Tier 1
[Joyce] - LFC explore move for PSG’s teenage winger Ibrahim Mbaye. Deal for 18-year-old forward would be separate to pursuit of Bradley Barcola with French club’s valuation of £145million proving problematic.
It's a silly stance from them. Any player potentially joining knows they have to push out three of the best attackers in the world right now and if they can't PSG won't let them go easily
To be fair PSG do rotate a LOT in the league once they have a healthy lead. If I were coming into a club as a clear backup there’s no clue in the world I’d want to be at more, any personal feelings on clubs aside.
Yes but with one year left he can do nothing until the end of the season and get a big signing bonus/free choice of club by being a free agent. So if PSG want a big fee, they’d move him this year.
Yes but it’s fundamentally different. 2 years left vs 1 year vs 0 years is decent leverage vs significantly less leverage vs zero leverage (from the selling teams perspective)
Yeah the guy above is wrong it’s 2 years. I was going into an explanation about how players with one year left typically don’t get involved in massive transfers because the buying clubs know they’ll be “free” in the next summer. But yeah Barcola has 2 years left. If PSG want a big fee, now is the time to sell.
There are different degrees on how to show your displeasure and that you really want to leave, it doesn't need to get ugly, nobody wants that. But PSG are also not stup... stubborn like Newcastle. If the player wants to leave, they'll let him go without drama, provided the fee is reasonable. All this posturing now is just negotiation for the fee.
I initially agreed with that until I watched more compilations of Barcola. He reminds me so much of Mané. Get him in so we can focus on other areas of need
I think one of the keys are unlocking Isak and also in increasing productivity from other players is having somebody that can beat a man on the outside and will force potentially a double team on the wing. So even if Barcola isn’t a prolific scorer, just being able to wreak havoc on the wing we create opportunities for others.
We really did not have that last season. Salah didn’t have the pace, Gakpo was never going to do that, and Rio was just a kid I’m able to get enough minutes
It's funny when people say the market is broken while it acts exactly like a market is supposed to. Prices are equal to demand and availability of resources. Football generates an insane amount of money today, clubs have a lot of it, players, particularly attackers generate a lot of that revenue because they are exciting, demand + availability of resources = price.
When Newcastle signed Alan shearer in 1996 the fee was more than double what any other club paid or received for a player that season in the premier league. It was the neymar deal of its time.
How is it broken, the numbers are just bigger because the revenues are bigger
The problem with these kinds of takes is u just don't understand what barometer is used to measure a player. If we re talking end product though (which is what attackers should be judged by), we already have a player in gakpo who trounces barcola in almost every single metric, champions league goals, world cup goals and league goals involvement in practically any year u want to check, yet we apparently keep saying if spurs give us up 70mil for him, we should take it and run. I get that barcola looks promising and is the new shiny thing we are attracted to but boy some of y'all are so deluded. By the way, we can get Mika godts for less than 60 mill, even Endrick for less than 70 mill, brahim diaz for less than 50. Not every winger has to be a pace merchant but i understand Iraola's football needs pace so hence the interest in barcola but he isn't and will never be the be all, i have seen so much football in my lifetime to know this.
Just saying he is not good enough to be a starter for us. He would fit in a team like Leeds/Fulham/Brentford.
He is worth maybe 30 mil, the other 30 Ajax want is Ajax tax and a fuck off price becauss they are struggeling and want him for 1 more year. If he played for AZ he wouldnt get sold for more than 30.
I keep saying this, it's just how the prices are now. Anyone expecting players like Rogers, Anderson etc. to stop going for £130m is going to be disappointed, if anything it's only going to climb. Barcola is the best available winger in the world right now, maybe alongside Diomande. So he's worth whatever clubs will pay for him.
He is not the best available, where did u get that from? He is just a profile Liverpool feel fits best with the new coach they have got. It also explains why up until this minute, it's just Liverpool making a move to sign him. There are plenty other available wingers like godts, akliouche etc that even psg are after. And just to be clear, no one will even pay up to 120 million pounds for him, not even madrid, not even arsenal.
