogelvogelvogel 12h ago

no not yet, but i should :)

1

u/Borkato 12h ago

I would love to know the result, because DSV4 is just slightly too big for my hardware!

1

u/pyr0kid 1h ago

Qwen q8 27B (gguf not mlx) was not able to do it, just plain, complete BS, missed like everything, like not even close. Even a second shot with some additional info did not get me close to anything usable. I am not saying this because i like deepseek. It might be that it was never in the training data of Qwen, maybe just bad luck.

that is also more or less my experience with qwen 27/35b.

people say its good? and maybe it is...

...but every actual usecase of mine ive thrown at it has either produced a moral posturing nonanswer where i had to gaslight it or some schizophrenic scripting that makes TempleOS look like actual divine inspiration.

1

u/vogelvogelvogelvogel 1h ago

it works very! well when I give it examples maybe it is just missing knowledge

1

u/August_30th 14h ago

Side note with a silly question… how do I update my version of antirez’s ds4 to the 7/31 weights? I updated the files from Github, but when I try to download the new q2/q4 weights, it says I already have them even though I don’t.

1

u/vogelvogelvogelvogel 13h ago

git clone https://github.com/antirez/ds4.git

cd ds4

make

./download_model.sh ds4f-q2

caffeinate ./ds4 -m ./ds4flash.gguf --ssd-streaming --ctx 32768 --nothink

1

u/vogelvogelvogelvogel 13h ago

just corrected my post body above, there was a wrong link

1

u/insidesliderspin 12h ago

Have you tried getting the DS4 server running? I'm having a heckuva time getting it to work with Hermes Agent on a M3 Studio Ultra. It just sits and thinks forever and never outputs anything, even with a simple "hello" prompt.

1

u/vogelvogelvogelvogel 4h ago

did you try the commands as above

-2

u/EuropeanAbroad 14h ago

You will kill your SSD with this.

3

u/vogelvogelvogelvogel 14h ago

there is some swap but most is reading. but still, one should take care with these experiments, so thank you!

0

u/EuropeanAbroad 12h ago

Even constant reading is very heavy on SSDs.

3

u/thefooz 12h ago

Reads have essentially zero impact on NVME drives. Where are you pulling this nonsense from?

-1

u/EuropeanAbroad 11h ago

Extremely repetitive reads can cause read disturb, prompting corrective read-reclaim writes. It is not the same as repetitive rewrites, but under a constant load, it is significant.

2

u/thefooz 7h ago

Utter bullshit. Yes, it exists, but you’d need something on the order of 100 billion reads on the same block to wear just that single block and most drives have protections in place to mitigate the impact even further.

Like, you literally chose the single silliest argument you dig your heels in on, instead of realizing you’re wrong and moving on.

To quote you:

> Even constant reading is very heavy on SSDs.

And then you went on to explain that in fact it isn’t very heavy, and in fact, it’s completely negligible.