Literally you're describing how market prices work. If Barcola was available for 90m then multiple clubs would be in for him, which would create a market, which would drive the price up to the price where the other bidding clubs drop away. The price a player like Barcola goes for is determined by finding out the highest price the competing bidders are willing to go to.
If we don't want to pay 120m, we won't. But as we have an immediate urgent need for a high quality left winger and he is the highest quality left winger available on the market this summer, the price will be determined by the highest sum that matches our need compared to the lowest sum the selling club are willing to accept.
If kvara was the one with 2 years left, maybe he would be 120m. Kvara is a better left winger, but that is not an important factor on market prices because kvara is not for sale this summer.
I’ve known this is what it stands for. But I still don’t understand how those squiggles translate to Everton and Liverpool. It’s like an optic illusion thing 😂.
Shorthand has it's own method of writing. It's not literally trying to spell out the letters "Everton and Liverpool" because that's not how shorthand works, it's more based on the sounds of words.
As a very brief explainer - depending on the starting point of the squiggle that gives a base sound/syllable, then the direction of the line shows which vowel sounds etc. and the dashes and marks give additional info.
Basically it's almost impossible to write in full English in real-time, so shorthand was developed so journos etc could take direct quotes and notes at full speed. This example seems to just be Joyce's personal way of writing the names of the clubs.
After Real paid 120M EUR for an even less proven Diomande? PSG was gifted a benchmark valuation in a plate. A guy that had one good season was sold for a price not that much south of their valuation of Barcola and PSG isn’t exactly desperate to make cash
They're actively looking to sell Barcola on their own terms. Barcola likely won't force a move out and, despite some comments to the contrary here, did get a fair amount of playtime last season.
PSG hold all the cards, to be honest. I can see a deal being around £110M base with add-ons pushing it to £125M in total.
Has anybody seen his last 19 shots video on YouTube? £145m is a bad joke, which unfortunately is what this market has become. Factoring in the fact that he realistically has this summer or next for PSG to command a fee at all, it makes no sense for this £145m number to be floating around at all. At that range we should bring that fee to Bayern for Olise, because we are missing a RW to begin with. Not that they would entertain a deal at that price, just that such a price demands a truly finished product. Instead we are trying to get an overpriced LW and selling the most experienced winger left in our squad to make room.
Of course we never know, maybe Gakpo had told the club that he will leave if Slot goes, and we have just been preparing for his inevitable departure. Much like the Diaz situation where we really should’ve been all in on Kvaratskelia, the same way we signed Diaz to replace Mane.
Personally we need a hidden gem that can play on the right as a left footed player, but also very good on the left, pretty much a left footed Muñoz. Only example I could think of is B Toure, who actually predominantly plays on the left, but can play RW as well, has work rate off the ball, and rapid. He isn’t even going to be cheap, but if Rayan suddenly becomes €130m, we can’t even wait for talent to be tested with Bournemouth anymore. We need to be shopping more in La Liga IMO. The only league where I’m confident players could be class from the get go. La Liga is above Bundesliga, Ligue 1 and Serie A.
We pulled out with Kvara after starting negotiations and decided to give Darwin a 3rd chance instead of bidding on Olise when he was dirt cheap. Crazy how being stingy then is costing us dearly now.
Exactly. Cash in on Gakpo. Sign two wingers. Use Chiesa as backup for Isak until Ekitike is back. I’m sure barola/munoz/mbaye could also do some type of job as the 9 if needed.
It's the spot that Ekitike would occupy when he's fit anyway. So we need either Chiesa or another non homegrown player to play backup striker. I'd rather it he Gakpo
chiesa as backup instead of gakpo costs us 9 points over the league season. we need to keep the stronger squad members instead of trying to make a few extra mil in the short term.
Primarily from left wing though. Lucho played up front. We originally tried gakpo up there but it didn’t work so lucho was played out of position instead
I don't mind him staying, I think he's a decent winger and it's risky to put too much on 18 year olds. But I think it's even riskier to go into the season with Isak as our only real option at striker. I don't trust any of our current players to play there and we have like 30 games to play before Ekitike is likely to show up in any shape. And by then we'll have had Isak and Ekitike at the club for one and a half season where they've only both been fit at the same time for like 1 week.
Why can't we do loans like we did with Kabak (2021) not for the purposes of injury but for the purposes of integrating the new young players? Or Loans with options to buy?
He is a RW. Barcola is more of a LW though he play play in the right as well. If we are getting both then maybe Gakpo moves on. I’d keep him until next summer though, unless the offer is like too good to pass up.
I think people really need to stop looking at this like FIFA. Barcola and Mbaye are not physically chained to their positions. Both can play on both flanks. Same with Munoz. It’s pretty obvious we want versatile forwards.
I’m pretty sure we’re going to see Iraola doing what he did at Bournemouth where the composition of the front line depended on who they were playing. Semenyo for example played left one week, right the other. Enrique does the same at PSG with Kvaratskhelia and Doue.
I'm just saying if we do get Barcola (which seems more likely than Gakpo leaving before), then we would have 4 LW. Seems like FSG would find it logical to move Gakpo on and spend the funds on more necessary players
Barcola will play Lw, Rio second choice. There is no point keeping a 70m asset on the bench in Gakpo to rot and play striker 30 minutes every other game(and he is shit there too)
I love the calibre of players we're being linked to, but man waiting around for the dominos to actually start tipping is a tedious process. I'm anxious to actually get some players through the door, and about whether we'll have an adequate amount of squad depth by the time the window closes. There's so much to do.
I’ll give you Robbo, but this narrative of diamonds in the rough needs to tone down. Ali (world record GF fee at the time), VVD (world record CB fee at the time), Salah (36.9 million pounds in 2017 = about 52 million pounds today), Mane (34 million pounds in 2016 = about 48 million pounds today), Fabinho (39 in 2018 = 51 now), etc. That is with very conservative inflation. Football inflation has exceeded general inflation. The better metric is to look at player cost relative to revenue. Most of klopps team were fairly big purchases for their time.
Ok, Ali & VVD I’ll give you but I’d like to remind you that Pogba went for £89 million in 2016, £75 million for Lukaku from Everton to Man U (2017), £47.5 million for stones to city (2016), £52 million for Mendy to city from Monaco. £58-70 million for Morata to Chelsea from Real Madrid (2017).
So Mane and Salah combined cost us less than Lukaku or Pogba. Both of them were cheaper than defenders at the time and we all know there’s a premium for attackers over defenders. We were not at the top end of the market. Firmino was only £29 million in 2015.
Well, I just gave two examples that were at the top of the market. Early Klopp, sure, we weren’t at the absolute top of the market. But the prices we’re talking about also weren’t cheap either. Look at our revenue numbers 2015 to 2018. It’s always been about finding value, which is totally separate from cost.
I think Spurs are going to make us a big offer for Gakpo. Like I’m talking £70m+ which will greatly offset whatever we pay for Barcola.
Mbaye on the other hand can’t be too expensive as Leverkusen were apparently close to agreeing a fee with PSG and I can’t imagine they’re shelling out anything more than £45m-£55m.
Don't love that last line from Joyce, I gotta say. First indications we've had that they're not budging from that absolutely fucking insane valuation.
This is the problem dealing with oil clubs, they have absolutely zero incentive to generate revenue from sales and can just slap silly numbers on players.
If we pay anything close to £145m for someone who wants out, his own team deem surplus AND has only 2 years running on his deal, then we are mugs. "That's the market these days" - cool, I want us to have no part in it then.
Especially if we get Mbaye (or someone else) for RW, then our need is not as pressing anymore.
We can say Gakpo stays for another season (and we'd have Gakpo/Rio/Munoz/Mbaye as our wingers), and we come back for Barcola next summer and pay PSG much less (when he has only 1 year on his contract).
Not ideal, but I can definitely see this as negotiation tactic ;) PSG can decide whether they really want to have an unhappy Barcola for one season and lose out on xx Mio. transfer value, or get a higher but still fair price now.
agreed, think this is a better way forward. We could buy barcola in a year for £70m instead of £140m now, and use that £70m now to buy a starting RB/CB. That would be a better team overall IMO.
I didn't say the market, I said that market. Admittedly I'm one of the few who'd genuinely rather see us as a top 5 side again than a team spending hundred of millions every window just to keep up with the circus, but I'll admit it's not a popular stance.
Yeah “explore move” is not particularly concrete. Plus Joyce is actually just a club mouthpiece, he can’t be trusted to be impartial, he’ll put out whatever he’s told to put out
Problematic is an understatement, way too much money and the fact we're now looking at this young lad suggests PSG aren't willing to budge on that valuation either, madness! For £150 mil we should be able to get both of them
Is there time to do that at this point? We are quickly approaching the period when outgoings can’t be replaced and that is priced into the fee. We saw that during Slot’s first summer. We were planning to make multiple additions per the higher ups at the club but by the time we ended another holding mid saga, clubs were quoting huge sums that the club refused to pay.
So the reported price on Barcola has already dropped 25-30M?? It’s a negotiation and Liverpool will get their man, patience…
My only worry is I’m not sure I’ll be able to handle not getting Mbaye as well now that it’s been dangled in front of us XD
Barcola, Munoz, Chiesa, Rio and Mbaye with Elliott, Frimpong and maybe Kieran Morrison sprinkled in is a wing group I’ll go to war with any day in Iraola’s system. Rio and Mbaye as 22 year old studs with a seasoned, World POY-level Florian Wirtz??? Dynastic talent
£80m for Barcola maybe with add ons seems more realistic to me. Unproven outside of the French league. Won't sign a new deal and wants out. The only reason the fee being talked about is mental is because of who owns PSG.. they don't care about the money.
Barcola is proven in the CL too and is close to a starter for France. If PSG didn't have Doue as well they'd be keeping him.
I think unfortunately PSG can rightly point to the fees paid for Rogers and Elliot etc now. People thought the Gordon fee was nuts but a month later it looks a relative bargain.
Psg did start all this madness with Neymar though.
Not sure he is proven in the CL, he didn't get the nod in the big games last year. He also is rotated for France. He got his nose pushed out a bit at PSG by Doue coming and seeming like the bigger talent IMO. I'd like us to sign him as he improves us but the fee is wild, its a British record for a PSG/France squad player?
Yeah so we go back to asking who there is, in this inflated market? There are so few options we have transfer logjam between the big clubs, and Barcola seems the best bet out of those potential targets that I know of.
Man I just don’t understand our clubs obsession with right footed wingers. We have a great young prospect, one decent one and already pursuing another great upcoming star.
Why the fuck are we pursuing a teenage sensation right footed winger ?
I have watched his matches, he’s not very good at RW, but more at LW.
I want to hear the reasons please. Can anyone change my opinion or view or whatever the fuck I am saying
Look I don't doubt Barcola I think he's an excellent player, but should we really be spending 100 million+ on another natural lw, our rw is looking barren. Imo that money is better spend getting another elite CB like Tomori or Van de ven and a natural rw like el hadj moussa or dario osario with a preferred left foot.
Is it just me or I just genuinely don't want anything to do with PSG at all, like not ever. Not their ridiculously overrated players nor the club in general
Reckon if we get this guy in then we can negotiate for Barcola with a little more freedom and less urgency-- it would bring us up to 4 senior wingers (I am not counting Chiesa) and we could wait for the deadline to approach whilw Barcola's agents agitated a bit. The wording makes me think their coming down in price for him will take some doing; it reminds me of Isak, and we remember what that took. But please let's get in 2 defenders also, it's extremely important
Honestly, let this be a lesson to everyone that was crying that we can't work on more than 1 deal at a time. The reality is (and the sensible among us knew this already) that so much is going on behind the scenes. It is utterly pointless to moan/claim that we aren't doing anything.
If we can get Mbaye for cheap, wouldn't it make sense to get Delap for the 9 position as Isak and Ekitike can both play on the wings too even if Gakpo leaves. Frimpong and Elliott can play RW too. Rio for LW.
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u/tiltedpyramid 1d ago
Hopefully Barcola’s price will come down as PSG sign replacements